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    Angry Volunteers Real Firefighters????

    well, this subject just ****es me off, i hate to bring it up. yesterday i was talking with one of the paid firefighters where i live, and according to him, volunteers are not real firefighters and shouldnt even be given the title of firefighters. what it really came down to is training. here in mississippi you do not have to go to an academy or school. all of the training is done in house. and for that simple fact he says that were not real firemen, just weekend warriors. he says if we want to be a real fireman why dont we come join the paid department. he says that even if a volunteer dies that it shouldnt be listed as a LODD. come on guys, this is silly to me. i really didnt know what to do because he always had something to say for everything i said. so i left before things got to bad. what do yall think???

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    From "Essentials of Fire Fighting, Fourth Edition":

    "Volunteer fire departments and their firefighters greatly outnumber career departments and their firefighters."


    Volunteers are performing the same tasks and taking the same risks as paid guys, and for little or no compensation. For this I think they deserve to be called firefighters.


    -Craig
    Last edited by DSMtuned; 04-05-2006 at 05:56 PM. Reason: word change

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    People have their opinions, and they are entitled to their own. I believe if you have a certificate that says your something then you are. Your cert and his cert say the same thing (I'm guessing). He might have gotten his from a fire academy while you got yours in house (all depts run things differently), either way the both mean the same thing.
    "Let no man's ghost come back to say my training let me down."

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    I hope I can nip this in the but before it gets UGLY! Being a paid firefighter in MS and a former part time Volly I think I can answer this. I know that being a paid firefighter gets you a lot more training and experience than a volly in this state but that doesn't mean you are not a firefighter. I have been to other volunteer department up north and they get a lot more training and certifications then in MS but that does not mean you are not a firefighter. If you ride on a big red truck that carries water and has hoses and is labeled a fire truck and you get off of it and fight fires then you are a firefighter in my book.

    Don’t let your pride or his start up anything that doesn’t need to be started. If he believes you are not a firefighter then he needs to check his pride and ego at the door. If you let that comment get to you then you need to check yours.
    DixieFire53, Deputy Fire Chief FF/EMT-P, Local 272

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    Quote Originally Posted by CulkinVFD
    ...he says that were not real firemen, just weekend warriors....

    I'm not going to comment on the rest, but reserve soilders/sailors/marines/airmen are an essential part of this country's military and while it is not their full time jobs, they are just as professional and risk their lives just the same.
    ------------------------------------
    These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
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    Why don't you ask him if he checks the certs of all the "not-real-firefighters" that back his happy hiney up on mutual aid calls before he agrees to work with them on a scene? Just a bit of a smart alec rant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CulkinVFD
    here in mississippi you do not have to go to an academy or school. all of the training is done in house. and for that simple fact he says that were not real firemen, just weekend warriors.
    Last night, my wife and I had just driven two hours from work to get back to E. Texas where we live. April 4, 2006 was a Tuesday unless I'm on drugs. As soon as we got into the area, we were toned out for a grass fire. Later, oh say, about 2300, after we'd gotten into bed, we got toned out again for a structure fire.

    One question, guys...did someone forget to send me the memo about Tuesday being a weekend now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSMtuned
    From "Essentials of Fire Fighting, Fourth Edition":

    "Volunteer fire departments and their firefighters greatly outnumber career departments and their firefighters."


    Volunteers are performing the same tasks and taking the same risks as paid guys, and for little or no compensation. For this I think they deserve to be called firefighters.


    -Craig
    From "Fire Safety" Merit Badge Book from the Boy Scouts of America:

    "Roughly 90% of the communities in the United States are served by volunteer fire departments. However, career fire departments provide protection to the greatest number of people. Generally, volunteer fire departments are found in more rural, less populated areas; career departments are more common in urban areas. There should be no distinction between career and volunteer firefighters because the fire does not differentiate between them. If both are well trained, both are professionals in the true sense of the word."

    I know its not an "Official Fire Fighting" Text, but it says it best IMO.

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    I play hockey....but that doesn't make me a hockey player..........

    This one ought to fester.......
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    Why even start this thread, unless of course you just want to start crap. People wonder why there is such a rift between volunteer/career firemen, or why there is even a debate. Someone comes on here, and makes some remarks about a conversation they supposedly had with a “career guy who hates vollies”, with nothing other than "a conversation they had". Give me a break. Why even start this crap. It would have been a better story if you had thrown the Union into the mix, much more fuel.
    Go get a life, and stop worrying what other people think about you. If you train to do the job, and then you go out and actually do the job, who cares what anybody else calls you. Nobody can take away what you actually do.

    This subject may **** you off, but this thread ****es me off.

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    Go a little higher, From the US fire Adm. 80% of all fire departments in the US are Vol.
    I do not pay attention to these guys running their mouth, with 20 % of all departments being paid, I personally know enough vol with more certs than most paid men, that he would not stand a chance at a job if they were to go paid as he said. Most people that talk that way do so from insecurity,

    Paid : 9 weeks- 3 months training most have 582 hrs. plus CEs
    Vol : I personally have 8904 hrs on record and 41 years exp. Tech status in 6 rescues, 3 time alumni of NFA, I wonder if I can call myself a firefighter?

    Don't worry about people like that, get in train, train ,train, do your job, stay out of conversations like that and people well soon see you for what you really are, and they will see him for what he is.
    Last edited by LeeJunkins; 04-05-2006 at 07:39 PM.
    http://www.midsouthrescue.org
    Is it time to change our training yet ?

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    Paid : 9 weeks- 3 months training most have 582 hrs. plus CEs
    Vol : I personally have 8904 hrs on record and 41 years exp. Tech status in 6 rescues, 3 time alumni of NFA, I wonder if I can call myself a firefighter?
    I always love this garbage too. I have more certs; therefore, I am smarter, bigger and better. Well, guess what, most larger city recruit schools may not issue those all important, all coveted certs used as a benchmark, nor do they for all of the continuing in-services, or for the on the job trainings done for that matter. Yet, I am willing to bet the training given in those recruit schools is far superior to the once or twice a week, for a couple of hour trainings you get your “certs” from.
    This is exactly the garbage that keeps this debate alive and well. You want to think that you are superior to those “evil-paid firemen”, and that they are “less-qualified” because they have fewer "certs" than you, so be it.
    This thread is just another waste of cyberspace.
    Last edited by jasper45; 04-05-2006 at 08:02 PM.

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    Anyone seen that new show on Spike TV, where amatuer athletes go one-on-one vs pros?
    It's hilarious.
    But that's not the point; if they ride on a fire engine, wear fireman gear, and do fireman things, ya gotta call em a fireman/firefighter.
    Wether or not the individual is good at it or not is an entirely different subject!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mitllesmertz1
    Anyone seen that new show on Spike TV, where amatuer athletes go one-on-one vs pros?
    It's hilarious.
    Yes....it is hilarious.....

    But that's not the point; if they ride on a fire engine, wear fireman gear, and do fireman things, ya gotta call em a fireman/firefighter.
    [B]Wether or not the individual is good at it or not is an entirely different subject!
    Hey...On occations.....I dress up like a pirate, talk like a pirate, and act like a pirate....does that mean I am a pirate?
    IACOJ Member

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    Can see this thread headed downhill already .....

    And by the way, Isn't training at a Fire department's Academy in-house?
    Thier instructors. Thier facilities. Thier Apparatus. Thier procedures.
    Sure sounds like "in-house" to me.

    As far as our training .... LSUFETI, Texas A&M, National Fire Academy (Resident and Non-Resident programs), Texas Fire Training, Louisiana Bureau of EMS, Life-Air Rescue, Regional Fire Schools, Shreveport Fire Department ... and yes, in-house too.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 04-05-2006 at 08:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45
    I always love this garbage too. I have more certs; therefore, I am smarter, bigger and better. Well, guess what, most larger city recruit schools may not issue those all important, all coveted certs used as a benchmark, nor do they for all of the continuing in-services, or for the on the job trainings done for that matter. Yet, I am willing to bet the training given in those recruit schools is far superior to the once or twice a week, for a couple of hour trainings you get your “certs” from.
    This is exactly the garbage that keeps this debate alive and well. You want to think that you are superior to those “evil-paid firemen”, and that they are “less-qualified” because they have fewer "certs" than you, so be it.
    This thread is just another waste of cyberspace.

    jasper45, Buddy sorry if I have offended you, But you read my post exactly backwards to what I was saying, If you look back at all the post I have on here You will never find a one were I brag on myself, You will see dozens were I talk about how much I learn from everyone on here, All I was saying is it doesnt matter what someone thinks as long as you no who you are.
    I told myself not to get in this thread to begin with maybe I will listen to myself next time.
    http://www.midsouthrescue.org
    Is it time to change our training yet ?

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    I’m a captain on a “vollie” department and I can safely say that I have led interior attacks with the nozzle, backed up the nozzle, pulled hose, stacked hose, sift, lift and move debris, wear backpacks on grass fires, caught hydrants, been tool go-fer, vented buildings, used spreaders/spreaders/rams, performed C-spine, packed patients, shoveled sh*t, and just about anything else you can think of.

    I’ve planned training, gone to training, planned budgets, bought trucks, swept the firehall, done dishes, and whatever else……. All since they made me a captain. Short staffing obtain means you have to be prepared to do it all. Not only that, you can’t push a rope. Leaders lead by example.

    I put in no less than 30 hours a week at the hall, plus I have a full time job to make a living and keep shoes on my kids feet.

    I’m not a “vollie”, I’m a professional firefighter who doesn’t get paid ( and very proud of it). Hold your heads high brothers.

    Stay Safe

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    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB
    Yes....it is hilarious.....



    Hey...On occations.....I dress up like a pirate, talk like a pirate, and act like a pirate....does that mean I am a pirate?
    But if your out at sea and under attack from another ship, does it matter if wiether or not the person is a pirate as long as they are trained how to effectively fire the cannon and fight like the rest of the crew on board?
    Just know, I chose my own fate. I drove by the fork in the road and went straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi View Post
    Go put your pussy 2 1/2" lines away kiddies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer343

    By the way KEEPBACK200FEET, you're so dramatic!

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    I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.......
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeJunkins
    jasper45, Buddy sorry if I have offended you, But you read my post exactly backwards to what I was saying, If you look back at all the post I have on here You will never find a one were I brag on myself, You will see dozens were I talk about how much I learn from everyone on here, All I was saying is it doesnt matter what someone thinks as long as you no who you are.
    I told myself not to get in this thread to begin with maybe I will listen to myself next time.

    No offense taken whatsoever, and no, I wasn’t offended. I didn’t include your user ID with the quote because I only wanted to address a portion. One large problem with posting is that statements can be taken out of context, misunderstood, and so on. I was just childly adding to the conversation.
    In a perfect world, no one would have posted on such an idiotic thread, which by the way does include me!

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    This to........will pass
    This space for rent

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    This topic ****es me off and makes me laugh at the same time.

    Since I am both career and volly I go back and forth between hating myself for being a mercenary one day and then hating myself for being a scab the next.

    Look it is this simple...a firefighter is a firefighter, pay status has nothing to do with it.

    FyredUp

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    Quote Originally Posted by CulkinVFD
    well, this subject just ****es me off, i hate to bring it up. yesterday i was talking with one of the paid firefighters where i live, and according to him, volunteers are not real firefighters and shouldnt even be given the title of firefighters. what it really came down to is training. here in mississippi you do not have to go to an academy or school.
    Which is a damn shame. Every firefighter should be required to get training given by their state's fire academies, regardless of if they are career, paid on call or volunteer.

    all of the training is done in house. and for that simple fact he says that were not real firemen, just weekend warriors. he says if we want to be a real fireman why dont we come join the paid department. he says that even if a volunteer dies that it shouldnt be listed as a LODD. come on guys, this is silly to me.
    Then why did you even waste time posting this garbage?

    i really didnt know what to do because he always had something to say for everything i said. so i left before things got to bad. what do yall think???
    I agree with Jasper.. I "y'all" think this is a post that was made to stir the "crockpot o' crap" to see what floated to the top.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasper45
    No offense taken whatsoever, and no, I wasn’t offended. I didn’t include your user ID with the quote because I only wanted to address a portion. One large problem with posting is that statements can be taken out of context, misunderstood, and so on. I was just childly adding to the conversation.
    In a perfect world, no one would have posted on such an idiotic thread, which by the way does include me!

    And me I know better
    http://www.midsouthrescue.org
    Is it time to change our training yet ?

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    FyredUp,

    Damn you! I just made a mess on my keyboard!

    http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/python/Sou...v/bringout.wav
    Last edited by RoughRider; 04-05-2006 at 08:58 PM.
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