1. #1
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    Question smooth bore vs combo nozzle studies

    I know this has been talk about to death, but im only interested in actual studies either done by fire departments or organation like colleges. My dept has grant money to buy new eqiupment to replace 30 yrs equipment and the chief would like information about the scientic aspects of both nozzles and thier effects on fire extingishment. Can anyone direct me to links either on here, on web, or publications that have infomation on actual studies. Thank for you help. and thank for not turning this into a repeat of personal opinions. If your own dept did a factual study please that information would be very helpful to.

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    This is always good for a Purple Hydrant or two.

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    I'd be interested in seeing some studies as well. We're an all combo department, but I wouldn't mind seeing some more info.

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    nevermind me.

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    If you go to some of the nozzle manufacturers sites, you will see they have some studies published. Of course, magically, their brand will come out on top. But at least it's something to compare.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    The Rockland County, NY Fire Training Center is home to a-lot of the most recent studies. Started by the Late Andy Fredricks, Sq-18 FDNY and carried on by by the members of the Training Staff. They have done numerous articles for Fire Engineering and Firehouse Mags plus they have done the big Buff expos. I had all the info on a computer that crashed and burned.....sorry, but you can try to contact them directly.

    http://www.co.rockland.ny.us/Fire/default.html
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    Some links and search tips were provided in the thread attached below with regard to your info/study request. Scroll down to the 4th, 5th & 6th posts.

    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=66804

    Stay Safe
    Last edited by tjsnys; 04-18-2006 at 04:44 PM.

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    In either the Jan or Feb 2006 Fire Engineering Magizine had an article about a department in Florida that conducted their own study. After that study they decided to switch mostly back to smooth bores. You might want to look there. Sorry I can't be more specific.

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    Quote Originally Posted by E229Lt
    This is always good for a Purple Hydrant or two.



    It was said best in the purple hydrant forum, "can you tell me a way to get mt. dew out of a keyboard?"

    Too funny
    Last edited by backsteprescue; 04-20-2006 at 12:44 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by volfireman034
    I know this has been talk about to death, but im only interested in actual studies either done by fire departments or organation like colleges. My dept has grant money to buy new eqiupment to replace 30 yrs equipment and the chief would like information about the scientic aspects of both nozzles and thier effects on fire extingishment. Can anyone direct me to links either on here, on web, or publications that have infomation on actual studies. Thank for you help. and thank for not turning this into a repeat of personal opinions. If your own dept did a factual study please that information would be very helpful to.
    I'm a little concerned that your CHIEF needs information about the scientific aspects of both nozzles and their effects on fire extinguishment. IMHO, he should be throughly familiar with the advantages/disadvantages (including "scientific aspects") of both in order to hold that position.

    I also have found the late Andy Fredericks FDNY SQ-18 articles to be very informative. You can tell by reading them what passion he had for the job.
    Tom

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    Please don;t bash a chief that you don;t know. Our fire dept is in a very rural part of Akransas, we don;t have fomal training beyond the basics and often the chief is the person that shows up for most of the fires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by volfireman034
    Please don;t bash a chief that you don;t know. Our fire dept is in a very rural part of Akransas, we don;t have fomal training beyond the basics and often the chief is the person that shows up for most of the fires.
    I'm not bashing. At least he is asking for the information. Please don't take a principle of having the chief be the expert in the department as a personal attack on your chief.
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    We have fogs, but I carry a solid in my coat in case I feel the need.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983
    We have fogs, but I carry a solid in my coat in case I feel the need.
    Hey Dave,

    I thought that you guys went to all break-apart nozzles. During a field test recently we were told that you guys had switched.
    Stupid People.......Providing Job Security to Public Safety Professionals for ........forever

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    We use Akron break aparts. Let's the nozzleman use what he wants.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    To a dept on Long Island, it doesnt matter smooth bore or fog. initial attack line (most times backup too) is a high pressure booster. They have done this for years, and swear by it. I'll pass on this one.

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    So much of it just plain comes down to your department's attack style. If you're an aggressive department, you're gonna go for the versatility of the combo. If you're a less aggressive, more defensive department, the longer reach and harder hitting of a smoothbore will serve you well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopper12
    So much of it just plain comes down to your department's attack style. If you're an aggressive department, you're gonna go for the versatility of the combo. If you're a less aggressive, more defensive department, the longer reach and harder hitting of a smoothbore will serve you well.
    That is completely untrue. I would venture to say that the FDNY is one of the most aggressive depts in the entire world. (If you want to debate that, fine, but Im not interested). The only fog nozzles we have are on our front bumper lines, for car fires, trash fires, etc. Everything else is smoothbore. I'm not sure where you got this information about aggressiveness, but it is simply not true.
    Last edited by nyckftbl; 04-21-2006 at 10:29 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl
    That is completely untrue. I would venture to say that the FDNY is one of the most aggressive depts in the entire world. (If you want to debate that, fine, but Im not interested). The only fog nozzles we have on our front bumper lines, for car fires, trash fires, etc.

    And being aggressive with a combo nozzle is just going to get you steam burned.
    I don't recall putting a definitive in that statement anywhere.

    If I'm going to be making an aggressive attack, I personally (along with many in my department) would much prefer the versatility of a combo nozzle. As to being aggressive with a combo nozzle and getting steam burns - sure, it can happen. But if I recall, combo nozzles aren't locked to fog. :-\

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopper12
    So much of it just plain comes down to your department's attack style. If you're an aggressive department, you're gonna go for the versatility of the combo. If you're a less aggressive, more defensive department, the longer reach and harder hitting of a smoothbore will serve you well.
    Sounds pretty definitive to me.
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    "So much of it". It was meant as more of a generalization than a broadsweeping definitive, but I can definitely see how it can be seen as such. I apologize.

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    My favorite all around nozzle is a low pressure set gallonage combo nozzle (set on straight stream of course ) such as the Elkhart Chief 150gpm @75 psi for 1 3/4" or the 250gpm @50 psi for 2 1/2". They are simple and easy to use. They can be used on straight stream for direct fire attack or where a narrow fog would be nice such as wetting down exposures.

    But remember, get what best works for your department.

    This can be a pretty volatile topic. I'm going to try to tip toe through this thread... I don't need any more time off.

    Maybe I should join the I.A.C.O.J. and put in for a Purple Hydrant.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopper12
    "So much of it". It was meant as more of a generalization than a broadsweeping definitive, but I can definitely see how it can be seen as such. I apologize.
    No apologies necessary. I understand what you were trying to say.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    My career FD uses combo nozzles on the preconnects and low pressure break aparts on the standpipe packs.

    My volly FD uses low pressure combos with break aparts for all the attack lines.

    I would prefer smooth bores all around but the low pressure nozzle is a good compromise. It makes a decent straight stream.

    The biggest issue with using combo nozzles is TRAINING. Teach your people not to use fog in an area where you or other firefighters are or where possibly salvagable victims are,

    FyredUp

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    nevermind
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