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  1. #1
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    Post Laking FDNY Truck Maintenance

    Stephen Cassidy , said the FDNY maintenance program is a " disaster " . He said mechanics spend only two and a half hours per truck to get equipment back in service. A bronx ladder company was forced to use a 17 year old truck with bald tires & lights hanging by wires.The fire department brass defended itself, chief of operations Sal Cassano said we do a thorough , bumper-to-bumper safety check on a rig or we would'nt release that rig untill it was safe." The department also said it would be getting 12 new tower ladders & 8 new 100ft rear mount ladders in the next 6 - 7 months from " Seagrave to upgrade it's older fleet!..
    Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 04-04-2006 at 10:28 PM.


  2. #2
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    This was posted on UFA FDNY web site:

    For Immediate Release: April 4, 2006

    The State of FDNY Fire Trucks….JALOPIES
    New York City Firefighters are counted on by millions of New Yorkers to be their safety net in case of an emergency, but union leaders say New Yorkers are at greater risk due to the failure of basic FDNY equipment, including trucks that firefighters call Jalopies.

    “Clearly this is an issue of mismanagement by the Fire Department,” said Steve Cassidy UFA President. “Members of the greatest fire department in the world should not be driving around New York in Jalopies with equipment that fails when life is on the line.”

    Cassidy compared the regular maintenance checklist of an FDNY fire truck to that of a New York City Sanitation Truck. In a head-to-head mechanical check, a garbage truck gets a strenuous review that is 7.5 times more rigorous than for a life saving fire truck.

    The preventive maintenance checklist for New York City fire trucks are: 25 check list items for an FDNY Engine Company; 26 check list items for a Ladder Company; with FDNY provisional employee mechanics, encouraged to take no longer than 2 ? hours before getting an FDNY rig back out into the field.

    By comparison, the checklist for a New York City Department of Sanitation garbage truck is 189 checkpoints with a safety review by a Sanitation mechanics regularly taking 8 hours to fully inspect.

    “FDNY mechanics do not want to be in this position, but are mandated by management to churn these rigs back out into the field faster than time allows for them to be properly inspected,” said Mr. Cassidy. “These employees know that if they do not comply they can and will be fired by the FDNY.”

    This type of risk management utilized by the FDNY’s Fleet Services division compromises firefighters and civilians’ safety on a daily basis. The department’s Fleet Service Technicians are not to blame, but are being unnecessarily hampered by the lack of resources and bureaucratic red tape, that is more concerned with saving dollars than putting the best fire truck out on the street.

    “If this results in a fire truck being delayed in getting to the scene of an emergency or results in delays in getting in service once at the scene of an emergency the results can be disastrous,” he added.

    Recently the department also purchased new fire trucks that were found to have problems immediately off the assembly line. FDNY Fleet Services response to get the manufacturer to fix the non-operating fire trucks, was to order 12 more trucks from the same company, without putting it out for competitive bid.

    Mr. Cassidy suggested that common sense, good business practices and city’s bidding rules would lead one to think that the FDNY would utilize competitive bidding among the various fire apparatus manufacturers, causing them to improve the quality of the final product and compete on price, versus simply isolating the fleet to deal with only one product and one vendor.

    “We need to be asking what are the qualifications of the FDNY official directly responsible for decisions that result in tens of millions in taxpayer dollars being spent on contracts for new FDNY trucks, and the maintenance of older vehicles,” Cassidy suggested. “Even after Comptroller Thompson’s analysis last year, the more questions you ask of the department the less answers you get. There needs to be some accountability and answers.”

    He also pointed out that due to the inadequate amount of spares FDNY trucks, some fire companies who usually operate with tower ladders are using an aerial ladder trucks, which affect operations and the safety. With the overuse of old, spare fire trucks by the FDNY Fleet Services, he asked, what are standards for spare fire trucks, are there any age limits and oversight over their use.

    Last December the UFA called for an outside investigation of the FDNY’s procurement and bidding process for new fire trucks, after a Manhattan firefighter was ejected from an a fire truck dating back to the Koch Administration. To date, the City Council is the first to begin looking into this serious equipment issue.

    Given that none of the Comptroller’s recommendations from May of 2005 have been implemented by the FDNY and the practice of ancient fire apparatus has only worsened, Mr. Cassidy renewed his calls for an independent investigation.

  3. #3
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Never thought anyone from FDNY would want to go with low bid.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueflame
    This was posted on UFA FDNY web site:

    For Immediate Release: April 4, 2006

    The State of FDNY Fire Trucks….JALOPIES
    New York City Firefighters are counted on by millions of New Yorkers to be their safety net in case of an emergency, but union leaders say New Yorkers are at greater risk due to the failure of basic FDNY equipment, including trucks that firefighters call Jalopies.

    “Clearly this is an issue of mismanagement by the Fire Department,” said Steve Cassidy UFA President. “Members of the greatest fire department in the world should not be driving around New York in Jalopies with equipment that fails when life is on the line.”

    Cassidy compared the regular maintenance checklist of an FDNY fire truck to that of a New York City Sanitation Truck. In a head-to-head mechanical check, a garbage truck gets a strenuous review that is 7.5 times more rigorous than for a life saving fire truck.

    The preventive maintenance checklist for New York City fire trucks are: 25 check list items for an FDNY Engine Company; 26 check list items for a Ladder Company; with FDNY provisional employee mechanics, encouraged to take no longer than 2 ? hours before getting an FDNY rig back out into the field.

    By comparison, the checklist for a New York City Department of Sanitation garbage truck is 189 checkpoints with a safety review by a Sanitation mechanics regularly taking 8 hours to fully inspect.

    “FDNY mechanics do not want to be in this position, but are mandated by management to churn these rigs back out into the field faster than time allows for them to be properly inspected,” said Mr. Cassidy. “These employees know that if they do not comply they can and will be fired by the FDNY.”

    This type of risk management utilized by the FDNY’s Fleet Services division compromises firefighters and civilians’ safety on a daily basis. The department’s Fleet Service Technicians are not to blame, but are being unnecessarily hampered by the lack of resources and bureaucratic red tape, that is more concerned with saving dollars than putting the best fire truck out on the street.

    “If this results in a fire truck being delayed in getting to the scene of an emergency or results in delays in getting in service once at the scene of an emergency the results can be disastrous,” he added.

    Recently the department also purchased new fire trucks that were found to have problems immediately off the assembly line. FDNY Fleet Services response to get the manufacturer to fix the non-operating fire trucks, was to order 12 more trucks from the same company, without putting it out for competitive bid.

    Mr. Cassidy suggested that common sense, good business practices and city’s bidding rules would lead one to think that the FDNY would utilize competitive bidding among the various fire apparatus manufacturers, causing them to improve the quality of the final product and compete on price, versus simply isolating the fleet to deal with only one product and one vendor.

    “We need to be asking what are the qualifications of the FDNY official directly responsible for decisions that result in tens of millions in taxpayer dollars being spent on contracts for new FDNY trucks, and the maintenance of older vehicles,” Cassidy suggested. “Even after Comptroller Thompson’s analysis last year, the more questions you ask of the department the less answers you get. There needs to be some accountability and answers.”

    He also pointed out that due to the inadequate amount of spares FDNY trucks, some fire companies who usually operate with tower ladders are using an aerial ladder trucks, which affect operations and the safety. With the overuse of old, spare fire trucks by the FDNY Fleet Services, he asked, what are standards for spare fire trucks, are there any age limits and oversight over their use.

    Last December the UFA called for an outside investigation of the FDNY’s procurement and bidding process for new fire trucks, after a Manhattan firefighter was ejected from an a fire truck dating back to the Koch Administration. To date, the City Council is the first to begin looking into this serious equipment issue.

    Given that none of the Comptroller’s recommendations from May of 2005 have been implemented by the FDNY and the practice of ancient fire apparatus has only worsened, Mr. Cassidy renewed his calls for an independent investigation.
    I think that the FDNY did not utilize competitive bidding on 12 tower ladders because " Seagrave Fire Apparatus " is the only company who builds the Aerialscope apparatus that the department has been using since 1964 ! The other 100' ladders sould have been sent out to bid by any builder who meets the FDNY specs.

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    Default local politics

    It seems that it is local politics at its best with nobody stepping forward to rectify the situation and probably nothing will be done unless somebody dies and sues and by that time they will have figured out which way to point the fingers. The citizenry and public servants be dam**d and if someone does sue its' still only the taxpayers money thats' being wasted.

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    Mr. Cassidy suggested that common sense, good business practices and city’s bidding rules would lead one to think that the FDNY would utilize competitive bidding among the various fire apparatus manufacturers, causing them to improve the quality of the final product and compete on price, versus simply isolating the fleet to deal with only one product and one vendor.
    The spec would probably read something like this: "...shall have an aerial device constructed of a boxed boom..." "...shall have 1 downrigger at each corner of the apparatus and 2 scissor type outriggers in the middle..."

    Who could meet that besides Seagrave?
    FTM - PTB

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    You know, the solution is obvious. If they had only had bought Pierce, no problems

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    Uh oh.
    FTM - PTB

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    Halligan, oh Halligan... What have you done?
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by IronsMan53
    Halligan, oh Halligan... What have you done?
    He inserted the pointy end of the tool into the crockpot o' crap to see what happens!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by BVFD1983
    The spec would probably read something like this: "...shall have an aerial device constructed of a boxed boom..." "...shall have 1 downrigger at each corner of the apparatus and 2 scissor type outriggers in the middle..."

    Who could meet that besides Seagrave?
    The specs on the 8 rear mount ladders could have been met by any builder who makes a 100 " steel " aerial ladder with a fixed cab & chassis just like Seagraves builds for the FDNY !...

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    Yeah I was saying that no one else builds anything that can match the scope.
    FTM - PTB

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    It gets kinda annoying when people say the fire department "shoulda bought xyz truck?" The fire department I am with has never bought a fire truck. Our government has. Some pencil pushing bureaucrat, appointed by the mayor as director of purchasing makes the decision. We have a committee that can make recommendations, but the almighty dollar always wins. Ours has no idea what a fire truck is, as long as the bid meets spec low bidder wins. That's why my truck is back at HME/Smeal getting the chasis re-welded.

    Some can't understand that the fire department does not operate in a vacuum. Some one else has the money bag and the chief is appointed by a politician.

    Minor rant off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BVFD1983

    Who could meet that besides Seagrave?

    American LaFrance
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    "OUTRIGGER CONFIGURATION: H-type, out-and-down style. 100' and 93', quantity of 4; 75', quantity of 2."

    "OUTRIGGER SPREAD: 100' and 93'-18' (mid-position), 16' (rear position); 75'-18'
    (mid-position). Stabilizing jacks, 2 mounted below front bumper."

    That is nothing like one downrigger on each corner and two radial type outriggers in the middle.
    FTM - PTB

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    No but I am sure ALF can meet thier specs and needs. As far as the boom goes. The LTi that is used by ALF performs the same as the Baker, but is not of solid construction.

    As far as Engines go.....I know for a fact they can meet FDNYs specs. Granted the tester that was used by FDNY (E-34) post 9/11 was less then stellar, they have taken that info and reworked thier design. They have made "city service" rigs since that have performed quite well.
    IACOJ Member

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    Yeah but what if their spec specifies 4 downriggers?
    FTM - PTB

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    I think Vinnie's point is that another company could build a truck that functiopns they way FDNY uses them. I'm sure FDNY firefighters care more about functionality than name plates on the grill. If you spec a scope (four downriggers) than thats what you'll get every time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB
    No but I am sure ALF can meet thier specs and needs. As far as the boom goes. The LTi that is used by ALF performs the same as the Baker, but is not of solid construction.

    As far as Engines go.....I know for a fact they can meet FDNYs specs. Granted the tester that was used by FDNY (E-34) post 9/11 was less then stellar, they have taken that info and reworked thier design. They have made "city service" rigs since that have performed quite well.
    The American Lafrance fire apparatus company built a Eagle pumper for the FDNY 3 years ago that went to a engine co. in " Hells Kitchen ". Manhatten engine co. 34.
    Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 04-17-2006 at 07:07 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM
    I think Vinnie's point is that another company could build a truck that functiopns they way FDNY uses them. I'm sure FDNY firefighters care more about functionality than name plates on the grill. If you spec a scope (four downriggers) than thats what you'll get every time.
    I have never read their specs, but maybe that is what they spec?
    FTM - PTB

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