Thread: LP Gas fire

  1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    19

    Default LP Gas fire

    i was wondering what the proper hose line and amount of water that should be used at a LPGas fire. Some guys say 2 1 1/2 inch lines, and some say 2 1/2 inch lines. i just wanna know which is right.

  2. #2
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,656

    Default

    I have been taught an absolute minimum of 500 gpm, though preferarbaly more, depending on the size of the vessel and the amount of flame impingement is required for any attack or cooling operations. If that mimimum flow cannot be maintained, firefighters should be withdrawn and the fire should be allowed to burn freely.

    Line size will depend on the operations being performed. If you are simply cooling the vessel from a distance, the lines should be 2.5" or greater (fog or solid bore) as you will want to maintain your distance from the tank and apply as much water as possible. If you are attempting an attack to shut down a valve, a combination of (2) 1.75" fog lines would be used to cover the crews approaching the tanks, and either 1.75" of 2.5" fog or solid bore lines could be used to cool the tank.

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber
    mcaldwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Panorama, British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    3,022

    Default

    I'll agree with La here. There more the better.

    I would consider 1 1/2 inch lines as totally inadequate on anything more than a BBQ tank. 2 1/2 inch lines as a minimum, and multiple for anything bigger than a 1000lb tank.

    For Rail and Tractor Drawn tanks, at least 2x 2 1/2, and quite possibly a monitor/deck gun if you have it, and can sustain it.

    Perhaps someone has a custom fireflow calculation for that, but anyone who says 1 1/2 inch lines are adequate has bigger balls (and maybe less brains) than I.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

    IACOJ

  4. #4
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    19

    Default

    haha, i agree. i told the dude that a 1 1/2 inch line was not even close to what u need to use. but the reason i ask this is because in the county where i am, every house has either LPGas or Butane. most homes have a 500 gallon tank, but there r a few that r larger. we also have rail lines that run through here, so of course there is always the danger of a rail car fire. then we even have 2 or 3 tanks that r like 30,000 gallon tanks, maybe even larger. i would hate to get a call to that. but for the tanks that are butane and not LP, would u attack the fire the same????

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    You want to prove that you need big lines and lots of H2O on a LPG fire?

    Google search the incidents in Kingman Arizona and Crescent City, Illinois for starters.
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 04-28-2006 at 09:57 PM. Reason: City isn't spelled with 2 y's!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber
    AC1503's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    325

    Default

    Sufficient GPM for cooling is a definate concern. I don't think that you can have too much flow. The unknown of how long the tank has been exposed to impinging flame can be the killer factor. It is quite possible that a tank will rupture and BLEVE before the cooling streams can be deployed. Some brothers were killed and others injured when a large farm LP tank failed a couple of years ago. It was in Iowa, I believe. Anyway, they didn't have a chance to begin operations, as it BLEVED upon the Fire Company's arrival.

    Propane, Butane, or a mixture of the two, makes no difference. It will all BLEVE and kill you.

    IACOJ
    Last edited by AC1503; 04-27-2006 at 09:47 PM.

  7. #7
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Marble Rock, Iowa
    Posts
    219

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AC1503
    Some brothers were killed and others injured when a large farm LP tank failed a couple of years ago. It was in Iowa, I believe. Anyway, they didn't have a chance to begin operations, as it BLEVED upon the Fire Company's arrival.
    I believe the incident you are refering to is the one in Albert City. From the information I was given they weren't even able to get water flowing before it went. Just goes to show how fast things can happen at LPG gas fires. And how bad the results can be.

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber
    EFD840's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Eclectic (no, NOT electric), Alabama
    Posts
    1,510

    Default

    i was wondering what the proper hose line and amount of water that should be used at a LPGas fire. Some guys say 2 1 1/2 inch lines, and some say 2 1/2 inch lines. i just wanna know which is right.
    As has been already stated, it depends greatly on the size of the vessel and its proximity to the fire.

    The National Propane Gas Association offers free training materials to first responders. You can get information on the program at www.propanesafety.com . It is a pretty good program.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. World Of Fire Report: 11-08-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-12-2005, 01:06 AM
  2. World Of Fire Report: 09-06-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-07-2005, 08:39 AM
  3. World Of Fire Report: 03-04-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-06-2005, 03:50 PM
  4. World Of Fire Report: 01-21-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-22-2005, 05:32 PM
  5. World Of Fire Report: 11-15-03
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-16-2003, 07:35 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register