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  1. #21
    Forum Member medicmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief842351
    I am still trying to figure out why in the heck this is being from up in the firefighting forum. Medicmaster it seems to me that you are so very unaware of what actually happened during Katrina. Not really sure were you are from but I am from Mississippi and I was and still living in the baton rouge area during the Katrina era. The excuse for a governor and mayor were indeed told to evacuate New Orleans in ample time. They both should be held accoutable for the loss of life. I am sorry that you don't like OUR president but it seems to me that you are just attempting to get bull**** started. The fire service imho should not be a place for politics. I fully agree with george on what he posted.
    What difference does it make where this is posted...it is a GENERAL forum for firefighting topics. It is an article related to disaster response...a fire service responsibility.

    I'm from Iowa...but I was in New Orleans for an EMS conference when the storm hit. I am aware of what happened there in the 48 hours before landfall. I agree that local government did a deplorable job in responding to this, and yes, they were given ample time to evacuate. They did. 36 hours before the storm hit, they were urging people to leave, 24 hours before the storm hit, they essentially said "leave or die". We got the hell out in a hurry. I honestly don't have a lot of sympathy for those who chose not to leave.

    But we're getting away from the point of the thread here.

    I'm glad to know you don't feel that the fire service is a place for politics, but I see you have 9 posts...do some digging around and you'll see this place is chock full of politics.
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  2. #22
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    You "found the article interesting" did ya?

    The Truth Surfaces-
    While I fully agree that the city of New Orleans and the state of Louisiana had a less than stellar response to this, this is rediculous.
    While the President and the Federal Government cannot be held entirely responsible for their **** poor response to Katrina, that weight of this particular article is in the fact that Bush LIED.

    He had been informed of what was potentially going to happen...he chose not act, and then told the public that he had no idea that it would be a disaster of that magnitude.
    Those are examples of your intellectual dishonesty.

  3. #23
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    While the President and the Federal Government cannot be held entirely responsible for their **** poor response to Katrina, that weight of this particular article is in the fact that Bush LIED.

    He had been informed of what was potentially going to happen...he chose not act, and then told the public that he had no idea that it would be a disaster of that magnitude.

    First off I am not surprised that any politician lied to cover their butt. Politicians lie almost as often as they take a breath, but anyway.........

    I have to ask exactly what else he was supposed to do that would have changed things in 36 hours? This is why disaster response is a local issue for the first 36-48 hours. It takes a long time get the federal stockpiles, agencies, and equipment anywhere, regardless of where the disaster is or what it is. Doesn't matter who is in the Oval Office.

    I suppose the Feds would have gotten all of those flooded school buses driven that the local government neglected to do which is part of their own disaster response plan. But everything going on is the current President's fault.

    And no, I am not a supporter of the current President. Just exercising common sense here. Yes everryone failed, but when the front line fails (the local and state folks) the second line of defense takes a while to make up for the inadequacies of the past.
    Last edited by DaSharkie; 04-16-2006 at 04:30 PM.
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  4. #24
    Forum Member medicmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Those are examples of your intellectual dishonesty.
    Actually, the first one is from the article itself...that was not mine.

    I still fail to see the "intellectual dishonesty" in the others. But, I should expect no less from you.
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  5. #25
    Forum Member medicmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie
    First off I am not surprised that any politician lied to cover their butt. Politicians lie almost as often as they take a breath, but anyway.........

    I have to ask exactly what else he was supposed to do that would have changed things in 36 hours? This is why disaster response is a local issue for the first 36-48 hours. It takes a long time get the federal stockpiles, agencies, and equipment anywhere, regardless of where the disaster is or what it is. Doesn't matter who is in the Oval Office.

    I suppose the Feds would have gotten all of those flooded school buses driven that the local government neglected to do which is part of their own disaster response plan. But everything going on is the current President's fault.

    And no, I am not a supporter of the current President. Just exercising common sense here. Yes everryone failed, but when the front line fails (the local and state folks) the second line of defense takes a while to make up for the inadequacies of the past.
    Sharkie,

    I fully agree that Bush really couldn't have done anything differently to change what happened in the first 36 hours. As I have stated, I also agree that there was a serious failure to act at the local level.

    I too am not surprised that he lied...especially given that he has us in a war we can't win, and his approval rating has been less than 50% for some time.

    What I fail to understand is how one can point fingers at the local level and call them out on every lie they've spewed out (and rightly so), but as soon as fingers are pointed higher up the ladder, suddenly "it's not their fault" and its a rush to the post to defend them.
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  6. #26
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by medicmaster
    Sharkie,

    I fully agree that Bush really couldn't have done anything differently to change what happened in the first 36 hours. As I have stated, I also agree that there was a serious failure to act at the local level.

    I too am not surprised that he lied...especially given that he has us in a war we can't win, and his approval rating has been less than 50% for some time.

    What I fail to understand is how one can point fingers at the local level and call them out on every lie they've spewed out (and rightly so), but as soon as fingers are pointed higher up the ladder, suddenly "it's not their fault" and its a rush to the post to defend them.
    The thing is that in most cases, only the Feds are blamed. The locals seem to get a free pass in general. So basically it reaffirms my beief that politicians at all levels are useless twits worthy of good old fashioned beat down and getting booted out of office, alas people are stupid and they shall be reelected.

    As for the war, we'll just have to disagree there. It could be won if the politician let the career Warriors fight it and stop micromanaging the generals. Unpopular I know, but that is how I feel.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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  7. #27
    Forum Member medicmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie
    So basically it reaffirms my beief that politicians at all levels are useless twits worthy of good old fashioned beat down and getting booted out of office, alas people are stupid and they shall be reelected.
    There was a time when I actually believed their was honor in holding public office, but you have pretty muched summed up how I feel these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie
    As for the war, we'll just have to disagree there. It could be won if the politician let the career Warriors fight it and stop micromanaging the generals. Unpopular I know, but that is how I feel.
    I agree with you in principle...but the only way to truly win that war is to stop the spread of the radical insurgents...which is akin to the extinction of the cockroach...not likely to happen. I felt we had the job done the day we caught Saddam...but what happened to bin Laden??? The middle east has been in turmoil since the beginning of time, and it always will be.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by medicmaster
    I agree with you in principle...but the only way to truly win that war is to stop the spread of the radical insurgents...which is akin to the extinction of the cockroach...not likely to happen. I felt we had the job done the day we caught Saddam...but what happened to bin Laden??? The middle east has been in turmoil since the beginning of time, and it always will be.
    No. The way to win the war is to let the soldiers break things and kill people and make the radical insurgents afraid to hit us, due to the repercussions.

    Worked with Japan. Two big booms and you haven't heard a peep out of them since.

  9. #29
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    You take the terrorists and insurgents out one bullet at a time. Again, it is the LCpl, or PFC out there as teh trigger puller. Let them do the job and get the politicians and media out of dodge.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    No. The way to win the war is to let the soldiers break things and kill people and make the radical insurgents afraid to hit us, due to the repercussions.

    Worked with Japan. Two big booms and you haven't heard a peep out of them since.
    WELL put George! It's high time the media/liberals/democrats/ACLU/whoever else drank a tall glass of shut the f*ck up and let our boys fight our war!


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  11. #31
    Forum Member medicmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Worked with Japan. Two big booms and you haven't heard a peep out of them since.
    I agree with you fully here...that is, send a couple of nukes. THAT would send a strong message.
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  12. #32
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    36 hrs for Federal aid? Maybe a few strike teams but in most of the "big" events I've been exposed to 72 hrs would be a closer figure to get the system mobilized and working.And if you think about it,that is not an unreasonable time frame. I'm in total agreement of too many politicians and media interfering with our troops.Give them what they need to get the job DONE,let them get it done and come home.If that requires some special resources,so be it. T.C.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42
    But Dal, Hartford and Providence are not hit with hurricanes annually. Rebuilding an area that is constantly hit and is below sea level does not make sense. Rebuilding an area that is hit once every 25 years and is below sea level makes more sense.
    New Orleans isn't hit with hurricanes every year. In fact, before Katrina, I believe the last direct hit they took was Hurricane Betsy in 1965. The last direct hit before Betsy was a hurricane in the late 1940s.

  14. #34
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    You are right, it is not hit directly every year, but every year a hurricane sweeps through within 100 miles or so. Pensacola, FL and Mobile, AL have gotten hit several times each year in the past few.

    But to rebuild a city that is already BELOW sea level, and SINKING is ludicrous.

    And how many times is the federal flood insurance program supposed to rebuild the same damned houses on the coast? It gets a bit rediculous after the first time. You want to own a house on the beach? You are more thank likely well off financially so pay for your own insurance to rebuild, not me.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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