1. #51
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    It's your choice to protect your body or abuse it.

    In my case, it's not. The department has chosen to protect us with SOPs requiring thier use in any smoke situation, except brush.

  2. #52
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    LOOK...READ MY LIPS...since you can't appear to comprehend what I am writing.

    1) When the situation calls for it I wear my mask.
    2) AFA, get full PPE with an SCBA on my back with my mask hanging from my neck ready to be quickly donned.
    3) Car fires get a mask
    4) Interior work on a structure fire gets a mask
    5) On my career FD roof venting gets a mask
    6) CO calls when they are about 35ppm gets a mask


    I am not saying don't have an scba on your back, I am not saying don't wear your mask in a hazardous environment. So please be smarter than that and stop making it sound like that's what I am saying.

    What I am saying is in my humble opinion it is foolish to get off the rig with the mask on your face and waste precious time trying to accomplish work on the fireground that doesn't require immediate use of your scba.

    I am also saying that an SOG that requires you to dismount the rig breathing air simply is beyond my comrehension of WHY you would have that rule. Honestly it sounds to me like a rule implemented by someone that is NOT a firefighter. Because where I work and even where I volly there are buildings that if you masked up before you got close to the hazard area you better bring at least one spare bottle with you because you will be out of air before you ever get there. Especially if you are advancing hose or carrying a hose bundle for a standpipe. Sorry, unless every fire you have is a single family dwelling with access right off the street of 50 feet or less this is a tremendously bad idea.


    It's your choice to protect your body or abuse it.

    In my case, it's not. The department has chosen to protect us with SOPs requiring thier use in any smoke situation, except brush.
    Now LA this is entirely different in context to what you have been saying. There is a great difference between wearing your scba in smoke and what you said earlier about dismounting the rig breathing air EVERYTIME at a structure fire. So please tell me which is it?

    FyredUp

  3. #53
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    engine compartment fire? probably handle it with a booster line, no pack need.
    fully involved car fire? yeah, i'll have a pack on, and if it's really going, on air too.

    I have an FNG question about this. If it's fully involved with no one inside, wouldn't that be a defensive situation? Actually, a vehicle fire with no victims seems like a low gain scenario. If possible, save some property, but don't get killed in the process. What I'm saying is cool it, put it out, but there's no reason to be aggressive.
    I am a highly trained professional and can find my :: expletive deleted:: with either hand in various light conditions.

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    We are conservative with our air, would use it more if the nearest fill for us wasen't 26 miles away. Our area is slow so we get away with filling that afternoon or the next day, this is going to bite us someday.
    Stay Safe ~ The Dragon Still Bites!

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    Fryed ...

    If you look at one of my previous posts, you will see that it is our department's policy (as well as my previous department) to mask up in the truck, which is silly. I do and always have disagreed with that SOP unless it is a reported vehicle fire, where you would get off the rig and go to work right away. I have always disagreed with that policy ... but rules are rules.

    What I am saying is that SCBA should be worn in any and ALL smoke enviroments, including light smoke in structures. THis includes dumpster and vehicle and OUTSIDE of structure fires as well when working in the smoke.
    I do disagree with masking up in the rig, unless a vehicle fire, and have said that in my posts.

  6. #56
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    Talk about safety going well beyond the extreme...

    It's taking it right past safe.

    I have an FNG question about this. If it's fully involved with no one inside, wouldn't that be a defensive situation? Actually, a vehicle fire with no victims seems like a low gain scenario. If possible, save some property, but don't get killed in the process. What I'm saying is cool it, put it out, but there's no reason to be aggressive.

    You're not even saving property. The car is toast; there is no value to it.

    You may be preserving some crime evidence, you may even find a body.

    However, the primary reason is marching up and extinguishing the fire is it is the best way to handle the hazard -- fire goes out, you're no longer playing the "what if this happens" scenarios.

    I have seen similiar heavily involved car fires extinguished with 700 gallons...and 50 gallons. Depends on the training, skill, and complacency level of the crew.

    There are known common risks, and those can be handled easily but simple steps -- take 7 seconds to throw your mask on, approach from a corner, put the fire out. Put the fire out, the risks go away.

  7. #57
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    I see alot of people in here are the outside firefighters, as for my dept. Are SOP was hard learned. It was only wrote up because of a warehouse fire we had 5 years ago. It was the middle of summer and around 90F outside. Some firefighters had taken of there PPE. Two firefighters on the southside of the building opened an overhead door and were burned, one over 40% of his body. After this, new rules were written. Yes they went all the way. But the folk's downtown are covering there butt's and are's. And as for masking up in the truck, the scott mask's has never foged up on me. I wear mine just about every day I work. When the truck stop's we are in the house in less then two min's. Most the time I go on air as I walk to the house, or as I pull the line. Do it anoff and your use to it. Some say are dept. is one of the most aggresave FD's in the state. Because we will go in on 75-80% involved structure's. But thats how we fight fire. Not every dept. does it the same way. Stay I good shape and you should get 15-20 MIN's out of your bottle. But as ive seen most firefighter's are not in the best shape.

    Some post have wrote about not going right to work at a fire. So they dont have to be on air. Now thats funny...... What do you guy's do watch and see how long it will take for the roof to fall in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM
    Yeah, more of the: everyone's right, no ones wrong, touchy feely crowd. I guarantee that you cannot get as accurate a read on the fire building with a mask on. Period. You have restricted visibilty and peripheral vision, even before you fog up. And to not fog up? Must be the weather, cause I've yet to see a perfect mask that prevents fogging when it less than 98.6 F. Sometimes it doesn't happen, great. But firefighters need to reAd the building and performa personal size-up of the conditions and wearing a mask and running to grab the knob ignoring everything else like some insane whacker will not serve you well in a career of firefighting.
    All I'm saying is this is what I prefer to do. Nobody from my company has had a problem with sizing up the building with our masks on. If you don't want to wear your mask in the rig, then don't, I won't knock you for it. And if you think my department is a bunch of whackers for doing this, then fine...even though it's kind of absurd to think so being that you've never seen us do the job. But that's okay. I guess we all need to fight fire like you do. Since we don't do it the way you like, I'll be at HQ tomorrow and we'll get all of our SOPs changed to fit you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TurdFergeson
    All I'm saying is this is what I prefer to do. Nobody from my company has had a problem with sizing up the building with our masks on. If you don't want to wear your mask in the rig, then don't, I won't knock you for it. And if you think my department is a bunch of whackers for doing this, then fine...even though it's kind of absurd to think so being that you've never seen us do the job. But that's okay. I guess we all need to fight fire like you do. Since we don't do it the way you like, I'll be at HQ tomorrow and we'll get all of our SOPs changed to fit you.
    Hmmm... I guess LAFD, Pheonix FD, Chicago, FDNY, Boston, Detriot, Philly, DC and thankfully the largest percentage of FDs here in the US must be wrong? Some of us actaully like to know where windows and doors might be before we go in? Or if there's a victim lying in the bushes, the arsonist running down the alley, the number of mailboxes on the porch or meters on the #4 wall? You know, little things that get missed when your vision is even partailly obscured and/or your in an all out race to grab the knob and get in the building as fast as you can. Or does everyone in a mask take a walk around and do their size-up first? Hell, that was one of the reasons Pheonix gave as why they're removing SCBA's fromt he cab and jump seats. They want their personnel to slow down and read the building better!

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    For me everything with the exception of a grass fire will get a pack. If I don't think air will be needed I won't don the mask, but I'll have the pack on.

    This sometime draws criticism from my other firefighters who do not think a pack is needed, even for alarm calls. Until the day that alarm turn into a worker and they all have to run back to the truck for packs , and I'll be at the nozzle ready to go !
    LT/EMT Wright
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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM
    Hmmm... I guess LAFD, Pheonix FD, Chicago, FDNY, Boston, Detriot, Philly, DC and thankfully the largest percentage of FDs here in the US must be wrong? Some of us actaully like to know where windows and doors might be before we go in? Or if there's a victim lying in the bushes, the arsonist running down the alley, the number of mailboxes on the porch or meters on the #4 wall? You know, little things that get missed when your vision is even partailly obscured and/or your in an all out race to grab the knob and get in the building as fast as you can. Or does everyone in a mask take a walk around and do their size-up first? Hell, that was one of the reasons Pheonix gave as why they're removing SCBA's fromt he cab and jump seats. They want their personnel to slow down and read the building better!
    Can you tell me where I said those that didn't mask up in the rig were doing it wrong? What I remember is saying what I did, and that if others didn't want to do as I did, then that was fine. Again, I see just fine out of my mask, so it's not an issue for ME . You are right that things can be missed, but that can happen even if you're not masked up and in a hurry to get the knob. As for me, I wait for my officer's instructions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TurdFergeson
    Can you tell me where I said those that didn't mask up in the rig were doing it wrong?
    No, and that is one of my pet peeves. Why not tell me I'm wrong? Trust me you don't have to respect my opinion as most of us probably don't really respect opposing opinions until they are proven to us. This is part of the "p*ssification" of the fire service., we never just tell people they're wrong. I'm not going to be offended if you disagree with me, just as its not my intention to try and offend you. We're all just trying to get our points across. I'm glad your dept. makes the masking up on the truck work. I think its wrong and there are too many downsides to offset. Pack on the back-just about everytime! mask up? At the door or fire floor. Saves air, improved visibilty, better overall fireground awareness. I can see we're not gouing to change each others minds and thats fine too.
    Last edited by RFDACM; 05-08-2006 at 09:41 AM. Reason: spelling

  13. #63
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    When the truck stop's we are in the house in less then two min's. Most the time I go on air as I walk to the house, or as I pull the line.

    I guess you don't have much of a forcible entry issue then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clancyxdogg
    If you are that scared of smoke, maybe you should rethink your position on the fire dept.
    That is an "old school" mentality if I ever heard one. It is NOT ok to die at a fire, it is NOT ok to develop preventable injuries such as smoke inhalation during a fire, and it is NOT ok to have life long side effects including cancer by preventable means!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PFDTruck18


    glad he is a FF, would hate for him to be a teacher.

    Thats pretty dang funny I don't care who you are!!!!

  16. #66
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    masterFF...

    That is an "old school" mentality if I ever heard one. It is NOT ok to die at a fire, it is NOT ok to develop preventable injuries such as smoke inhalation during a fire, and it is NOT ok to have life long side effects including cancer by preventable means!
    Golly, care to show me where anyone here advocated dieing in a fire? Or where anyone advocated suffering long term effects of firefighting? Some have the opinion that it may be inevitable, but I don't see anyone here clamoring to die or suffer due to firefughting.

    Personally I am getting tired of those of you comparing guys who don't put their mask on until they enter the idlh environment to the smoke eaters. Of course there are some guys who prefer not to wear their masks, and that is their choice. Not mine, but I am not them either.

    This whole thing is silly running the gament from no mask in smoke to dismounting the engine breathing air from the bottle. Which is sillier?

    FyredUp

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM
    No, and that is one of my pet peeves. Why not tell me I'm wrong? Trust me you don't have to respect my opinion as most of us probably don't really respect opposing opinions until they are proven to us. This is part of the "p*ssification" of the fire service., we never just tell people they're wrong. I'm not going to be offended if you disagree with me, just as its not my intention to try and offend you. We're all just trying to get our points across. I'm glad your dept. makes the masking up on the truck work. I think its wrong and there are too many downsides to offset. Pack on the back-just about everytime! mask up? At the door or fire floor. Saves air, improved visibilty, better overall fireground awareness. I can see we're not gouing to change each others minds and thats fine too.
    I know the types of packs that Turd uses and they have fine visibility while wearing them and just because your mask is on comming off the rig, does not mean he is on air yet. If I am arriving on a scene where we know there is a working fire within a structure, I will have everything ready so that when I get to the door, all I have to do is trun the air on. Why not come off with it ready......Seconds do count. As far as size up, you can do your own looking through a mask and get what you need, but I also rely and trust in our chiefs and company officers to give a good enough size up that I won't have to take time walking around while sh#t is burning up. Do what you need to do. Maybe we shouldn't wear those damn things anyway because we can't see as well once we get inside a smoke filled room anyway. HA!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ehs7554
    I know the types of packs that Turd uses and they have fine visibility while wearing them and just because your mask is on comming off the rig, does not mean he is on air yet. If I am arriving on a scene where we know there is a working fire within a structure, I will have everything ready so that when I get to the door, all I have to do is trun the air on. Why not come off with it ready
    You know what's funny...I can put my mask on, with the regulator in place with the air on, in about three seconds...Even if there is good forward visibility, there is very POOR, downward, and peripheral vision in every mask. We have AV-3000's, peripheral vision is ok, upward is ok, forward is fine....but downward is still poor, better than the 2000's and the MSA MMR's. Now I say it because..if you get off a warm truck on a cold night, your going to have instant fog, same on a hot day, so then your supposed, fine visibility, goes to crap, how are you going to do your sizeup then?
    FF/NREMT-B

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    Quote Originally Posted by pfd4life
    You know what's funny...I can put my mask on, with the regulator in place with the air on, in about three seconds...Even if there is good forward visibility, there is very POOR, downward, and peripheral vision in every mask. We have AV-3000's, peripheral vision is ok, upward is ok, forward is fine....but downward is still poor, better than the 2000's and the MSA MMR's. Now I say it because..if you get off a warm truck on a cold night, your going to have instant fog, same on a hot day, so then your supposed, fine visibility, goes to crap, how are you going to do your sizeup then?
    I am not sure how many fires you see or how long you have been on the job or how big your dept is, 3 seconds....maybe,I'd have to see it. I know that the dept. that Turd works for sees quite a bit of action and I know his fire ground experience, and guess what?, to this day I don't think he he has had a problem yet with the way he does his thing. I have done the pre arrival mask on too, and some times it just works better. While you do your size up and finish getting ready, Turd and I will be in knocking down the fire. We'll see you during overhaul..........

  20. #70
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    While you do your size up and finish getting ready, Turd and I will be in knocking down the fire. We'll see you during overhaul..........
    Good idea, who needs that silly little size-up B.S., what a wast of time, heck, lets just eliminate the whole I.C. concept...

    ps my dept is 400 firefighters, 16 stations 27 companies, 41,000 calls-not big but decent size-incase you are wondering.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    Does everyone but me do a 360 walkaround and sizeup?? Does everyone do a little pre-attack huddle in the front yard?? I am a fireman and I follow my Captain. I know my assignment and can get enough info on my way into the building. if I see something wrong I will say something. If it doesn't look safe I will say something, But then that is why why have a chief and a safety officer on the scene to continually assess the situation and give status reports or order the evac tones. What is so wrong with putting the mask n before you step off the rig? That is the issue here. I don't have a problem with the IC system, but I am at the bottom of the chain on it. Maybe I don't understand your tactics or lack of, but here in my city we fight fire and get the job done. Meanwhile I feel many of you are so individually rapped up in safety concerns and size ups that you never save a house or mitigate a situation effectively. this is why we have experienced chiefs on the scene. Sure a mini size up on your way in is okay, but arguing that the mask obscures my periphial vision.....Last I knew, when doing a size up, you should be looking at the situation staright forward, not off to the side.........Again.....see you during overhaul....have fun in the front yard.....should make a good picture for the paper......"Firefighter's Huddle for Safety While House Burns"

  22. #72
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    OK, you got me, you're incredible. Hard to believe we can even get a fire out let alone hang with you guys. Does Kentland know about you? Heck maybe they will even try to recruit you.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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  23. #73
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    ehs7554

    I know the types of packs that Turd uses and they have fine visibility while wearing them and just because your mask is on comming off the rig, does not mean he is on air yet. If I am arriving on a scene where we know there is a working fire within a structure, I will have everything ready so that when I get to the door, all I have to do is trun the air on. Why not come off with it ready......Seconds do count. As far as size up, you can do your own looking through a mask and get what you need, but I also rely and trust in our chiefs and company officers to give a good enough size up that I won't have to take time walking around while sh#t is burning up. Do what you need to do. Maybe we shouldn't wear those damn things anyway because we can't see as well once we get inside a smoke filled room anyway. HA!
    Look, wear you mask getting off the rig if you want to. Heck wear it all day around the station fully bunkered if it makes you happy. The fact is firefighters in the busier FD's DON'T get off the rig wearing their face piece. WHY? Why don't you ask one of them instead of pretending that you have all of the answers? I would assume that you are in a smaller FD because on my career job 9 times out of 10 we are on scene operating before the duty chief arrives. I suppose we could wait for him to do size-up for us and waste precious minutes. But we prefer to take our own look, and then go get the job done.

    I am not sure how many fires you see or how long you have been on the job or how big your dept is, 3 seconds....maybe,I'd have to see it. I know that the dept. that Turd works for sees quite a bit of action and I know his fire ground experience, and guess what?, to this day I don't think he he has had a problem yet with the way he does his thing. I have done the pre arrival mask on too, and some times it just works better. While you do your size up and finish getting ready, Turd and I will be in knocking down the fire. We'll see you during overhaul..........
    Nice, real nice. So exactly what did you prove by this whole exchange? To be honest that was the same bravado BS that I used to say here that got me booted for 10 days. I suppose when you run out of rational supporting things for your viewpoint you had to turn to questioning the integrity of everyone who disagrees with you.

    And unless you live in the sun belt or never fight fire in the winter I don't care what kind of mask you use, if you mask up too soon all you will see is condensation on the inside of the mask. And if you want to question my experience please do so. I have just shy of 30 years in this business.

    Does everyone but me do a 360 walkaround and sizeup?? Does everyone do a little pre-attack huddle in the front yard?? I am a fireman and I follow my Captain. I know my assignment and can get enough info on my way into the building. if I see something wrong I will say something. If it doesn't look safe I will say something, But then that is why why have a chief and a safety officer on the scene to continually assess the situation and give status reports or order the evac tones. What is so wrong with putting the mask n before you step off the rig? That is the issue here. I don't have a problem with the IC system, but I am at the bottom of the chain on it. Maybe I don't understand your tactics or lack of, but here in my city we fight fire and get the job done. Meanwhile I feel many of you are so individually rapped up in safety concerns and size ups that you never save a house or mitigate a situation effectively. this is why we have experienced chiefs on the scene. Sure a mini size up on your way in is okay, but arguing that the mask obscures my periphial vision.....Last I knew, when doing a size up, you should be looking at the situation staright forward, not off to the side.........Again.....see you during overhaul....have fun in the front yard.....should make a good picture for the paper......"Firefighter's Huddle for Safety While House Burns"
    Again, mask up in the rig then follow me for a couple hundred yards into a building where you won't need your face piece until we get close and tell me who is more efficient. Climb 12 flights of stairs with your facepiece on and tell me who is more efficient. Sorry, do whatever you want about wearing your facepiece, but you will never convince the rest of us that getting off the rig masked up is a good diea.

    I can't help but wonder why, if your argument for this is so strong, that you felt the need to attack the Brothers who disagree with you? I fail to see how questioning their aggressiveness or skill makes your point anymore valid. I would ask you, care to say the things you said here to an FDNY or Chicago or Boston or even one of the guys on my career FD face to face? I would love to be there and see guys laughing so hard they would about **** themselves.

    Again, do whatever you want...heck charge the preconnect and keep it in the cab with you if you want...Just understand just because you do something and have done it for years doesn't make it right.

    FyredUp

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    Fyred Up, thanks for saving me the keyboard time. I'm sure I couldn't have said it any better and certainly not as eloquent! I couldn't agree more!

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    WOW....Cant we all get along. Men and women do what you want just make sure in the end you get the job done. I dont care if your FDNY or some small hick Co that goes to 2 working calls a year. "GET IN THERE AND GET ER DONE"
    MASK ON -VS- MASK OFF. Does it really matter..

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