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  1. #1
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    Default Age/Gender standards?

    Our city attourney has told the department that to be legally defensible there must be one standard for all, no variance for age or gender.

    The city is still working up the test-could be a run, max bench press, pushups, vertical leap, sit-ups like PD uses or could be a job related test, could be both.
    We have been told that until there is one standard for all incumbents that failing the CPAT test cannot be held against new hires.

    How does your department handle it?


  2. #2
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    Default

    The CPAT is a certified agility program that was developed in part to minimize legal problems.

    Just because a candidate passes the CPAT doesn't mean they will pass the academy.
    ______________________________ _______________

    "Nothing counts 'til you have the badge . . . Nothing!"

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  3. #3
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    Default

    I'll try to explain better this time.

    Our city has used the CPAT test for 5 years or so when testing new hires. The test results have no meaning-pass, fail, quit after 30 seconds on the treadmill-no difference. I believe this is due to the city's refusal to sign the license. The mayor and Pres. Schaitberger had one on one and the city quickly signed the license(I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall for that meeting). The legal dept. now says that the test still cannot be used as a pass/fail due to the lack of incumbent testing.

    Two different test are being considered, one developed for local law enforcement, and a job related test.

    The PD test is mile and a half run, max bench press, max sit-ups, max push-ups, vertical leap and grip strength. The job related test is climbing the tower with a hose pack, dragging hose-etc.

    When PD does their testing they must bench 70% of body weight(100 for SWAT) and there are different standards on other parts for age/gender.

    Legal has told us we must have one standard for the department. The standards are developed by sample testing. The biggest problem being the bench press-the women on the department will all be required to bench more than their body weight.

    The PD test will probably be the most likely one we will use.

    How do you handle this in your incumbent testing?

  4. #4
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    Default Do less with age!

    The city I work for has a fit test and a job task requirement that new hires have to meet and operations personnel have to successfully complete each year.

    The fit test is: sit-ups, body fat percentage, bench press, sit and reach (tests flexibility), and 1 1/2 mile run or 3 mile walk.
    Recruits must run the 1 1/2 mile in 13 mins to graduate recruit school. However, once you make it to the station your requirements are based on your age and gender for the sit ups and run or walk. Take me for instance, I am 25, for me to pass the 1 1/2 mile run (score of 75) I must run it in under 13 minutes, at under 12 minutes I would get an 80. If I chose to walk 3 miles I would have to complete it in around 37 minutes for a 75. When I hit 30 if I run the 1 1/2 mile in under 13 minutes I would get an 80. A female the same age as me can get a 75 by running in under 14 mins or right around there. I know it is confusing but somehow they get away with letting older people and females have more time for the run and walk. Also as you age you have to do fewer sit ups to obtain a higher score.

    The job task is across the board, everyone must complete the same tasks in the same amount of time. It consists of a dummy drag, uncharged 3" hose drag, connecting to a hydrant, turning the hydrant on and off, hose hoist, and tower climb with airpack and high rise pack (5 stories). All this must be completed in 10 mins 30 seconds I believe.

    I wish we would go to the CPAT for our fit test but I don't think that is going to happen.

    Dan

  5. #5
    Forum Member rookiemove's Avatar
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    Default

    Dan - I can't understand why your city attorney is dissing the CPAT for entry-level hires. Are there any cases where it has not withstood legal challenge? I haven't heard of any, but maybe someone else has.

    The kind of test your department is considering (like the PD test) seems AWFUL for determining entry-level suitability for firefighting in that it's not task-oriented. It also will create hostility because everyone won't be held to the same ABSOLUTE standards. If everyone has to bench press a percentage of their weight or run 1.5 miles in a time based on their age, then many will feel that the geezers and the women are getting an unfair break.

    Why does your city attorney want to reinvent the wheel instead of just going with what is becoming the STANDARD physical test for entry-level firefighters? If your city attorney is so worked up about people suing over the CPAT, why not refer him to www.wfsi.org, which is the Web site for a women firefighter organization. They seem pretty positive about the CPAT.
    Last edited by rookiemove; 06-10-2006 at 02:38 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Iaff

    Your best bet is to contact the IAFF and talk to them about how the CPAT "should " be handled. They have all the avenues covered. San Antonio Fire had the CPAT challenged and instead of them going to the IAFF for advice they tried to handle it in house and lost. The IAFF will support any city with CPAT. At least this is my understanding.

  7. #7
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    Default CPAT Issues

    I am a CPAT evaluator for my dept. and after watching the potential new recruits this past weekend I have developed a few issues with it. I don't like how is strictly a pass/fail. We have no other fitness testing component (run, weights, etc...) so this is it. We can get some guy struggle through and pass with 2 seconds left and he gets the same score as someone who breezes through with 3 minutes left? I don't like it...pass/fail gives no reward for people who work their asses off.

  8. #8
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    Default

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    Last edited by C7Henry; 12-01-2006 at 05:16 PM. Reason: lllllllll

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