1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86
    Why only on off days?
    "Your off days" being one of those ridicilous analogies of mine for ON YOUR OWN TIME.
    Just know, I chose my own fate. I drove by the fork in the road and went straight.

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    Go put your pussy 2 1/2" lines away kiddies.

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    By the way KEEPBACK200FEET, you're so dramatic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by KEEPBACK200FEET
    You can ridicule my analogies, but the point that I was making still stands. The fire service also trains their employees on company time.
    Which is also a fundable expense through the AFG.

    Quote Originally Posted by KEEPBACK200FEET
    but don't complain when the Hurst tool stops working in the middle of an extrication.
    as long as you don't complain when the guy running the Hurst keels over from a heart attack while running it.

    Quote Originally Posted by KEEPBACK200FEET
    A comprehensive health and wellness program should be a benefit that you are given when you are hired, and if it is a carrer dept, then it should be paid for by the city or county. There is no excuse for having to get a grant for this type of thing.
    In reality a working set of Hurst tools should be a benefit you also get when you are hired.....but in the real world certain things are not the way they should be. In a perfect world every firefighter would have the best training, wellness program and tools.....then there wouldn't be a need for any grants. Unfortunately, most of the people I know don't live in Utopia.

    Quote Originally Posted by KEEPBACK200FEET
    IF the department chooses to make exercise equipment available to it's firefighters, it should be bought with monies not coming from a fire grant.
    In your opinion....what is the most effective thing that can be done to reduce the deaths of firefighters?

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by KEEPBACK200FEET
    Construction workers don't lift weights on their lunch breaks on the company gym set, and the preacher doesnt get up out of the pulpit while preaching to go run a few miles. Physical fitness is a personal responsibility that should be taken care of in your off time.
    I'll go along with the idea that grants should be used for other things, but to say that physical fitness is not an integral part of being a firefighter is ludicrous.

    Construction workers don't work 24 hour shifts, they don't have to start work without the opportunity to stretch or warmup, and they certainly don't get jolted out of bed at 3am by horns and bells. They also don't have downtime that could be used more productively by working out instead of sitting in a chair waiting for a job. The preacher certainly doesn't spend 24 hours in the pulpit either.

    Riddle me this, Batman-with 50% of FF deaths attributed to heart attacks, NFPA standards requiring a physical fitness program and medical monitoring, and an agility test to get and often, keep, the job, how is physical fitness NOT part of the department's responsibility?

    BTW, I was working out on "my own time" long before we got decent equipment in the firehouses-but I'm in better shape with the opportunity to do cardio 6X a week than 3X. And no, we didn't buy our stuff with grant money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ameryfd
    Which is also a fundable expense through the AFG.



    as long as you don't complain when the guy running the Hurst keels over from a heart attack while running it.



    In reality a working set of Hurst tools should be a benefit you also get when you are hired.....but in the real world certain things are not the way they should be. In a perfect world every firefighter would have the best training, wellness program and tools.....then there wouldn't be a need for any grants. Unfortunately, most of the people I know don't live in Utopia.



    In your opinion....what is the most effective thing that can be done to reduce the deaths of firefighters?

    Physical fitness, on your off time or with equipment not purchased with grant monies. I mean damn, how many more times do I have to make my point? Better training. Knowing your enemy. Better equipment. Shall I keep going?
    Just know, I chose my own fate. I drove by the fork in the road and went straight.

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    Go put your pussy 2 1/2" lines away kiddies.

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    By the way KEEPBACK200FEET, you're so dramatic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by KEEPBACK200FEET
    Physical fitness, on your off time or with equipment not purchased with grant monies. I mean damn, how many more times do I have to make my point? Better training. Knowing your enemy. Better equipment. Shall I keep going?
    So let me see if I understand you: When creating the AFG, Congress was looking for away to decrease the dangers posed to firefighters. But the AFG shouldn't fund the easiest, most cost effiecent method of reducing the number one danger that firefighters face?

    Somewhere I'm missing the logic on that.

    44% of all on duty deaths due to heart attack:
    20% due to asphyxia and burns:

    Why wouldn't you "know your enemy" and attack the number one problem?

    Not saying equipment ect isn't a major function of the grant, but I think it's naiive to say that PF isn't as important as the equipment.

    I'd rather be in a building with a healthy firefighter carrying a 8 year old pike pole than a dead guy with a brand new pole.

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    Right from this website...

    Safety Group Challenges Unhealthy Firehouse Lifestyles

    http://cms.firehouse.com/content/art...Id=46&id=48949
    "When I was young, my ambition was to be one of the people who made a difference in this world. My hope is to leave the world a little better for my having been there."
    -- Jim Henson (1936 - 1990)

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ameryfd
    44% of all on duty deaths due to heart attack:
    20% due to asphyxia and burns:

    Why wouldn't you "know your enemy" and attack the number one problem?

    Not saying equipment ect isn't a major function of the grant, but I think it's naiive to say that PF isn't as important as the equipment.
    Because in his little world he has the same beliefs as others that PT is actually a fun activity. And therefore should be paid for by the individual. A physical therapist once told me he considered firefighters to be industrial athletes. And that is the proper frame of mind. PT is just as necessary to do the job as a Hurst Tool.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Sweet, attack my character and my little world.
    Just know, I chose my own fate. I drove by the fork in the road and went straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi View Post
    Go put your pussy 2 1/2" lines away kiddies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer343

    By the way KEEPBACK200FEET, you're so dramatic!

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    Default I respectfully disagree with some of you

    This is from America Burning Recommissioned (2002)

    Finding #9

    Firefighter Health & Safety

    ..." Fire departments should provide a wellness/fitness propram to maintain the medical, physical and behavioral health of all personnel/ The federal government should provide funding for fire department adoption of fitness/wellness programs based on the Wellness-Fitness Initiative and the CPAT of the IAFF and IAFC."

    As long as the leading cause of death among firefighters is stress/ heart attack related, I fail to see how Fire Grant Funding cannot be used to address this issue. Fire Grant Funding is not Homeland Security $$$$. The USFA was bureaucratized into what is now the DHS.

    The direct and indirect costs of the deaths are far more than the cost of a treadmill. At the end of the day, everyone goes home safe and everyone comes back for their next shift. How many more names do we need to see on the NFFF Memorial that but for the lack of a treadmill or a fitness program would not be there? I am looking at this from the perspective of someone who is on the outside looking in and I really don't get the arguments against this issue. You work hard, you train hard. The fire service has saved thousands of lives, saved millions of dollars of property, fought for improvements such as smoke detectors and residential sprinklers in this country. When will the fight for more funding for firefighter health and safety be as strong as the fight for better building codes, smoke detectors and residential sprinklers? When will we see the annual numbers of firefighters who die in the LOD from a heart attack be 0?

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    Who gives a fat rat's rump if a fire department wishes to spnd some of their grant money on a treadmill, stair machine or weights? The last time I checked, the one of the grant categories is firefighter health and safety.. of which fitness is a huge component.

    Gym quality treadmill: $4K
    PSO death benefit: $140K

    The way I see it..if you can prevent one firefighter from having a heart attack by being fit, we have already saved ourselves $136K. The $4K spent on the treadmill becomes one hell of a good return on an investment.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Whatever, think what you will. I, however, will not agree with it being bought with grant money.
    Last edited by KEEPBACK200FEET; 04-25-2006 at 12:48 AM.
    Just know, I chose my own fate. I drove by the fork in the road and went straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi View Post
    Go put your pussy 2 1/2" lines away kiddies.

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    By the way KEEPBACK200FEET, you're so dramatic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by KEEPBACK200FEET
    Whatever, think what you will. I, however, will not agree with it being bought with grant money.
    We can agree to disagree.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo
    The way I see it..if you can prevent one firefighter from having a heart attack by being fit, we have already saved ourselves $136K. The $4K spent on the treadmill becomes one hell of a good return on an investment.


    We received a Fire Act grant for exhaust removal systems and a wellness program in 2004 that included fitness equipment. I can say with certainty that the wellness program saved three of our firefighters' lives. It's worth it.
    ullrichk
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