1. #1
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    Default For the firearms afficianados

    Well, I went and visited the Coast Guard recruiter today to see if I met be able to enter as an officer - but that is another story......

    Lo and behold on the "propaganda rack" is a magazine and it seems that as of November 2005 the Coast Guard has been training and qualifying with their new service sidearm:

    SigSauer P229 R DAK chambered in .40 S&W. Double action only.

    It seems that since the Coasties are now part of the Department of Homeland Security a rather LARGE infusion of cash is entering the pipeline and this is part of their weapons upgrade. DHS is upgrading overall so they got in on the deal.

    Buried WAY down near the end of the article is the statement about needing "knockdown power."

    Here is the link to the magazine.

    http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/cb/CGMagazine.htm

    Click on the Issue 2 2006 and a PDF (Adobe acrobat) will open up of the magazine. Click to page 14.

    As an owner of 2 Sig Sauers I have to say that this is a nice choice.

    SigSauer page on the P229 R DAK:

    http://www.sigarms.com/Products/Show...&productid=119
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    Yeah, right, Coasties need knockdown power in their sidearms more than Marine SNCOs and weapons teams in Anbar Province

    That is not meant as a shot at the USCG, who I respect mightily, but for the way the federal government 1. selects equipment and 2. prioritizes spending.

    DaSharkie, say it isn't so, leaving the Corps behind AND going to the dark side as an officer? You need help paying for med school? Maybe Dennis, Vinnie and I can pass the hat, or call Navy Relief

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnyv
    Yeah, right, Coasties need knockdown power in their sidearms more than Marine SNCOs and weapons teams in Anbar Province

    That is not meant as a shot at the USCG, who I respect mightily, but for the way the federal government 1. selects equipment and 2. prioritizes spending.
    Actually Top, the Army and SOC are evaluating new sidearms now. I put a thread up a while ago about it. Requiring .45 caliber, double action only weapons. Seems that after being told time and time again that 9mm is garbage and Beretta 92Fs are junk they listened. Should have some sort of result in the near future. Until then, it is the grunt suffers in the name of politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by gunnyv
    DaSharkie, say it isn't so, leaving the Corps behind AND going to the dark side as an officer? You need help paying for med school? Maybe Dennis, Vinnie and I can pass the hat, or call Navy Relief
    You all can take up a collection and I will take the money anyway.

    Actually, the longer I am out of The Corps, the more I miss military life and serving. Just can't get away from it. I will never leave The Corps behind, it is a large part of what made me into the mature slimeball that I am.

    I figure that I am going to be HEAVILY in debt so I might as well get some help. I have always liked the mission of the Coast Guard so I feel a draw to it. It will only be a reserve commitment but with a high deployment unit. If all goes well anyway.

    The Navy has no billets for me, and the Army is well........let's just say it is the Army. I need some happiness and like other service's missions more than the Army's. Worse comes to worst, there is the ANG or Air Force Reserve.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie
    The Navy has no billets for me, and the Army is well........let's just say it is the Army. I need some happiness and like other service's missions more than the Army's. Worse comes to worst, there is the ANG or Air Force Reserve.
    Funny after reading that, to look down at your sig line...


    "Minister of bitterness and cynicism"

    No kidding...

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    Hey Sharkie,

    The Canadian Navy has been using the .40 Sig 226's for a while now. My little brother carried one on his boarding party duty, and loved it.

    I have not had a chance to fire it but did handle his, and it definitely has a nice feel and balance to it.

    I'm sure the coasties will be happy with it to.
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    My former agency switched from revolvers to semi-autos about 20 years ago. We first went to a 9mm S&W. It was poorly and cheaply made and had a high number of breakdowns. We test fired new weapons several years later and everybody loved the Sig. So they bought Beretta 92SB's. They were garbage. A couple of years later we test fired new weapons and everybody loved the Sig. So they bought H&K .40 caliber weapons. These were well made and offered a significant improvement in lethality. But still, the Sig was the best weapon we ever fired (IMHO).

    As far as knockdown power, the tests are indisputable. The .40 caliber round offers several advantages over the .45 in terms of ease of carrying and grouping. It also kicks the 9mm butt in terms of knockdown power.

    The USCG does alot more than rescue people. They are involved in narcotics interdiction and have heavy duty responsibilities in Homeland Security. Knockdown IS important to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcaldwell
    Hey Sharkie,

    The Canadian Navy has been using the .40 Sig 226's for a while now. My little brother carried one on his boarding party duty, and loved it.

    I have not had a chance to fire it but did handle his, and it definitely has a nice feel and balance to it.

    I'm sure the coasties will be happy with it to.
    Martin,

    You need to get to the range and squeeze a few off with a Sig. VERY nice indeed. Very smooth, easy breakdown (4 parts), and very well balanced. They tend to be a bit heavier than some other weapons, but they are nicely balanced and fit nicely into your hand. Like I said, I have two of them and both are exceptional weapons.

    And George is right, the Sigs are widely regarded as exceptional weapons. Now DHS joins a long line of agencies carrying these weapons. NYC approved them a few years ago, the Secret Service carries them, Mass. State Police, Michigan (I believe) and a lot of other agencies carry them.

    Just cannot beat them with a anything else out there - except maybe a 1911 from Kimber (my new baby.)

    Quote Originally Posted by gunnyv
    Funny after reading that, to look down at your sig line...


    "Minister of bitterness and cynicism"

    No kidding...
    Top, I just have high standards. I like the Air Force right now because I enjoy critical care medicine and the Air Force runs the largest hospital in Iraq and is responsible for airlifting out our injured Warriors to Landstuhl and on to CONUS. Looks like a good opportunity for me.

    I still have the Coasties in the top slot though.
    Last edited by DaSharkie; 04-25-2006 at 07:25 AM.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

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    Agreed on the experiences with Sig. Solid and reliable. Our PD is .40SW only, and Glock and Sig are about the only sidearms purchased (officers purchase their own, through a uniform allowance - Glock, Sig, S&W, and Beretta are the makes allowed).

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    A few thoughts and questions-

    - Didnt the CG use the Sig P228 a few years back?

    - I own a Sig and Glock. Did they test or consider the Glock? I assume they did. I am thinking light weight and ocean salt resistance would be a factor?

    - Was the Beretta 92 FS really that much of a piece of junk or was it a matter of lots of wear and tear? I have shot one before and found themt o be accurate and a good piece. (Keep in mind, I dont practice much)
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 04-25-2006 at 01:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    My former agency switched from revolvers to semi-autos about 20 years ago. We first went to a 9mm S&W.
    S&W...George- I'm sorry bro.

    BTW- I left the 9mm round back in 1997 and just returned to it. (bought two Sig P228s) Being in the fire service and seeing what the .22 and .38 rounds can do, I still have respect for the 9mm.

    Sure, knock down power is less, but then I am thinking about accuracy, use of hollow points, etc.

    Comments?

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    Someone help me refresh my crappy memory. Back around 1990 or so, the Corps switched side arms. Did they change from the 9mm back to the 45 or vise versa? For the life of me I can't remember. Can't say that I am a firearms afficianado but I do enjoy my recreational shooting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkfd7505
    Someone help me refresh my crappy memory. Back around 1990 or so, the Corps switched side arms. Did they change from the 9mm back to the 45 or vise versa? For the life of me I can't remember. Can't say that I am a firearms afficianado but I do enjoy my recreational shooting.
    While Berettas are the standard issue crap.......I mean innefective defensive tool........er, um I mean sidearm for the DOD, many groups within the DOD have retained other weapons.

    For the most part The Corps retains Berettas but on the MEU-SOC (Marine Expeditionary Unit - Special Operations Capable) a 1911 is often used in many elements as a side arm and is authorized by Headquarters Marine Corps.

    Detachment 1, the Corps' foray into Special Operations Command uses a Kimber 1911 model as their standard sidearm (which is anything BUT standard.) Most SOC units in the Army use 1911s in the .45 calibre.

    The SEALs have used many sidearms in the past chambered in .45, from H&K and Sig, but I am not sure what they are carrying now. Many aviators I have seen do not carry Berettas in their flight equipment - it is just too dang big.

    As for wear and tear, they have not held up from day 1. When I was in, I talked to our Battalion armorers and they hated them. They do not field strip well because they have too many parts. A Sig breaks down into 4 parts (5 if you separate the recoil spring from the guide rod) and is easily cleaned and maintained.

    Bou, as for salt air exposure - I can guarantee you that the ships' armorers will keep those weapons operating at optimal condition. The lives of their shipmates and themselves will depend on it. Good, proper, and consistent maintenance of the weapons will prevent any damage to them.

    As for 9mm, yes they can still do damage to a person, but what in the hell good is it if you have to drop 3 rounds into someone to do the same stopping that 1 round will do? In a hostile environment with limited ammunition, I will prefer to not need to expend more to do the same job.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

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    Thanks Sharkie! I love my Sig, but am still a Glock guy too.

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    That shotgun looks a little gimmicky to me. Certainly some limited uses, but if I'm breaching a door or improvised entry, I want to know I can fire off repeated rounds with reasonable accuracy. That thing would give you one shot, and with the sideways recoil you would never get it back on target.

    Plus with my luck I would have it turned left, and as I breached, I would suddenly be confronted from the right.

    I'll stick with the old fashioned inspection mirror on the barrel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CALFFBOU
    - Was the Beretta 92 FS really that much of a piece of junk or was it a matter of lots of wear and tear?
    I was in the Corps when we switched over (my bootcamp platoon was one of the last to shoot 1911's). I remember hearing about several instances where the slide of the 92's would crack at the back of the ejection port and fly off on firing, taking out the front teeth of the shooter. If you compair a Beretta to a Taurus (very simular guns) you'll see the sides of the slide are almost twice as thick in the Taurus. The 92 was also prone to magazine jams if it got dirty, a real problem in the Gulf where the sand was like baby powder.

    I still have respect for the 9mm.
    Ask the FBI guys who were involved in the Miami Matix/Platt shoot out what they think of 9mm's. Platt was hit 12 times by 9mm/38spec before he went down. Autopsey showed that the first hit was a fatal (lung shot), it just took a long time for him to bleed out. The last round hit him in the spine and ended the shootout. 2 FBI dead 5 wounded. The 10mm was invented because of this fight (which was eventually shortened to the .40S&W).

    When I was in the Gulf we had a guy commit suicide by shooting himself in the head with a 9mm. He lived for a week, and the Doc told me had we been in the states he would have survived (with some brain damage).

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    The .40 caliber round offers several advantages over the .45 in terms of ease of carrying and grouping.
    That may be true, but with a .45 you don't need to worry about grouping; put one round in an opponent, anywhere, and it'll take the fight out of them. LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie
    I will never leave The Corps behind
    And the Corps will never leave you behind. Semper Fi brother.
    Last edited by Fire304; 04-28-2006 at 11:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire304
    I was in the Corps when we switched over (my bootcamp platoon was one of the last to shoot 1911's).

    And the Corps will never leave you behind. Semper Fi brother.
    Hey when did you go to boot, what platoon? I also heard we were one of the last to shoot the 1911 in boot.

    It's a small world, you know, and the Corps is even smaller.

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    I entered late Jan 88, graduated April 26th 88 Platoon 1032.

    The 92 had already been adopted by the Corps in late 87, but Paris Is. was still shooting some really worn out 1911's. So worn we were told to hold the hammer back with our thumb while we racked the slide because the sear was so far gone several would go "full auto" when released. That was the first and last time I shot a 1911 in the Corps, every time after was a 92F.

    These last of the issued 1911's were horrible and gave many people a bad impression about the 1911, not because they were bad guns, they were just so worn you could use one as a baby rattle (a very, very heavy baby rattle). I own a fairly new 1911 that I used to shoot IPSC with, thing will make one ragged hole at 50 feet off the bench and is super reliable, only jam I've ever had was a semi wad cutter hand load that was seated too deep and hung up on the lip of the feed ramp. I love my 1911 and its the only pistol I have left.
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    I went to San Diego summer of 87, graduated with Platoon 1063 Aug 21. I had never fired a pistol before, and the only thing I knew about the 1911 was that it kicked like a mule. Never saw one again after boot. I've been shooting the 9mm since making Sgt in 93, and I've lost track of how many times the POS has stovepiped a round on me.

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    The only handguns I've owned have all been .357 Magnum revolvers and my only centerfire rifle is a Springfield M1A.
    I prefer the revolver and an M14 because I know they'll work and if I do my part,when they hit,the target knows it.
    Others can have differing opinions and that's fine by me.I know what works for me and they know what works for them.

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    Freaking Old Corps man. You guys still brasso'ing the plate steel of your body armor?


    And Top, you still have your original issue sunglasses from "Hollywood?"
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie
    still have your original issue sunglasses from "Hollywood?"
    You know I thought long and hard about bringing up that issue, but I figured that since this is a forum where brothers respect each other I would not mention that he was just a Hollywood Marine. Glad someone else did! Hahaha.

    Ough-rah!
    Last edited by Fire304; 04-29-2006 at 09:35 PM.
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    Only metal on my body armor is the old 1920's EGA I attached to the flap. It's my small attempt to honor the history of the Corps. Especially with all you disrespectful boots around.

    Funny thing is, I didn't even realize before I enlisted that there was another depot besides PI. 2 years after I went to SD, they changed the recruiting district boundaries and I would have gone to PI. You guys had the swamps, we had the mountains at Pendleton.

    Screw the sand fleas. Try living with watching/hearing the freedom bird take off a hundred times a day. You wanna see a ******ed off DI-be out on the grinder drilling and have a plane take off in the middle of the command, "By the Right Fla..VROOOOOOOOM". As mad as that made them, I'm still surprised they didn't knock planes out of the sky when they looked up.

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    It's all good Gentlemen. I have heard about some of those mountains. I am a flat lander (for the next year or so) so I would not have done too well there.

    Nothing like the stench of decay coming from those swamps at 0400 in the middle of August.

    Worst part was being in 1st Bn and looking out across the river and seeing cars just driving around on a Friday night during firewatch.

    Actually worse than that was realizing that on the day you graduate the bridge off of the island was spitting distance from the barracks.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

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    LOL, you too hu Sharkie? I could have walked right off the base while on firewatch, but then again I wanted to be there so I never would have. Ah, the sweet smell of Paris in the Spring, I lucked out having a late winter basic, we only had a month of heat (as I recall there were only about a dozen black flag days in April).

    You know I've always been a little jealous of Hollywooder's as they got to shoot the big guns in boot, Ma Duece and the Mk19. We had practice nades in our M203's and the biggest we shot was M-60's. That plus we didn't have the strippers come to graduation, but someone has to make the sacrifice!
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