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    Default 35' Ladders on an Engine?

    Has anyone ever heard of putting a full complement of ground ladders on an engine before. Or is it just my city that seems weird. I thought they made truck companies for that.

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    A full set of ground ladders on an pumper is called a quad. Think of a quint without the aerial ladder.

    I have seen several engines with 35' ground ladders. These were in rural communities with 3 story buildings and no ladder truck. A 35' ladder will get you to most 3rd floor windows for a rescue.
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    Our first out pumper carries the following:

    D/O side: 26' 3-section (yes, it does exist! Check Duo-Safety's catalog!)
    12' Roof

    C/O side: 35' 3 Section and a 14' Roof, plus folding attic ladder.

    Same truck carries 500 gal. of water and 1500' of LDH. Only problem is lack of compartment space.

    It has worked so well for us, we are now spec'ing a replacement for our second out pumper, and it shall carry the same complement of ladders, except we will have "Baltimore" style compartments on each side, and the laddders will be on a Zico drop-down rack.
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    Do you have roof racks that you carry your ladders on? When we put out the spec Pierce said they could not put a 35', 28', and two ground ladders on one drop down rack. Our chief only wants one ladder rack instead of two. I dont think this is possible, that has to be a lot of weight on one ladder rack. Another company that also put in a bid said they could do it though. We have two truck companies in the city already so I dont see the need to put all those ladders on an engine. Thoughts?

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    Default Question

    What is a Baltimore style compartment?

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    We run a pair of pumper tankers - (One to be delivered following FDIC ) each unit has dual hydraulic ladder racks carrying the following Duo - Safety ladders :

    2- 16' roof ladders
    1-20' two section
    1-24' two section
    1 - 35' three section
    1- 10' folding

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffmedic1006
    What is a Baltimore style compartment?
    hmmmmm....I have also heard them called "Broom Compartments"? Not full sized "rescue" style compartments- you have the full sized lower compartments in front of and behind the drive axle, then above the axle, spanning the length of the body are two long, or three short compartments that are only maybe 10 to 12" in height?

    And for the gentlemen who asked about the racks- our current engine has them mounted on permanent, non-moving racks (traditional style.) They are low enough that they are not a problem to get off. However with the new pumper and the raised height of the ladders caused by the addition of the Baltimore Compartments, we will have the ladders on Zico's racks that allow them to extend out and down, NOT the better, more well known "swing down from over the hosebed" style racks.
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    Default Thanks

    Never heard them called Baltimore compartments before, but broom compartments is a familiar term. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkasten
    Has anyone ever heard of putting a full complement of ground ladders on an engine before. Or is it just my city that seems weird. I thought they made truck companies for that.
    Our old 1974 Mack CF 600 pumper had a 3 section 35' ladder on it stored inside the water tank. all of the newer pumpers have 24' ladders & roof ladders. The 75' Aerialscope has 8 ladders from 14' - 35' and a Little Giant 17'.
    Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 04-23-2006 at 09:54 AM.

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    We have two engines with 3 section 35 and the other engine has a 24.
    FTM - PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by KenNFD1219
    I have seen several engines with 35' ground ladders. These were in rural communities with 3 story buildings and no ladder truck. A 35' ladder will get you to most 3rd floor windows for a rescue.
    My vollie department carries a 35' ladder for this very reason. We have a few structures where we need it, but not enough to warrant an aerial. First out truck has a 35' 3-section, 14' roof, and 10' folding. Second out has a 24' 2-section, 14' roof, and 10' folding. Our new pumper/tanker will also have the 24', 14', and 10'. With some of these new tall, steep-sloped roofs people are putting on houses, I've thought about trying to find a 20' long roof ladder to throw on one of the trucks for those times we need one.

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    My volunteer department once carried 3 section 35' ladders on each of our 3 front line pumpers. Once we placed our 95' LT in service the need for the 35' ladders on the pumpers went away and were replaced with 24' ladders.

    Our newest rescue/quint carries 2-16' roofs, 2-10' attic ladders and 2-35' ladders on 2 hydraulic ladder racks.

    Just some thoughts.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    There are a number of options available to avoid using two ladder racks. We've got an engine coming in July with a 35' extension and a 16' roof ladder on a hydraulic rack, and and a 24' extension, 12' roofer, and 10' folding ladder under the officer's side "tee" of the tank (the two hard suctions are under the engineer's side "tee")

    Ladders can be through the tank, under the tee of the tank, or stored on beam behind the highside compartments on whichever side you choose. We retrofitted an existing engine to carry a 24' ladder in the hosebed on beam and put a 35' on the bodyside ladder brackets when our aerial went out of service, and it really didn't impact hosebed space all that much.

    I'll vouch for the 26' 3-fly - we've got one on our interface style engine, and a neighbor has one through the tank on a rescue style pumper. Both of ours we're bought due to storage depth restrictions, and a 26 footer three-fly was the longest ladder we could put into the space.

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    My main engine carries a 35' 3 section, all the others carry 24', and a 14'. The main purpose of the 35 is just in case, the 24s will reach most everything so we use them mostly. Not a full complement but just what we carry since we have no truck.

    Birken

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    Default 35 Ft. Ladders On Engine

    Quote Originally Posted by kkasten
    Has anyone ever heard of putting a full complement of ground ladders on an engine before. Or is it just my city that seems weird. I thought they made truck companies for that.
    Charlotte NC FD have Dual Hydraulic Ladder Racks on their 10 Smeal Engines with a 16 ft. Roof and 28 ft. and 40 ft. Extension Ladders and Hard Suction Trays on each as well. This would be about the extent of the ladder complement due to the weight loading capacity of the ladder rack.

    They can be seen on the Smeal website www.smeal.com or by going to the dealer website www.metrolinafire.net

    Hope this helps.

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    We used to carry a 3 section 35 and a 14 roof. We now carry Duo 28' 2 section, 14' roof and 16' roof.

    As a 2 man engine company (even if we were a crew of 4) the 3 section 35 is very impractical. I understand the need for height in some cases, however any 2 ladders (of equal reach) will weigh more as a 3 section versus two section.. Example...Alco 24 2 fly is 75Lb, 3 section 24 is 105Lb. Going to a 3 section ladder from a 2 section seems to add 25-30 Lb per ladder.

    Our ladders must be able to be thrown by one or two FF's in the early stages of a fire, we simply cant spare any additional FF's.

    By switching to Duo brand ladders we also reduced the weight of equal sized ladders versus Alco. 87Lb 28', 28Lb 14' and 39Lb 16' versus 114, 42 and 48 for Alco. This allows our driver to throw all 3 ladders quickly rather than taking FF's away from other duties. I love the new ladders, they are a dream to work with

    Our photo shows seatbelts holding them on, thats only due to the brackets being broken on the rack. We have the Zico Quic-Lift Rack.

    Question...Why dont more departments spec 28' ladders on engines rather than 24'? Maybe because NFPA only says 24' as a minimum?
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    Last edited by MG3610; 04-25-2006 at 11:49 PM.

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    That's a good question about the 28 footer, but the only answer I can think of is with the increased use of ladder storage in the body, a 28 footer may just be too long to get in the body and not protrude too far into the pump house, etc.

    A department that hosted the academy that I went through had 35 foot two secton ladders on their truck company for the exact reason you have a 28 - the guys could throw the ladders much easier than a three fly and according to one of the officers, in a pinch some of the guys were capable of throwing a 2-fly 35 by themselves, especially with a full load of adrenaline. At 122 pounds though, I would have liked to have seen it.

    Obviously this is a long ladder, but if you've got a huge aerial with a long body - its a good idea to consider.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MG3610
    Question...Why dont more departments spec 28' ladders on engines rather than 24'? Maybe because NFPA only says 24' as a minimum?
    Maybe because, with shortstaffing, a 24' is the longest that your average FF can handle by himself. Not saying some can't handle a 28', just on average.

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    my volly dept carries a 35 3 fly 24 2 fly and a 14 & 10 foot roof ladders. nearest truck company is about 8 miles away
    engine 163 to command .. tell engine 165 we got it they can take up and return

    engine163 to county fire SEND ME EVERYTHING

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    We carry 24' ladders on two of our engines and a 35' three section ladder on our third engine. Closest ladder truck is 20 minutes away. We hope to change that soon....

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    We don't have a ladder truck. One engine has ladders up to 24ft. Another engine has ladders up to 35ft. The rescue also has ladders up to 24ft. Trust me, you aren't wierd. In the absense of a ladder truck, you have to put them somewhere.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Anyone that can't handle a 2 section 28' by themself needs to find another line of work.

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    The Duo Safety 2 section 28 is 16' when not extended. It weighs 87 Lbs. Cake work.

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    Oh yea, we affectionately refer to the 35ft extension ladder as the "Man Killer"
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Default Ladders

    Our 2nd out engine, formerly our front line pumper has a 35' ladder, a roof ladder, and an attic ladder.

    Our primary engine has a 24', roof, and an attic.

    Rural departments carry taller ladders because we don't have the luxury of getting truck froms everywhere or even a aerial. We decided that our new truck didn't need one because alot of times, when we first get on scene we don't have the manpower to throw a large ground ladder.

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