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    Default Ground Ladders For Egress

    When throwing a ground ladder for possible use as emergency egress, do you want to go ahead and take out the window, or leave then window intact and just notify interior teams that there is a ladder there for egress? Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by New2DTruck
    When throwing a ground ladder for possible use as emergency egress, do you want to go ahead and take out the window, or leave then window intact and just notify interior teams that there is a ladder there for egress? Thanks!
    Let's go by the numbers...

    1. Building on fire.
    2. Windows are realtively inexpensive.
    3. Firefighters are priceless.
    4. LODD's are damn expensive in both monetary and emotional costs.


    Take out the window, making sure that all of the glass is cleaned out.
    Let the interior crews know what side of the building the emergency egress ladders are!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Post Egress

    While we're on this topic: I've seen lots of operations where there are plenty of ladders on the side of the building where there is fire showing. It makes sense, trying to vent ahead of the fire so it can be pushed out by the engine company. What I haven't seen is lots of operations where those ladders are on the opposite side. If it were my behind in there, I certainly wouldn't be heading through the fire to escape!!! Get the ladders up BEHIND me!!!!!!
    Captain/EMT-P

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    To add to the last post, if a line isnt in operation yet, but a search is being made, or if a line is in operation on 1 floor, but someone is searching the floor above, you might make things alot worse by taking a window. At a job last week, members in my dept were searching a front bedroom, but had to wait to take the window, because there was no bedroom door to close. We had to wait until the line had made it back down the hallway before we were able to vent.

    Unless you are venting for IMMEDIATE life issues, get on a radio and ask permission to vent windows from the outside. Obviously, if you know the line is in operation, and you can somewhat see what the conditions inside are, you can make a decision on where to vent the window, and where the guys might need that ladder.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    I got some crap from some senior guys at our last fire we had...moderate fire conditions on the 2nd floor of a 2 story Rowhouse and only one door in and out, Myself and my partner took out one of the windows and laddered it and the interior crew was giving us a problem because "we broke a window" I said to my partner they wouldnt be bitching at us if something went wrong and that staircase got blocked and they had to bail out of that window....some people you can never please....your damned if you do and your damned if you dont...
    Andrew
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    What was their reasoning for being angry? Did you take a window without a line in operation yet? Or a window on the floor above without a line in place? Or were they just some of those who think that we should do as little damage to the house as possible, even if it puts our lives in danger or can actually make the fire destroy more of the property?
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    I say the window has to go !!!!
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
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    Quote Originally Posted by New2DTruck
    When throwing a ground ladder for possible use as emergency egress, do you want to go ahead and take out the window, or leave then window intact and just notify interior teams that there is a ladder there for egress? Thanks!

    If youre throwing a ladder "just in case" you really need to think about what the effects of taking the window will do to the fire. Will it draw the fire towards an otherwise uninvolved area? Will taking that window actually decrease the ability of the search team due to rapidly advancing fire without the protection of a hoseline? Guys often make fun of a ladderman, its usualy cause they dont understand the job.

    The sign of a good ladder company is having ladders placed to every floor and every side of the building. It never hurts to throw a ladder. When that ladder is needed emergently, you look like a damn genius. We carry 217 ft. of ground ladders and do our best to use every foot of them when possible. And that main ladder isnt just on the piece to look neat, if you can put it up, get it up. Nothing better when the roof gets crappy to be able to head for that big tip sticking up rather than one of those ground ladders that just made the roof.
    Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PFDTruck18
    If youre throwing a ladder "just in case" you really need to think about what the effects of taking the window will do to the fire. Will it draw the fire towards an otherwise uninvolved area? Will taking that window actually decrease the ability of the search team due to rapidly advancing fire without the protection of a hoseline? Guys often make fun of a ladderman, its usualy cause they dont understand the job.

    The sign of a good ladder company is having ladders placed to every floor and every side of the building. It never hurts to throw a ladder. When that ladder is needed emergently, you look like a damn genius. We carry 217 ft. of ground ladders and do our best to use every foot of them when possible. And that main ladder isnt just on the piece to look neat, if you can put it up, get it up. Nothing better when the roof gets crappy to be able to head for that big tip sticking up rather than one of those ground ladders that just made the roof.
    Excellent Post..
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    I too think it should be coordinated before breaking any glass.

    If your dept subscribes to the "Smash Everything" VES technique, then no problem. However if you are using controlled ventilation, or even PPV, there is a chance to really bugger it up if not coordinated.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl
    What was their reasoning for being angry? Did you take a window without a line in operation yet? Or a window on the floor above without a line in place? Or were they just some of those who think that we should do as little damage to the house as possible, even if it puts our lives in danger or can actually make the fire destroy more of the property?

    They had the line in operation knocking down the fire and searches were underway with a possibility of a occupant trapped on the 2nd floor (the fire floor) which where the window was that hte ladder was placed at. So there reasoning of being ****ed off I dunno...but I didnt get yelled at for doing it by the chief in charge so Im not worried about it.
    Andrew
    Firefighter/EMT
    New Jersey

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    1. EVERY window above ground level should have a ladder. Only possible exceptions are windows with heavy fire blowing out and windows over a door being used for access/egress.


    2. If taking the window will not affect fire spread (upper floors, etc), then take the window. If you will negatively affect fire spread (draw fire back on crews, etc) DO NOT take the window.

    Somebody pointed out earlier that you don't really want your ladders where the fire is venting, because you're not going to crawl through the fire to grab a ladder. Valid point. Don't throw your ladders where they are just going to be destroyed by fire. However, if you need to use them as a vent tool, just pull the tip below the sill - not ideal, but you don't want to cook your ladders.

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