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Thread: Check this out

  1. #1
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    Default Check this out

    Tanker Fire

    I accidently put this in the wrong forum and could not figure out how to delete it and repost. Take and look and let us hear what you think? The picture just jumped out at me. I think it weighs discussion.

    Entire story
    Last edited by captstanm1; 05-01-2006 at 02:22 PM.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
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    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.


  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber mcaldwell's Avatar
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    Default

    I deleted my post in the junior thread to let the kiddies have at it first.

    But it went something like this:

    WTF is going on there. That must be a training fire with a non-pressurized, non-flammable, and empty container. There are just too many violations of the cardinal rules of tanker ops.

    -Too close to hazard
    -Too many people
    -Terrible location at the ends of the tanker (but it doesn't look like a pressure vessel)
    -Not enough water, and improperly directed streams (possibly mixing water and foam, hard to tell)
    -Improperly worn PPE

    So assuming it is just training, great opportunity to use a real tanker, but I prefer the train as you fight methodology. Bad habits developed during training can be carried into the real thing.

    If that is a real incident...
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber mcaldwell's Avatar
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    Default

    Wait, I just found your link to the article.

    Holy flammable cargo Batman! Three tankers full of flammable petroleum products. Non-pressurized, but still a hell of a lot of fuel there. I have to say that operation looks a whole lot more casual that I feel comfortable with.

    However having said that, the article says it was a 36 hour fire, and I must assume those pics are near the end (although I still don't like it, as an empty and cracked tanker is more likely to blow the vapour).
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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  4. #4
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Default

    Having read the article and looked at the pictures I am in agreement with mcaldwell. WTF?

    If the plan is to cool the tank and let it burn out, set up mater streams feed them with ldh and get the Hell out of there. If that thing blew it would have killed everyone in the pictures, with or without proper PPE. Either put it out or cool and let it burn. But don't needlessly put your people in a situation like that if they don't have to be there.

    FyredUp

  5. #5
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    Even a no pressurized tank can fail and rupture or spill it's contents. Regardless of the time frame during the event......to have that many folks ( I count at least 9 that we can see) just standing there in various levels of PPE is an invitation for disaster.

    I agree...hook up the LDH.....leave the monitors and go back to the safe zone and eat all the food that the auxillary has brought for you (while you still have the teeth to do it.

    The other thing that seems apparent is that the entire thing is in a rural area....another reason to maintain distance.......risk vs benefit.
    Last edited by captstanm1; 05-05-2006 at 01:27 PM.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  6. #6
    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Guess they never heard the term BLEVE.
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    MembersZone Subscriber SteveDude's Avatar
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    Default

    We were shown a video of a BLEVE somewhere in the US way back when I was at Training School. The video was quite new then I guess it was made in the early-mis 80's.

    These Guys obviously never saw that video.
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  8. #8
    Forum Member WBenner's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    GET out of dodge. Thats crazy. Lay your big guns and get the hell out of there. Thats (CHAOS) at its best - Chief Has Arrived On Scene.. Im sure the guys didnt want to be that close lol.. But they just following orders.

  9. #9
    firefighter7160
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    Talking Funny

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983
    Guess they never heard the term BLEVE.
    This is what they said when asked about a Bleve....
    "BLEVE???? Is that one of those hollywood thing's""That never really happens". LMAO

  10. #10
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    Well...in this case the tank is not a pressurize one (note that it has two manways). But none the less if you look at the article that include more pictures you will see what "appears to be" other tanks that may be pressurized as someone has already pointed out. Even if the tanks are not under pressure, they are certainly under stress (accident + flame impingement) which results in a compromise of the integrity of the tank and they could certainly fail.

    My emphasis was mainly on positioning as well as PPE (or lack of) and the seemingly laid back approach (everyone standing around) of the responders. But the responses have been good.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  11. #11
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    Lightbulb tanker fire

    With all the positive imput to the situation, I hope the dept.(s) that had to handle this potentil Bleve, have learned something to their benefit. Because the next time they may not be as lucky to survive the outcome.
    The "Bleve" movie I also viewed many years ago also.

    Err on the side of safety, and make sure that everyone goes home safe.

  12. #12
    Forum Member DonSmithnotTMD's Avatar
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    Default

    BLEVE -- polemerization -- rupture -- failure -- just plain blowed the f___ up -- sounds dangerous
    I am a highly trained professional and can find my :: expletive deleted:: with either hand in various light conditions.

  13. #13
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    Read the story and the post of someone who was there in the other tread-
    It was nothing more than a boring controlled burn. As I posted in the other thread, if you ever go to a real haz-mat, some people may be shocked to learn that allowing a chemical to burn off may be best choice to midigate the situation. So you put the fire out, now you have 30,000 gallons of a flammable hazardous liquid flowwing on the ground, what you goling to do, put you 10 gallon kiddie pool uner it to cantain it? Have a bunch of earth moving equipment and dump trucks drive through the hot zone to dyke it?
    BLEVE? Of any pictures posted or in the article, where do you see any indication of a bleve? Any tank reliefs blowing? Is the product burning under intense pressure? Is there any indication of tank deformity?
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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  14. #14
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    I think the point is this....Despite the fact that it was a "control burn" the apparent lack of concern for safety in the form of people standing around in various levels of clothing is a safety concern. Just how many people do you need to stand and observe unmanned monitors flowing water on a burning tank car (pressurized or not) that is no immediate danger to people except those watching it. Set them up and go to the staging area and eat the donuts!

    Yes....I am on a Haz Mat Team and have been to many long drawn out events.......
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  15. #15
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    Set them up and go to the staging area and eat the donuts!

    Now we are talking!
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
    Elevator Rescue Information

  16. #16
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDude
    We were shown a video of a BLEVE somewhere in the US way back when I was at Training School. The video was quite new then I guess it was made in the early-mis 80's.

    These Guys obviously never saw that video.
    I'm pretty sure we saw that same video, stevedude, was it the one where a firefighter on ladder and camera man disappear from the planet forever

  17. #17
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    Unhappy bleve video

    yeah i saw the same video. kinda scary. that guy on the ladder must have been thrown pretty far.

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