Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 35
  1. #1
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    19

    Default Residential and commercial garage doors

    I was reading a review of a call in California where an interior attack crew at a residential structure fire made entry through the garage door (it was open when they got there) and they were trapped when it closed behind them.

    You can find the full review here:
    http://www.firefloor.com/WebResources.htm
    Interior attack crew trapped by a garage door closing behind them.

    Is there anybody out there with any suggestions or information on ways to ensure garage doors remain open. (all types)
    This specific door was a single panel but I would be interested in hearing about different techniques to prevent different types of doors from closing.

    Any input on breaching different types of garage doors would be helpful as well.
    thanks


  2. #2
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,672

    Default

    Folding A ladder.
    Vise grips on the tracks.
    Pike pole/hook wedged in.


    Never trust a garage door.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  3. #3
    Forum Member fireman4949's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    2,323

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by firefloor
    I was reading a review of a call in California where an interior attack crew at a residential structure fire made entry through the garage door (it was open when they got there) and they were trapped when it closed behind them.

    You can find the full review here:
    http://www.firefloor.com/WebResources.htm
    Interior attack crew trapped by a garage door closing behind them.

    Is there anybody out there with any suggestions or information on ways to ensure garage doors remain open. (all types)
    This specific door was a single panel but I would be interested in hearing about different techniques to prevent different types of doors from closing.

    Any input on breaching different types of garage doors would be helpful as well.
    thanks
    For a single panel, flip-up door, wedging a pike pole from the ground to the front edge of the door (tip of pike pointing toward inside of garage, bottom of pike pointing toward drive) works very well.
    For a sectional door, clamp a pair of Vice Grips to the channel just below the bottom roller of the open door.




    Kevin
    Fire Lieutenant/E.M.T.
    IAFF Local 2339
    K of C 4th Degree
    "LEATHER FOREVER"
    Member I.A.C.O.J.
    http://www.tfdfire.com/
    "Fir na tine"

  4. #4
    Forum Member fireman4949's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    2,323

    Default

    Ha! Bones beat me to it!




    Kevin
    Fire Lieutenant/E.M.T.
    IAFF Local 2339
    K of C 4th Degree
    "LEATHER FOREVER"
    Member I.A.C.O.J.
    http://www.tfdfire.com/
    "Fir na tine"

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    19

    Smile thnaks

    Thanks for the input

  6. #6
    Forum Member len1582's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    N.J.
    Posts
    1,392

    Default

    If it's going to be an extended operation assign someone to make sure it stays open. Tools can slip, I've seen it happen and a door came down on two guys heads. The door was being held open with a pike pole. As the attack crew advanced the line it hit against the pike pole dislodging it as another crew was moving in. The only good thing about it hitting the guys going in is that prevented it from closing on the guys inside.

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    You can also pull the release latch on the door if it is equipped with an automatic opener as an additional level of safety.

  8. #8
    Forum Member PattyV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,272

    Default

    You can also pull the release latch on the door if it is equipped with an automatic opener as an additional level of safety.
    Not a fire related story but it might be worth keeping in mind. On the job site that i am working at with my brother to pay for uni we keep our tools in the persons garage. The first day the lady was there to open and close the garage door for us. On the second day she left to pick her son up from daycare. I searched for 10 minutes to find a button to close the garage door. Then i saw the cord dangling from near the motor. My old garage door used to have a cord that looked very similar to open and close it, this one however was a release latch and not a switch. Almost took my brother out when the door went crashing towards the ground.
    Lesson: look for the bloody small inconspicous switch located behind fridge before you go pulling any dangly things.
    I think the blow from one of those things would be enough to put a plastic helmet out of action (and probably compromise the integrity of the leathers without you knowing but thats a whole nother story)
    "There are only two things that i know are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And im not so sure about the former."

    For all the life of me, i cant see a firefighter going to hell. At least not for very long. We would end up putting out all the fires and annoying the devil too much.

  9. #9
    Forum Member Haweater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    THE Rock, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    141

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    You can also pull the release latch on the door if it is equipped with an automatic opener as an additional level of safety.
    Actually, if there is a remote opener, NOT pulling the release, pulling the plug is the best way to fix the door. On 90% of openers I've seen, no power to the door opener and the door's not going anywhere.... unless you pull the release latch that is.

  10. #10
    Forum Member Haweater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    THE Rock, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    141

    Default

    By the way, check the tracks the rollers travel in. Many have holes at different points in the path, a caribeener (how the hell do you spell that?) through the hole cannot fall out as pike poles and vice grips can be bumped.
    Cheers,
    Gord

  11. #11
    Forum Member fireman4949's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    2,323

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haweater
    Actually, if there is a remote opener, NOT pulling the release, pulling the plug is the best way to fix the door. On 90% of openers I've seen, no power to the door opener and the door's not going anywhere.... unless you pull the release latch that is.
    I agree completely.
    The traveler that is attached to chain (or belt, or worm drive depending upon the type of opener), will not allow the door to close unless the opener itself is activated. Don't release the traveler latch!

    One thing to consider though, is belt drive openers will fail much faster than other types because the belt is much more susceptible to failure from high heat conditions than the other types of drive mechanisms. Assume all openers will fail and chock ANY garage door!

    Another hazard is the stored energy in the doors springs...Especially the overhead torsion springs of sectional door. If the lift cables on the sides of the door break, or are cut, or if the spring head-rail fails, the results can be lethal. This is most critical if the door is in the closed position because that is when the greatest amount of spring tension is applied.
    The side tension springs of a one-piece door are dangerous as well. As above, the most tension is also applied to these springs when the door is closed.




    Kevin
    Fire Lieutenant/E.M.T.
    IAFF Local 2339
    K of C 4th Degree
    "LEATHER FOREVER"
    Member I.A.C.O.J.
    http://www.tfdfire.com/
    "Fir na tine"

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fireman4949
    I agree completely.
    The traveler that is attached to chain (or belt, or worm drive depending upon the type of opener), will not allow the door to close unless the opener itself is activated. Don't release the traveler latch!

    One thing to consider though, is belt drive openers will fail much faster than other types because the belt is much more susceptible to failure from high heat conditions than the other types of drive mechanisms. Assume all openers will fail and chock ANY garage door!

    Another hazard is the stored energy in the doors springs...Especially the overhead torsion springs of sectional door. If the lift cables on the sides of the door break, or are cut, or if the spring head-rail fails, the results can be lethal. This is most critical if the door is in the closed position because that is when the greatest amount of spring tension is applied.
    The side tension springs of a one-piece door are dangerous as well. As above, the most tension is also applied to these springs when the door is closed.




    Kevin
    Exactly.

    You will notice that my post said ADDITIONAL level of safety. You will also notice that I did not say to do this first.

    What I do know is that touching any type of switch or electrical device in a fire situation is not a good idea.

    I also know that the overhead door can operate, up or down, in a fire situation. If you do not want to touch wires or switches, blocking the door and THEN pulling the release is the single safest way to make sure the door does not operate.

    PS: You guys kill me with this rabid rush to show I am wrong.

  13. #13
    Forum Member Lewiston2FF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    Niagara Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    1,924

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    PS: You guys kill me with this rabid rush to show I am wrong.
    You're wrong about us rushing to show you are wrong and I can prove it!


    I would think that the last thing you would want to put in the door would be a hook or other tool, someone needs a hook and walks up and takes the one holding the door open. Whats the solution? I dont know. I like the A frame ladder idea.
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Firefighter
    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    813

    Talking Just another idea, that has worked......

    Just recently, we had a fire in a large vehicle maintenance facility..... I saw something awesome.........
    Our Probie Firefighter took a 5 ton military vehicle tire and laid it on its side, tire wheel and all. When one of the C.O.s from another Engine came up and asked him what he was doing, he calmly answered that he was stopping the huge door from closing behind the entry team......... the look on the Captain' s face was priceless. I found it really funny though since I had just talked about it with my crew about a week before the fire happened.
    Just goes to show that the only limits we have are what we can dream up or think up.
    "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

    Life on the Truck (Quint) is good.....

    Eat til you're sleepy..... Sleep til you're hungry..... And repeat.....

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    19

    Arrow How can different garage doors be breached?

    Now that there is some interest in this subject can I go further and ask what tools and techniques have proven effective in breaching different types of garage doors? Commercial panels, continuous, residential single panel and sectional? etc, etc...

    Is it faster to cut or force? Is manpower an issue and level of exersion etc..?

  16. #16
    Forum Member PattyV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,272

    Default

    With the old non automatic lock up garage doors two small cuts either side of the lock will do the trick and you can pull the door up normally once that is done.
    The small cuts take out the locking arms that protrude from either side. The cuts should be about a foot long because some of them have the locking device turned on its side and the arms can be at different levels.
    I got to run so thats all for now.
    "There are only two things that i know are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And im not so sure about the former."

    For all the life of me, i cant see a firefighter going to hell. At least not for very long. We would end up putting out all the fires and annoying the devil too much.

  17. #17
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,672

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewiston2Capt
    You're wrong about us rushing to show you are wrong and I can prove it!


    I would think that the last thing you would want to put in the door would be a hook or other tool, someone needs a hook and walks up and takes the one holding the door open. Whats the solution? I dont know. I like the A frame ladder idea.
    That would be why you leave someone at the door opening, to keep it open. Sounds like a good job for the Chief!
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  18. #18
    Forum Member Lewiston2FF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    Niagara Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    1,924

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42
    That would be why you leave someone at the door opening, to keep it open. Sounds like a good job for the Chief!
    I thought that at first too. But as frequently happens with our fires, manpower is tight, and the chief likes to roam (Training issue, I know) so assigning someone is not the best option for us. Although the younger FFs might be good for this it keeps 'em from bothering me!
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Firefighter
    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

  19. #19
    Forum Member TCFire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Lockport, New York
    Posts
    417

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewiston2Capt
    , and the chief likes to roam (Training issue, I know) .
    I always tell our guys that the 'mobile command post' is now in effect.
    In Arduis Fidelis
    Faithful in Adversity

  20. #20
    Forum Member fireman4949's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Posts
    2,323

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewiston2Capt
    You're wrong about us rushing to show you are wrong and I can prove it!


    I would think that the last thing you would want to put in the door would be a hook or other tool, someone needs a hook and walks up and takes the one holding the door open. Whats the solution? I dont know. I like the A frame ladder idea.
    The solution is to train everyone that the door chock (whatever form is used) is NOT to be removed. It is the responsibility of the officers to make certain their crews know, understand and follow policies and procedures...Prior to the actual incident occuring. Training is the key.

    BTW, we don't carry A-frame ladders on any of our units. I wish we did, there are many times they would come in quite handy.
    Fire Lieutenant/E.M.T.
    IAFF Local 2339
    K of C 4th Degree
    "LEATHER FOREVER"
    Member I.A.C.O.J.
    http://www.tfdfire.com/
    "Fir na tine"

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. World Of Fire Report: 02-12-06
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-15-2006, 10:51 PM
  2. World Of Fire Report: 05-17-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-18-2005, 08:53 AM
  3. World Of Fire Report: 07-02-04
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-30-2004, 10:28 AM
  4. World Of Fire Report: 06-17-04
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-18-2004, 08:10 AM
  5. World Of Fire Report: 03-13-04
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-14-2004, 09:41 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts