New Pierce Pricing Questions

[NCFirepup]

Our department is getting ready to purchase a new Dash Pumper and I wanted to see if anyone could verify some of the prices. I am not particularly enthused about our dealer because of past service issues but they seem to be ripping us a new one on some of the minor parts.

Does anyone know if there is a difference in the PRICE of a Detroit vs. a Cummins engine? I am not looking for debates; we run both and have had excellent service with both.

On a 2000 GPM pump does Pierce have a price difference between the Hale and Waterous pumps? We have both and I am curious about which is really more expensive.

I read somewhere in this forum that the TAK-4 suspension were offered from $7,000 is this an accurate figure for a Dash Chassis?

Thanks!

[npfd801]

I'll answer the questions I can to the best of my knowledge. Please be aware I sell for a Pierce competitor, but I'm not here to slam them.

For us, Cummins is the cheapest motor choice for a given horsepower. I think Cat is next, then Detroit. This does not mean though that Pierce doesn't have a deal with one motor builder that may give them better pricing for another brand.

Not sure on pumps for Pierce, but keep in mind Waterous is only a fairly short distance away from Pierce, while Hale is in PA. I would suspect the freight savings is fairly substantial.

I sat in a classroom session here in Indy today at FDIC regarding apparatus options, and the speaker from LA City Fire stated that the independent front suspension option they chose was right at $7,000, and they were using Pierce.

If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.

[NCFirepup]

Thanks for responding, I have done much research on our Pumper and the figures we were given just did not add up in my opinion. I am not here to dealer bash or anything like that I just wanted an educated response.

Many Thanks!

[oldestwiseowl]

7000 dollars sounds about correct for many options offered in a Pierce package according to the mechanic in this area so I would say that sounds right.

[lvwrench]

Since there are none of the manufacturers that I am aware of that sell their product directly but opt to use dealers it is up to the dealer to decide what they want for a profit line for their buisness. I know that we get discounts for multiple units, prepay etc. I have called around to the various component makers to get their price versus what the dealer is showing for costs on the bid sheets and they don't seem to jive. Then again a person has to factor in the price that the maker charges as a profit and then the dealer tacks in a percentage for themselves and so on. For those on low budgets it is probably more cost effective to go with the smaller companies. Everything depends on your relationship with the dealer and their willingness to work with you and desire to have you as a customer. After the sale service is extremely important to me.

[Ledebuhr1]

Do the manufactures do the bidding on a new truck, then give the price to the dealer who then adds their profit margin?

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

All the ones I have dealt with the dealer makes the pricing. The only thing that has to get priced from the manufacturer are custom changes that haven't been done often enough to be included in the options listings.

[Catch22]

In regards to the pumps, we found out when we ordered our new truck that Waterous was a bit cheaper. We went from the 1,500 Hale to a 1,750 Waterous and saved around $4,000. I don't know if it was because the builder had deals with Waterous or not, so that may come into account with a different manufacturer (our isn't a Pierce).

[Ledebuhr1]

I was under the inpresson the builder bid the truck. Dont you need some engineering experinence to know what can and cant be done? How does a dealer know how much it will cost a builder to make a rig. I though they had inifinate amount of options.

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

The options are already listed and priced. X for rollup doors, Y for this motor/tranny, etc, etc. The price of every piece of equipment that can be put on a truck is already known. The only things that need to get cleared are the things that haven't been done before or often. When we had the bumper designed for our heavy rescue, it hadn't been done before like that so that's when the engineers got involved. They had to design it out before they could know how much labor and materials would be needed. Otherwise with a stock truck design the price is known at the dealer level.

[npfd801]

Unless sales are factory direct, your dealer will usually put together a spec package, submit it to the factory for their pricing (they'll already have a good idea but get their blessing), get their response, add their commission and submit a bid. This is the time when a builder's engineers will look at the specs and options desired, and make sure the rig can indeed be built as the customer wishes.

Many of the program apparatus are price controlled to keep things standard across a market, but a dealer can see fit to add whatever amount he wishes to a rig to be the dealer's profit. If he's greedy and thinks you're a sure sale, you can bet the number will likely be higher. If you keep the sales people on their toes and if they want your business they'll cut the commission down to be competitve.

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

Hence the reason you write non-vendor specific bid specs using the magic words "or equivalent". Amazing how prices drop when that happens. I modified one spec for someone from the version that the salesperson wrote into a generic one and told them to send it for rebid since only one rep could meet it.

The next week on the same truck that same dealer's price dropped $20K. I wouldn't have bought it myself, that's the sure sign they had $20K of extra profit on a $170K truck. But that's just me.

[Fire304]

Dont you need some engineering experinence to know what can and cant be done?

IMHO that's a major problem with some salesmen, they won't say no regardless of how stupid or complicated an FD request is. As a result you'll see in some of these forums people saying stuff like "Dealer X and Y told me it couldn't be done the way we spec'd it, but dealer Z said no problem (like a single axle 3000gal tanker), therfore Brand Z is the best truck around." No, X and Y were the smart ones who didn't want to spend the next 5 years getting your truck to work right.

The price a municipality pays for a truck breaks down someting like this:

$ of truck from factory
$ of shipping and prep
$ of dealer profit
$ of saleman's commision
$ to town

When you are able to get the price reduced it comes mostly out of the salesman's cut and occationally the dealer will take a cut to make a big sale. A portion of the dealer's cut is allocated to the truck for installing equipment and "give aways" to make the customer happy. If they don't give it to you they keep it, so always ask for free stuff, you've already paid for it.

[NewJerseyFFII]

IMHO that's a major problem with some salesmen, they won't say no regardless of how stupid or complicated an FD request is. As a result you'll see in some of these forums people saying stuff like "Dealer X and Y told me it couldn't be done the way we spec'd it, but dealer Z said no problem (like a single axle 3000gal tanker), therfore Brand Z is the best truck around." No, X and Y were the smart ones who didn't want to spend the next 5 years getting your truck to work right.

The price a municipality pays for a truck breaks down someting like this:

$ of truck from factory
$ of shipping and prep
$ of dealer profit
$ of saleman's commision
$ to town

When you are able to get the price reduced it comes mostly out of the salesman's cut and occationally the dealer will take a cut to make a big sale. A portion of the dealer's cut is allocated to the truck for installing equipment and "give aways" to make the customer happy. If they don't give it to you they keep it, so always ask for free stuff, you've already paid for it.

Are there any apparatus sales people out there who can tell us how many percent commision do they make on a new fire truck sale ? Also on the Pierce fire apparatus web site under Chassis Cabs it lists the " Tac 4 " as being standard equipment on all custom chassis except on the ( Saber ) !...

[pocambu]

The place I used to work for (I left on good terms) I was paid 30% of the net profit. I made a monthly draw against future comission.

[NCFirepup]

Also on the Pierce fire apparatus web site under Chassis Cabs it lists the " Tac 4 " as being standard equipment on all custom chassis except on the ( Saber ) !...

I think that is more of a double standard at the moment, the price sheet we have listed it as an option. The price we were quoted for it was SEVERAL thousand dollars more than the $7,000 discussed here.

[npfd801]

Every sales organization is different. Since I'm actually employed right now doing this, I won't elaborate on what I earn per truck sale, but will say that I also earn a salary, so I don't live or die by what I earn on every truck.

Then again, if I don't sell anything, that salary won't be around very long either...

[thetatooisreal]

When my department purchased trucks with the tak 4 suspension the price was different depending on the axle size. The price was higher for the truck with a larger front axle and less for the other truck that had a smaller axle weight or size.

[Ledebuhr1]

I thought that all Tak-4's were rated for 24k lbs. So there is different strength
Tak-4's?
I knew there were different axle ratings for solid axels but not Tak-4.

[BVFD1983]

http://www.flsheriffs.org/content/44...-Bid-Award.pdf

Starting on page 47 it has a breakdown on what various options cost from several manufacturers.