1. #1
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    Question Ground ladders for VES TEAMS

    How many firefighters use a ground ladder to break out windows and then enter. Our Department lives by the ifsta however Ive used that method and find it works easy. I found out this method by taking part in a VEST traininig course Vent Enter Search Team. They want us to ladder beside the window break glass then enter from the side.What do other departments do and Y?

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    We will usually use the ladder to break the glass, then position it under the window (slightly above the sill) asend it, finish clearing, then enter. An alternative is to use to break the window, but then position it alongside the window, asend it, finish clearing it, vent the adjoining window, then enter the first window by stepping in, and then rolling the ladder (by grabbing the tip) underneath the window you are now in (you want the ladder at the sill of a window you enter in case its needed in an emergency) I prefer the first method though.

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    I'm trying to remember back to the truck ops course that I took a few months back, but I thought when doing VES the ladder should be under the sill. I see what you are saying Matty and I believe we have the same thought behind it.

    If we are Venting, Entering, And Searching, we need to be able to cover all bases of the operation. The venting can be done with the ladder and then by placing the ladder under the sill, it is available for rescue (whether it be personal or for a civilian).

    I have not had the task of doing any VES tasks on the fireground yet, but this would be the way I would go at it without question.
    9/11/01 D.C. Joseph "Uncle Joe" Marchbanks
    Battalion 12
    Heaven In Harlem

    Tim
    CFD #143

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    More often then not, we use the ladder, and place it at the sill.

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    By using the ladder to break the window initially the room will burp. This allows a room you may have misread to vent prior to you being right in front of it. Finish clearing the glass and sash then enter, go to the door and close it, search then depending on conditions and stage of attack open the door and get out.
    By the way the IFSTA book said that it is ok to use the ladder to break glass.

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    I like to lay the ladder in, breaking the glass, then reposition to the sill. Climb, clean and enter.
    Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADSNWFLD
    By using the ladder to break the window initially the room will burp. This allows a room you may have misread to vent prior to you being right in front of it. Finish clearing the glass and sash then enter, go to the door and close it, search then depending on conditions and stage of attack open the door and get out.
    By the way the IFSTA book said that it is ok to use the ladder to break glass.
    Ive looked for this info in IFSTA and I could not find it? Chapt (9) ladders ???

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    IFSTA teaches you the basics...not the real world. I'm sure that MattyJ and PFDTruck18 have done a few VES entries, I'm a hose jockey so I can't really tell you. What I have learned in my brief career is that the book information is nice, but may not really be the most efficient way of doing business in the real world.

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    If you find yourself short staffed (never), the engineer often is tasked with placing another ladder for the interior teams additional egress. With ladder placement comes the horizontal vent. Of course this is a well coordinated procedure with the entry team(s). Having been in that situation once or twice (a week) I find it best to slide or flip the ladder from beam to beam and walk it down the wall (with those heavier ladders). This can place you an unacceptable distance from the pump panel. Weigh your issues carefully. The ladder is an effective tool for VES. One unacceptable shortcut is to perform this operation w/o full turnout gear. The glass sliding down the ladder beams as well as products of combustion, require a safe approach. Many engineers/pump operators work in less than full gear. Just a thought.
    "If Prometheus was worthy of the wrath of heaven for kindling the first fire upon earth, how ought all the Gods to honour the men who make it their professional business to put it out?"
    Smokey
    Local 4124

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    It isn't in the essentials book it is in the Fire service ground ladders. In special uses. It isn't right in front of me now but it should be in the same section with using your truck's main for the same thing.
    We had a huge blowout with a shift commander about this a few years back and we did find it in IFSTA, you should find it in ladders.

    My guess that it isn't in essentials because that book teaches the basics and this is beyond that somewhat.

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    Exclamation

    The Ladder issue in our fire Department is getting stupid they don't want us to break windows with the ladder all though he will let us vent a window with our 75' ladder?? Then all of a sudden they want us to wear body harnesses on ladders and tie off when we working off a ladder instead of using the leg lock or just breaking glass. He also wants us to tie off to the roof ladder when venting a roof. God for bid you sound the roof and walk on it what are we to do for a flat roof? Im all about safety but when does it get to far to be unsafe?? suggestions needed here. I sit on the training committee and the truckie job is becoming the pansie job. BUT HES THE CHIEF( God help us)

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    I don't see why wearing a harness is against the approval of you and your men. I think wearing a harness is a good idea and could wind up saving your life. If you wear something like the Gemtor harness, locking in is as effortless and uses minimal time as clipping your helmet around your head. It will go alone way with a minimal amount of effort.
    9/11/01 D.C. Joseph "Uncle Joe" Marchbanks
    Battalion 12
    Heaven In Harlem

    Tim
    CFD #143

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