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  1. #1
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    Default California- "Firefighters let house burn" The real story.

    Since this story made front page here at Firehouse and this was in my home town, I need to share this information about the Yorba Linda, Orange County Fire story.

    First, the Reporting Party (RP) called from a cell phone delaying the response.
    A typical response time of six munites in acceptable in that area from time of dispatch to units going onscene.

    Second, I have contacted a source there confirming the fire was well involved before the first units went onscene and then the Firefighters went into a defensive attack.

    Lastly- I have worked with Fire Captain Dan Young and will back him just like anyone of you in here. I wasnt there, but I find it hard to believe based on his past charactor that any sort of negative comment was made towards the owner of the home.

    Here is an account from an OCFA employee-


    Hi there, I work for OCFA as a FFPM. Maybe a can shed to light a few facts to set the record straight. It is obvious that many of the statements being made are a misrepresentation of what took place.

    First of all, OCFA E53 was first onscene followed by M32 and E32 followed ANA E10 and T8. The guy who said that ANA was first onscene and E53 was on a medical aid is wrong and should be discredited. The statement that ANA would not go interior is BS.

    E53 and M32 went interior right away. This fire was fought as an interior fire by units onscene all the way to the point was parts of the roof started to fail. Then the fire went defensive. This fire was fought for over 1/2 hours before everybody was pulled from the building. I guess whoever LF170 works for must allow there firefighters to stay in a building that is going to cave in?

    The house was well involved on arrival including the garage which was full of boxes and household items because the owner just moved in a week or so before. Three vehicles in the driveway were also fully involved on arrival. In addition the fire was already extended into the 2nd floor and roof. Think about how long this was burning for all three cars in the driveway to also be fully involved in addition to his house!

    The owners were complaining that it took us over twenty minutes to arrive. The owner did not know the address to their own house when they called 911 on the cell phone. The CHP struggled with the call. When we were notified, it took 6 minutes for us to arrive. This fire had a long head start. We are not talking about a room and contents fire or a simple attic fire.

    The accusation that we would not fight a fire because the resident is employed by a "non union" firefighter is nuts. I can assure you that Captain Young would never make such stupid comments or commit the acts that he was accused of.

    The guys felt bad for a fellow firefighter who lost his house. However his house was already gone when the first units arrived. Trust me fellow firefighters when I say that nobody would not fight a fire because "he works for Vernon". Heck, there are several "non union fire departments" in OC including Santa Ana, Costa Mesa and Fountain Valley.

    Before some guys talk thru their asses, talk with some of the OCFA guys that were there. Thanks, I am off my soup box!

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    Default But you don't understand Bou..

    The truth just isnt exciting enough. I read the original story and it made me want to puke. Not because of the firefighters but because of the crap they let get printed in the paper.
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    Thanks for the update Bou. I knew there was very little truth to it. Some of us out here do not believe everything we read. Thanks to the OCFD for doing all they could given the circumstances. From the account you posted, it sounds like they did everything they could.

    take care and stay safe everyone.

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    http://www.ocfa.org/innerpage/valor.htm

    For those of us who worked with Dan Young the past 30 years know exactly what level of professionalism he exudes.

    This homeowner is trying to make an issue where there is none. An outside investigation will reveal her and her hubby for being nutcases.
    Last edited by scfire86; 04-02-2006 at 09:54 PM.
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    So this guy actually believes that someone let his house burn because he is a non-union firefighter?
    A'int No Rocket Scientist's in The Firehall

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    I'm sure that makes him feel better than saying he let his own house burn down because he's a dope.

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    3 sides to all stories. His side, their side, and (somewhere near the middle) the truth. Although, the original does sound a little too far off to be realistic.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42
    3 sides to all stories. His side, their side, and (somewhere near the middle) the truth. Although, the original does sound a little too far off to be realistic.
    Bonesy. Those of us who know this Captain know him to not have a deceitful bone in his body.

    If you saw the TV interview with this woman you'd know immediately she's full of it.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke20286
    So this guy actually believes that someone let his house burn because he is a non-union firefighter?
    I am not saying that was the case here...but after hearing about a department watching someone's house burn down becuase they hadn't paid ahead of time... well.. I wouldn't have doubted it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by S8ER95Z
    I am not saying that was the case here...but after hearing about a department watching someone's house burn down becuase they hadn't paid ahead of time... well.. I wouldn't have doubted it.
    Maybe things are a bit different in Two Mules, Illinois. But us city folks don't have subscription departments. When something is on fire, we put it out.

    You are now free to doubt this story.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by S8ER95Z
    I am not saying that was the case here...but after hearing about a department watching someone's house burn down becuase they hadn't paid ahead of time... well.. I wouldn't have doubted it.
    Well I would indeed doubt it, there is no way I can believe that any IAFF local members would for a minute consider doing something like that just because either someone was non-union or a member of another union
    A'int No Rocket Scientist's in The Firehall

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    I'm not trying to start anything here, but I will ask simply because I don't know...Is there such a thing as paid fire protection in some regions? The reason that I ask is that during a fundraiser a few years ago, one of the people in our area asked if it was required that they donate in order to get fire protection. We obviously said "NO", and she proceeded to tell us that her son lived somewhere in California, and was required to pay an annual fee for fire service. I'm from Smalltown, Iowa, and had never heard of this. Not surprising, huh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark0502f
    I'm not trying to start anything here, but I will ask simply because I don't know...Is there such a thing as paid fire protection in some regions? The reason that I ask is that during a fundraiser a few years ago, one of the people in our area asked if it was required that they donate in order to get fire protection. We obviously said "NO", and she proceeded to tell us that her son lived somewhere in California, and was required to pay an annual fee for fire service. I'm from Smalltown, Iowa, and had never heard of this. Not surprising, huh?
    Yes. That's what SC is talking about when he referred to a 'subscription' department.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALFFBOU
    Since this story made front page here at Firehouse and this was in my home town, I need to share this information about the Yorba Linda, Orange County Fire story.

    First, the Reporting Party (RP) called from a cell phone delaying the response.
    A typical response time of six munites in acceptable in that area from time of dispatch to units going onscene.

    Second, I have contacted a source there confirming the fire was well involved before the first units went onscene and then the Firefighters went into a defensive attack.

    Lastly- I have worked with Fire Captain Dan Young and will back him just like anyone of you in here. I wasnt there, but I find it hard to believe based on his past charactor that any sort of negative comment was made towards the owner of the home.

    Here is an account from an OCFA employee-


    Hi there, I work for OCFA as a FFPM. Maybe a can shed to light a few facts to set the record straight. It is obvious that many of the statements being made are a misrepresentation of what took place.

    First of all, OCFA E53 was first onscene followed by M32 and E32 followed ANA E10 and T8. The guy who said that ANA was first onscene and E53 was on a medical aid is wrong and should be discredited. The statement that ANA would not go interior is BS.

    E53 and M32 went interior right away. This fire was fought as an interior fire by units onscene all the way to the point was parts of the roof started to fail. Then the fire went defensive. This fire was fought for over 1/2 hours before everybody was pulled from the building. I guess whoever LF170 works for must allow there firefighters to stay in a building that is going to cave in?

    The house was well involved on arrival including the garage which was full of boxes and household items because the owner just moved in a week or so before. Three vehicles in the driveway were also fully involved on arrival. In addition the fire was already extended into the 2nd floor and roof. Think about how long this was burning for all three cars in the driveway to also be fully involved in addition to his house!

    The owners were complaining that it took us over twenty minutes to arrive. The owner did not know the address to their own house when they called 911 on the cell phone. The CHP struggled with the call. When we were notified, it took 6 minutes for us to arrive. This fire had a long head start. We are not talking about a room and contents fire or a simple attic fire.

    The accusation that we would not fight a fire because the resident is employed by a "non union" firefighter is nuts. I can assure you that Captain Young would never make such stupid comments or commit the acts that he was accused of.

    The guys felt bad for a fellow firefighter who lost his house. However his house was already gone when the first units arrived. Trust me fellow firefighters when I say that nobody would not fight a fire because "he works for Vernon". Heck, there are several "non union fire departments" in OC including Santa Ana, Costa Mesa and Fountain Valley.

    Before some guys talk thru their asses, talk with some of the OCFA guys that were there. Thanks, I am off my soup box!
    To any one who thinks they know what happened that night, were you there? I was, it was our home that was destroyed. I've been a firefighter for 15yrs, and while I don't claim to be an expert, I know what should be happening on a fire call. And for those skeptics out there ask yourself this, if your home was on fire would you know what units were there, what they were doing, and if things were going well or if there was something seriously wrong with the response? This is our job and most of you would know and see what was happening, as I did that night. So here is the quick down and dirty of what happened that night. Our first 911 calls did go to the CHP which added a delay, but we have never blamed the Ocfa for that. Anaheim E10 was the first unit there, they dry layed from the hydrant to the fire and did nothing, just sat there and watched. Ocfa E53 was next about 3-5 minutes later, why I don't know(it was there 1st in) they did nothing except engage my wife in a petty political debate about union vs non-union. Ocfa E32 and M32 were next, they did nothing. These units started arriving around 10:22, and at that time the vehicles were not involved, the 2nd story was not involved, it was a routine garage fire. The first water went of the fire around 10:58. Our home burned for over three hours with these crews doing little to stop it. The result was that our home was totally destroyed. Our home need not have been totally lost but Anaheim and Ocfa's failure to act took what should have been a simple garage fire and made it into a total loss fire. From very early on we have been asking for an independant inquiry into what happened that night, but the Ocfa refuses to order one. Instead they did an administrative review of this incedent which, big surprise, cleared them of any wrong doing. All we are asking for is that some one who has nothing to gain and nothing to lose from the truth coming out, to look into the events of that night, but as I have said the Ocfa will not allow it. Our incedent is not an isolated one though, these same crews have been involved in quite a few questionable calls lately. They had a rekindle that totally destroyed a home. It was initially stopped at one bedroom, 12hrs later the rekindle took the rest of the home. While responding to an accident, an engine hit a parked tow truck, injuring the tow truck driver. They had another garage fire that turned into a total loss fire. And the list goes on and on. These incendents don't represent the Ocfa as a whole or the fire service, but something is definitely wrong in Yorba Linda, and there needs to be some one or some agency tasked to look into these things. Last, we don't expect anyone to believe us just because we are making these allegations, all we ask is that you wait until the truth comes out, and it will, before passing judgment. But I believe that when the whole truth, which is much bigger than just our incedent emerges, people will be horrified at what these Ocfa crews have been up to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buster11
    To any one who thinks they know what happened that night, were you there?
    Hey Buster,

    I have two words for you.

    Bovine Scatology.

    You leave out a couple of convenient facts.

    First. None of the dispatch records back up the accusations you are making. In fact they state just the opposite of onscene times for the units you disparage. I guess somehow we're supposed to believe those have been altered. Quick....lookeee over there, a lone gunman behind a grassy knoll.

    Second. Both of the firefighters on M32 were burned and were treated accordingly as a result of trying to put the fire out.

    Third. We're supposed to believe that a fire crew got into a political ****ing contest with your wife because they noticed a teeny tiny non reflective decal on your car in the middle of the night with fire blowing of almost every window in the strucure.

    Fourth. The captain whose name you are smearing is known within the fire community as being of impeccable character and integrity. And for those of us who know him personally (which I have for over 20 years) know him to be an individual who loathes politics. I'm not sure he's even registered to vote.

    Fifth. Every investigation that has been performed internally (by mgmt. who btw loathes our fire union board) refutes every accusation you are making about this individual and the crews involved.

    Sixth. The investigation being done by an outside party has tried with no success to interview you and your wife regarding this incident and has yet to do so because of your unavailability even though you manage to have time for the local TV and news rag reporters.

    There are other issues that keep surfacing. Like the insured value of your home versus its actual value and that the insurance company is balking on paying out. But since that's just a rumor I'll just treat it as such until the investigation being ordered by the OC Board of Supervisors becomes public.

    Give up the mud slinging accusations. The only person you will embarass is you and your family.
    Last edited by scfire86; 06-03-2006 at 05:47 PM.
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    In response to your message, of course Ocfa mgmt is going to refute all allegations, that's why we want and independant inquiry! The only independant investigation occuring is into the allegations of the comments made by one of your captains. To date there has been no independant investigation started into the incendent. We have met with the investigator twice and fully cooperated with him in regards to those comments. But you are wrong on any one trying to contact as as to an independant inquiry into what happened that night. What does Ocfa have to fear if the truth is what they claim? Order an independant inquiry and let the truth fall where it may, or is truth not in your vocabulary. Again, wait until all of the truth comes out, because it is so much more invloved than just our fire. You will be horrified and ashamed of what these people have been up to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buster11
    In response to your message, of course Ocfa mgmt is going to refute all allegations, that's why we want and independant inquiry! The only independant investigation occuring is into the allegations of the comments made by one of your captains. To date there has been no independant investigation started into the incendent. We have met with the investigator twice and fully cooperated with him in regards to those comments. But you are wrong on any one trying to contact as as to an independant inquiry into what happened that night. What does Ocfa have to fear if the truth is what they claim? Order an independant inquiry and let the truth fall where it may, or is truth not in your vocabulary. Again, wait until all of the truth comes out, because it is so much more invloved than just our fire. You will be horrified and ashamed of what these people have been up to.
    Here's an idea...

    You want an independent inquiry?

    Have your insurance company come up with the money to do so; after all, they are paying for the losses incurred.

    If they refuse, then pay for it yourself. If the allegations you say are true are actually true, then you can sue the OCFA.

    Personally... coming onto the board two full months after the fire and the alleged incident of malfeasance of duty reeks of something that is just not right...
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo
    Personally... coming onto the board two full months after the fire and the alleged incident of malfeasance of duty reeks of something that is just not right...
    Gonz. You are absolutely on track. He and his wife have made outrageous accusations. Now he is claiming collusion by OCFA mgmt with someone mgmt. would like nothing more to take down. They didn't get the answers they wanted, the insurance company is balking on the payout so they're going after the only deep pocket left. Somehow the taxpayers should pay for an investigation because of their delirium. And to reinforce your point. This fire occurred last December.

    He mentions his 15 years on the job as though that gives him credibility. He fails to mention his city has a population of around a whopping 150 residents. The captain he is trashing has been with OCFA for over 30 years. Has an impeccable reputation and has worked in some of the busiest fire houses in our department. To put it bluntly, he's forgotten more than this knucklehead will ever know.
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    We have been asking for an independant inquiry of this incedent since dec. This was through our ocfa boardmember for Yorba Linda and the ocfa itself. The ocfa has steadfastly refused. We went to the board only after the ocfa refused to order such an inquiry. We also have paid for independant investigators to look at our fire for both the cause, and how it spread and was fought. The results of these investigations are in direct opposition to what the Ocfa is claiming. As to our insurance company, they have conducted their own investigation and as a result have filed a claim against the Ocfa for the full amount of the loss. Their claim is based on that they believe this was a malicious act, and failed to do the job that they were paid to do. This is unheard of, and doesn't bode well for the Ocfa. As to our insurance company balking at paying, that is absolutely false, they have been great. The reason that our home is still standing is that once an independant inquiry is completed, the state, and the feds will start their investigations into these allegations and these crews, they are just waiting to see how deep this goes. And we will fully cooperate with these agencies to get to the truth. And one last response to scfire86, if you cared to look at our home, you'll see that most of the windows are still intact, along with quite a bit of the structure. Your ignorance obviously knows no bounds because the things you claim are just the failings of a feeble mind, not the facts as you claim.

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    And your accusations are nothing more than wacked out conspiracy theory.

    I'm sure the Feds are going to spend thousands of tax dollars to investigate a structure fire in a single family dwelling.

    Give it up. Nothing has happened in the manner you state. And nothing is happening. The rest of your post about the insurance company suing is nothing more than wishful thinking.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Again your ignorance shines brightly, our insurance company has filed a claim with the county for the total loss of the fire. And as far as wasting taxpayer dollars the ocfa union had no problem wasting millions of taxpayer dollars to put measure d on the ballot, even though there was no support for it.(only 21% voted for it) And when the state and fed hammers come down what will you say then? Its a conspiracy to get these guys? I don't think so, there are bad apples everywhere you look, unfortunately for us they congregate in Yorba Linda. The truth will come out, and when it does these crews will have done more damage to the Ocfa than anything I could ever dream up. Which is truly sad because these people don't represent what the Ocfa stands for, or the fire service for that matter. The Ocfa is a great, and well trained department with motivated firefighters, I just wish some of them would make it to my area.

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    Wait a minute...um, after a 20 minute delay in arriving on scene and a 36 minute delay in getting water on the fire, most of the windows are intact along with most of the structure? From a fire big enough to involve exposed vehicles?

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    I live on the other side of the continent and even I think this jamoke is full of it. None of his story makes any sense. He and his insurance company are clearly just looking for a way to get someone else to pay for it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmatian190
    Wait a minute...um, after a 20 minute delay in arriving on scene and a 36 minute delay in getting water on the fire, most of the windows are intact along with most of the structure? From a fire big enough to involve exposed vehicles?
    Hahahaha. Nice catch.
    Last edited by nmfire; 06-03-2006 at 08:55 PM.
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    This caught my eye as well, Dal...
    Our home burned for over three hours with these crews doing little to stop it. The result was that our home was totally destroyed. Our home need not have been totally lost but Anaheim and Ocfa's failure to act took what should have been a simple garage fire and made it into a total loss fire.
    then they went on to say...
    And one last response to scfire86, if you cared to look at our home, you'll see that most of the windows are still intact, along with quite a bit of the structure.
    The house burned for three hours with "little" done to stop it, yet "most" of the windows are intact, along with quite a bit of the structure?

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    Well Buster. Since you claim a lawsuit has been filed, how about posting the docket number. If it was filed in OC we should be able to see it online at:

    http://www.occourts.org/

    The rest of your post is the usual scurrilous nonsense. Measure D was rejected by the voters but there is far more to it than you state.

    And others have already started to point out the inconsistencies in your statements.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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