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Thread: Pumper $$ Limit

  1. #1
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    Default Pumper $$ Limit

    Any idea on the funding limits on a pumper/engine ??


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    Basic Class A $245K fed share. They raised it 20K from the steel price increase. Same with the other trucks too. Doesn't mean ask for it and gold plate everything, still have a cost-benefit on it.

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    What would be the max for a large scale brush truck? If we were to buy one today, it would be over $300k
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    Last edited by johnemt76; 04-05-2006 at 07:29 PM.

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    $200K probably. They generally don't fund war wagons like that, as much fun as it would be to have one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnemt76
    What would be the max for a large scale brush truck? If we were to buy one today, it would be over $300k
    You can get a low mi chassis that do anything you need along those lines thru FEPP for the cost of transport from the DOD surplus yard. Contact your state forester. Then go to http://www.roscommonequipmentcenter.com/

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    $245K for a Custom w/ 5 man cab?????

    Can someone tell me where to find this dealer???

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    How about less:

    Spartan, 4-Door Full-Tilt Aluminum Cab, Pumper, Formed Aluminum Body, Single Axle, 1250 GPM Pump, Side Mounted $202,702.00

    Spartan, 4-Door, Custom Full-Tilt, Aluminum Cab, Pumper/Tanker, Extruded Aluminum Body, Tandem Axle, 1250 GPM Pump, Mid-Mounted $224,920.00

    E-One Typhoon, 4-Door Custom Full-Tilt Aluminum Cab, Pumper, Extruded Aluminum Body, Single Axle, 1250 GPM Pump, Mid-Mounted $233,937.00

    American LaFrance Metropolitan 4-Door Custom Full Tilt, Pumper, Extruded Aluminum Body, Single Axle, 1250 gpm pump, mid mount $219,301.00

    Custom Ferrara, 4-Door, Full-Tilt Cab, Extruded Aluminum Body, Single Axle, 1500 GPM Pump, Mid-Mounted Pumper $237,900.00

    KME Custom, 4-Door, Full-Tilt, Aluminum Cab, Galvanneal Steel Body, Single Axle, 1250 GPM Pump, Mid-Mouted Pumper $215,295.00

    Spartan 4-Door, Pumper, Extruded Aluminum Body, Single Axle, 1250 GPM Pump, Side Mounted, 750 Gallon Tank $219,552.00

    Pierce Contender, 4-Door, Full-Tilt, Aluminum Cab, Aluminum Body, Single Axle, 1250 GPM Pump, Mid-Mounted Pumper $201,684.00

    Spartan 4-Door Chassis, Aluminum Tilt Cab, Aluminum Body, Single Axle, 1250 GPM Pump, Mid-Mounted Pumper $220,626.00

    Amazing what purchasing co-ops do for prices.

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    This may be a dumb question, but why don't they just tell us the limit up front instead of making us play these silly guessing games? It's frustrating!

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    War Wagon AKA Brushbreaker. This is the standard up here and is the only effective way to battle these types of fast moving brush fires. Pump and roll. Is the 200k based on a smaller truck or is that off an engine standard??



    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief310
    This may be a dumb question, but why don't they just tell us the limit up front instead of making us play these silly guessing games? It's frustrating!
    Nobody wants be in a position to be accused (or convicted) of price-fixing?

    Real Answer...
    I can't recall if it was Brian or Kurt a few months back who discussed that issue. They do a lot of price tracking, AFG budget requests are a part of that, and contribute to future changes. With proper justification in the narrative, there can be some degree of flexibility too, so any presumed caps are not really there (sometimes). Justifiying the cost to get where we need to be will end at a different price than making excuses to get where we want to be!!
    earl

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnemt76
    War Wagon AKA Brushbreaker. This is the standard up here and is the only effective way to battle these types of fast moving brush fires. Pump and roll. Is the 200k based on a smaller truck or is that off an engine standard??



    Thanks
    Great, true many places in the US. So start with a $120000 commericial chassis or a low mi full operational DOD surplus chassis (2man cab)? Add a flatbed, a 60-2000gal water tank and portable/skid pump, if you're feeling wealth CAFS, misc. bits pieces. How do you get to $300k?

    You're going to tear it up/scratch the paint the 1st time you hit the woods, so what do you gain (that a firegrant should be used for) by starting with a commerical chassis vs a DOD truck like a heck of a lot of depts in the US? If a begger don't get to picky. You're talking an NFPA structural truck different story.

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    We asked for 233,000 (Fed share) for a new rescue pumper and basic NFPA equipment to replace a 34 year old step-van converted to a rescue and a 44 year old pumper. Neither have seatbelts nor are close to NFPA compliance. We have a couple things going against us though, we have an 01 pumper and an 03 tanker that we were able to buy through fundrasing over a 25 year period.

    We tryed hard to justify the cost, the fact that it will be a rescue pumper i think is a good part of that justification, reels, equipment storage, lighting ect. Do you guys think that was too much?

    Second, based on the little you know about our grant, do you think that the 01 engine and 03 tanker will really hurt us.

    Do you guys think we have a prayer to even get to peer review? What i mean is will these numbers get us kicked out before peer review?

    I think we have a really good narrative, we painted a very understandable picture, i think if we can get to peer review we have a chance.

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    Depends on everything else. The 01 and 03 hurt because you have to remember anyone with nothing newer than that has you beat on computer score with everything else identical. Of course there is no such thing so sticking to the basics, someone with 1980s vintage trucks as the newest are ahead of you also. It's not always about what you're doing or applying for, it's who else is in the game at the time. As everyone gets more educated about the program then better apps come in, so you can nail everything and still not make PR or even make it and not go anyway. Anything can happen, but you did the right thing by justify it well in the narrative just in case.

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    Default Tender 83

    How do score a replacement vehicle vs. a new vehicle for a service you currently provide (basic fire protection in an a community that is largely without hydrants). I know of atwo towns in nearby counties of my state that received tankers in the last few years.
    One town is absolutely loaded with money. They are one of the most affluent communities in our nation. Most of the homes are valued at well over 1 million, some are worth 10 million. The fire department basically used about a mid eighties quad, and two other engines less than 10 yerars old. All custom cab stuff carring lots of LDH, as well as a late model brush truck. The town just didn't take care of the fire department well financially. Less than 10,000 people live in the town. How does a community like this get to pier review, while other departments, who have just one newer (10 year old or less engine), and a lot of 20 year plus stuff (brush trucks, engines, and a tanker they want to replace that is over 25 years old doesn't get to pier review for a tanker replacement?
    The other town is also partially hydranted, but no where near as wealthy. The department had one pretty new engine, and some older engines, brush truucks and utility units. They were also rewarded a tanker, but only about 4 or 5 square miles with a couple hundered people in their town has no hydrants. Mutal aid tankers are aavailable in contigous towns.
    One of the problems with the application is that they ask what percentage of the town is hydranted. There is a big difference between what percentage of the improved property (homes, industry, schools, etc) is in a hydranted area vs. what percentage of the land in a town is hydranted. You can have a twenty square mile town with all of the buildings except for say 15 single family homes and three or four farms in 19 of the 20 square miles. If the town portion is fully hydranted, and say 2,000 homes and lots of commercial property are in the remaining square mile which is fully hydranted, I would have a vgery hard time scoring a tanker application (repalcement or new) high for the sake of those 15 homes a a few farms. But the application as developed will show that 2,015 homes, a few farms, and commercial businesses are only 5 percent protected by hydrants. This greatly increases there chances of being awarded.

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    I dont understand the process very well either, 2 nearby communities recieved grants for pumper/tankers, both cities have very well equiped departments with 2000 or newer engines. One rural community nearby somehow snagged a walk in rescue, no pump or water, they have a new pumper, new grass rig and late 80's back up engine. That one blew my mind. I think getting to peer review is one hell of a good sign in the vehicle category, after that, if your narrative makes any sense at all you probably have a chance. I think many departments got discouraged after trying for a truck for 4 years or so without success. We tried for a tanker for 3 years without success, last year we went for gear and radios and were awarded. This year we axed the tanker idea and tried for a rescue pumper. The waiting begins

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er
    How about less:

    Amazing what purchasing co-ops do for prices.
    BC79er, can you expound a little further on this for us not in the know?
    Thanks

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    Purchasing co-ops are just like state purchasing contracts, except for multiple items per product line. For instance TX has a state contract set up for HP computers, and HP only. Any TX government office can buy right from that list, 2 laptops, 2 desktops.

    Houston-Galveston Area Council (HGAC) runs a co-op that has numerous items in each product line. For fire apparatus, every major manufacturer is listed on there with a vehicle in each category that they want included in the list. They all have to fall within a certain range of specs for each category, so there is some leeway to the truck's design. The final specs and price are determined by the dealer and listed on their site. Someone wants that truck, they go in and buy it. No newspaper adds, no requests for proposals, just find truck and buy truck because HGAC did the bid requests already. www.hgacbuy.com is their web site. Only FL, LA, AR, and I can't remember the 4th state don't recognize HGAC pricing. But FL and LA have their own co-op with the same prices for nearly everything so no difference between them. Otherwise the other 46 states can buy off of the HGAC list.

    Pricewise we saved over $20K per truck on the last 3 we bought. Probably closer to $80K total between all 3. Every little bit helps.

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    BC79er:
    The department I belong to is looking for a new rescue . Going by this HGAC, is there anyway to receive more in-depth spec's? For the Spartan chassis, it doesn't say which model, or if there is a raised roof. Does the HGAC buy bottom of the barrel chassis? And do you (the purchaser) have any say in what goes on/in the truck, or is it take it or leave it ? I know this sounds kind of picky, but the department I belong to would probably like some say in what goes into the truck. Thanks for the info.
    Last edited by PeteySt1; 04-27-2006 at 08:18 PM.

  19. #19
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    Nope, most are not bottom of the barrel in terms of options. Since you only have 25% of the listed price to option out the truck before you have to go to a real bid most put a decent amount of options on so that you have more wiggle room in the price. The 25% means that if it lists for $240K that if you make so many changes that it goes over $300K that you can no longer buy through HGAC you have to follow the normal bid process.

    To get the full specs all you have to do is contact the dealers listed. Or your local dealer can call, I think the true process is that your local dealer buys it from the Houston area dealer and then sells it to you. That may not be all of them though. But they should be able to spit you out the full specs in no time.

    - Brian

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