SCBA At Every Fire?

[TurdFergeson]

Hmmm... I guess LAFD, Pheonix FD, Chicago, FDNY, Boston, Detriot, Philly, DC and thankfully the largest percentage of FDs here in the US must be wrong? Some of us actaully like to know where windows and doors might be before we go in? Or if there's a victim lying in the bushes, the arsonist running down the alley, the number of mailboxes on the porch or meters on the #4 wall? You know, little things that get missed when your vision is even partailly obscured and/or your in an all out race to grab the knob and get in the building as fast as you can. Or does everyone in a mask take a walk around and do their size-up first? Hell, that was one of the reasons Pheonix gave as why they're removing SCBA's fromt he cab and jump seats. They want their personnel to slow down and read the building better!

Can you tell me where I said those that didn't mask up in the rig were doing it wrong? What I remember is saying what I did, and that if others didn't want to do as I did, then that was fine. Again, I see just fine out of my mask, so it's not an issue for ME . You are right that things can be missed, but that can happen even if you're not masked up and in a hurry to get the knob. As for me, I wait for my officer's instructions.

[RFDACM]

Can you tell me where I said those that didn't mask up in the rig were doing it wrong?

No, and that is one of my pet peeves. Why not tell me I'm wrong? Trust me you don't have to respect my opinion as most of us probably don't really respect opposing opinions until they are proven to us. This is part of the "p*ssification" of the fire service., we never just tell people they're wrong. I'm not going to be offended if you disagree with me, just as its not my intention to try and offend you. We're all just trying to get our points across. I'm glad your dept. makes the masking up on the truck work. I think its wrong and there are too many downsides to offset. Pack on the back-just about everytime! mask up? At the door or fire floor. Saves air, improved visibilty, better overall fireground awareness. I can see we're not gouing to change each others minds and thats fine too.

[Jasper 45]

When the truck stop's we are in the house in less then two min's. Most the time I go on air as I walk to the house, or as I pull the line.

I guess you don't have much of a forcible entry issue then.

[masterFF]

If you are that scared of smoke, maybe you should rethink your position on the fire dept.

That is an "old school" mentality if I ever heard one. It is NOT ok to die at a fire, it is NOT ok to develop preventable injuries such as smoke inhalation during a fire, and it is NOT ok to have life long side effects including cancer by preventable means!

[GFDLT1]

glad he is a FF, would hate for him to be a teacher.

Thats pretty dang funny I don't care who you are!!!!

[FyredUp]

masterFF...

That is an "old school" mentality if I ever heard one. It is NOT ok to die at a fire, it is NOT ok to develop preventable injuries such as smoke inhalation during a fire, and it is NOT ok to have life long side effects including cancer by preventable means!

Golly, care to show me where anyone here advocated dieing in a fire? Or where anyone advocated suffering long term effects of firefighting? Some have the opinion that it may be inevitable, but I don't see anyone here clamoring to die or suffer due to firefughting.

Personally I am getting tired of those of you comparing guys who don't put their mask on until they enter the idlh environment to the smoke eaters. Of course there are some guys who prefer not to wear their masks, and that is their choice. Not mine, but I am not them either.

This whole thing is silly running the gament from no mask in smoke to dismounting the engine breathing air from the bottle. Which is sillier?

FyredUp

[ehs7554]

No, and that is one of my pet peeves. Why not tell me I'm wrong? Trust me you don't have to respect my opinion as most of us probably don't really respect opposing opinions until they are proven to us. This is part of the "p*ssification" of the fire service., we never just tell people they're wrong. I'm not going to be offended if you disagree with me, just as its not my intention to try and offend you. We're all just trying to get our points across. I'm glad your dept. makes the masking up on the truck work. I think its wrong and there are too many downsides to offset. Pack on the back-just about everytime! mask up? At the door or fire floor. Saves air, improved visibilty, better overall fireground awareness. I can see we're not gouing to change each others minds and thats fine too.

I know the types of packs that Turd uses and they have fine visibility while wearing them and just because your mask is on comming off the rig, does not mean he is on air yet. If I am arriving on a scene where we know there is a working fire within a structure, I will have everything ready so that when I get to the door, all I have to do is trun the air on. Why not come off with it ready......Seconds do count. As far as size up, you can do your own looking through a mask and get what you need, but I also rely and trust in our chiefs and company officers to give a good enough size up that I won't have to take time walking around while sh#t is burning up. Do what you need to do. Maybe we shouldn't wear those damn things anyway because we can't see as well once we get inside a smoke filled room anyway. HA!

[pfd4life]

I know the types of packs that Turd uses and they have fine visibility while wearing them and just because your mask is on comming off the rig, does not mean he is on air yet. If I am arriving on a scene where we know there is a working fire within a structure, I will have everything ready so that when I get to the door, all I have to do is trun the air on. Why not come off with it ready

You know what's funny...I can put my mask on, with the regulator in place with the air on, in about three seconds...Even if there is good forward visibility, there is very POOR, downward, and peripheral vision in every mask. We have AV-3000's, peripheral vision is ok, upward is ok, forward is fine....but downward is still poor, better than the 2000's and the MSA MMR's. Now I say it because..if you get off a warm truck on a cold night, your going to have instant fog, same on a hot day, so then your supposed, fine visibility, goes to crap, how are you going to do your sizeup then?

[ehs7554]

You know what's funny...I can put my mask on, with the regulator in place with the air on, in about three seconds...Even if there is good forward visibility, there is very POOR, downward, and peripheral vision in every mask. We have AV-3000's, peripheral vision is ok, upward is ok, forward is fine....but downward is still poor, better than the 2000's and the MSA MMR's. Now I say it because..if you get off a warm truck on a cold night, your going to have instant fog, same on a hot day, so then your supposed, fine visibility, goes to crap, how are you going to do your sizeup then?

I am not sure how many fires you see or how long you have been on the job or how big your dept is, 3 seconds....maybe,I'd have to see it. I know that the dept. that Turd works for sees quite a bit of action and I know his fire ground experience, and guess what?, to this day I don't think he he has had a problem yet with the way he does his thing. I have done the pre arrival mask on too, and some times it just works better. While you do your size up and finish getting ready, Turd and I will be in knocking down the fire. We'll see you during overhaul..........

[SPFDRum]

While you do your size up and finish getting ready, Turd and I will be in knocking down the fire. We'll see you during overhaul..........

Good idea, who needs that silly little size-up B.S., what a wast of time, heck, lets just eliminate the whole I.C. concept...

ps my dept is 400 firefighters, 16 stations 27 companies, 41,000 calls-not big but decent size-incase you are wondering.

[ehs7554]

Does everyone but me do a 360 walkaround and sizeup?? Does everyone do a little pre-attack huddle in the front yard?? I am a fireman and I follow my Captain. I know my assignment and can get enough info on my way into the building. if I see something wrong I will say something. If it doesn't look safe I will say something, But then that is why why have a chief and a safety officer on the scene to continually assess the situation and give status reports or order the evac tones. What is so wrong with putting the mask n before you step off the rig? That is the issue here. I don't have a problem with the IC system, but I am at the bottom of the chain on it. Maybe I don't understand your tactics or lack of, but here in my city we fight fire and get the job done. Meanwhile I feel many of you are so individually rapped up in safety concerns and size ups that you never save a house or mitigate a situation effectively. this is why we have experienced chiefs on the scene. Sure a mini size up on your way in is okay, but arguing that the mask obscures my periphial vision.....Last I knew, when doing a size up, you should be looking at the situation staright forward, not off to the side.........Again.....see you during overhaul....have fun in the front yard.....should make a good picture for the paper......"Firefighter's Huddle for Safety While House Burns"

[SPFDRum]

OK, you got me, you're incredible. Hard to believe we can even get a fire out let alone hang with you guys. Does Kentland know about you? Heck maybe they will even try to recruit you.

[FyredUp]

ehs7554

I know the types of packs that Turd uses and they have fine visibility while wearing them and just because your mask is on comming off the rig, does not mean he is on air yet. If I am arriving on a scene where we know there is a working fire within a structure, I will have everything ready so that when I get to the door, all I have to do is trun the air on. Why not come off with it ready......Seconds do count. As far as size up, you can do your own looking through a mask and get what you need, but I also rely and trust in our chiefs and company officers to give a good enough size up that I won't have to take time walking around while sh#t is burning up. Do what you need to do. Maybe we shouldn't wear those damn things anyway because we can't see as well once we get inside a smoke filled room anyway. HA!

Look, wear you mask getting off the rig if you want to. Heck wear it all day around the station fully bunkered if it makes you happy. The fact is firefighters in the busier FD's DON'T get off the rig wearing their face piece. WHY? Why don't you ask one of them instead of pretending that you have all of the answers? I would assume that you are in a smaller FD because on my career job 9 times out of 10 we are on scene operating before the duty chief arrives. I suppose we could wait for him to do size-up for us and waste precious minutes. But we prefer to take our own look, and then go get the job done.

I am not sure how many fires you see or how long you have been on the job or how big your dept is, 3 seconds....maybe,I'd have to see it. I know that the dept. that Turd works for sees quite a bit of action and I know his fire ground experience, and guess what?, to this day I don't think he he has had a problem yet with the way he does his thing. I have done the pre arrival mask on too, and some times it just works better. While you do your size up and finish getting ready, Turd and I will be in knocking down the fire. We'll see you during overhaul..........

Nice, real nice. So exactly what did you prove by this whole exchange? To be honest that was the same bravado BS that I used to say here that got me booted for 10 days. I suppose when you run out of rational supporting things for your viewpoint you had to turn to questioning the integrity of everyone who disagrees with you.

And unless you live in the sun belt or never fight fire in the winter I don't care what kind of mask you use, if you mask up too soon all you will see is condensation on the inside of the mask. And if you want to question my experience please do so. I have just shy of 30 years in this business.

Does everyone but me do a 360 walkaround and sizeup?? Does everyone do a little pre-attack huddle in the front yard?? I am a fireman and I follow my Captain. I know my assignment and can get enough info on my way into the building. if I see something wrong I will say something. If it doesn't look safe I will say something, But then that is why why have a chief and a safety officer on the scene to continually assess the situation and give status reports or order the evac tones. What is so wrong with putting the mask n before you step off the rig? That is the issue here. I don't have a problem with the IC system, but I am at the bottom of the chain on it. Maybe I don't understand your tactics or lack of, but here in my city we fight fire and get the job done. Meanwhile I feel many of you are so individually rapped up in safety concerns and size ups that you never save a house or mitigate a situation effectively. this is why we have experienced chiefs on the scene. Sure a mini size up on your way in is okay, but arguing that the mask obscures my periphial vision.....Last I knew, when doing a size up, you should be looking at the situation staright forward, not off to the side.........Again.....see you during overhaul....have fun in the front yard.....should make a good picture for the paper......"Firefighter's Huddle for Safety While House Burns"

Again, mask up in the rig then follow me for a couple hundred yards into a building where you won't need your face piece until we get close and tell me who is more efficient. Climb 12 flights of stairs with your facepiece on and tell me who is more efficient. Sorry, do whatever you want about wearing your facepiece, but you will never convince the rest of us that getting off the rig masked up is a good diea.

I can't help but wonder why, if your argument for this is so strong, that you felt the need to attack the Brothers who disagree with you? I fail to see how questioning their aggressiveness or skill makes your point anymore valid. I would ask you, care to say the things you said here to an FDNY or Chicago or Boston or even one of the guys on my career FD face to face? I would love to be there and see guys laughing so hard they would about **** themselves.

Again, do whatever you want...heck charge the preconnect and keep it in the cab with you if you want...Just understand just because you do something and have done it for years doesn't make it right.

FyredUp

[RFDACM]

Fyred Up, thanks for saving me the keyboard time. I'm sure I couldn't have said it any better and certainly not as eloquent! I couldn't agree more!

[WBenner]

WOW....Cant we all get along. Men and women do what you want just make sure in the end you get the job done. I dont care if your FDNY or some small hick Co that goes to 2 working calls a year. "GET IN THERE AND GET ER DONE"
MASK ON -VS- MASK OFF. Does it really matter..

[masterFF]

masterFF...
Golly, care to show me where anyone here advocated dieing in a fire? Or where anyone advocated suffering long term effects of firefighting? Some have the opinion that it may be inevitable, but I don't see anyone here clamoring to die or suffer due to firefughting.

If you are that scared of smoke, maybe you should rethink your position on the fire dept.--i take that as a "smoke eater" mentality.

Personally I am getting tired of those of you comparing guys who don't put their mask on until they enter the idlh environment to the smoke eaters.

I am not advocating wearing your mask in non idlh environments. I AM advocating putting the equipment on your back. It is part of our job. Go "on air" when needed.

Of course there are some guys who prefer not to wear their masks, and that is their choice. Not mine, but I am not them either.

When those guys go on disability pensions who are they affecting? me-because they are robbing my pension due to years of them not utilizing safety equipment that was available for use!

[FFFRED]

When those guys go on disability pensions who are they affecting? me-because they are robbing my pension due to years of them not utilizing safety equipment that was available for use!

Tell us about your States or City Pension system. Does it change based on how many guys live or die? How many retire on service conected disability or regular? I don't follow the argument...Many of the firemen I know have had their lives cut short therefore the pension plan is still sound because the day they died the checks stopped comming.

Is your plan defined benefit like everyone elses? I haven't heard of pension plans going bankrupt because of firemen not wearing their masks.

FTM-PTB

[Firescueguy]

RFDACM...a question regarding that dept. you mentioned that wears masks on the way to the scene...do they pull a lot of multiple alarms for their fires??? Reason I ask is that I would guess they pass the fire often times (seeing through a fogged up mask is kinda hard while trying to drive a BRT... ) causing the fire to spread while they backtrack to the scene...

I too would indeed be ROFLMAO if I heard the officer yelling thru his mask asking for an assignment over the radio while he's still in the truck responding to the scene...must be a bit#$ tryin' to read the MDT...

[ehs7554]

ehs7554


FyredUp

Okay.....
1) I never said I was right.
2) I don't always do this myself, just re stating that there are many times where it is not a bad idea.
3)100 yds.....We pull to the front my friend...maybe 40ft most of the time to entry on a signle family dwelling.
4) I guess I do work for a small fire dept. we only run 16 pumpers, 3 trucks, and 3 quints, along with every other specialized piece of equipment.
5)Sure we beat the chief many times, but my captain or another first arriving company can give a size up...and the do. It's not my primary job.
6) Bring it.....RAIN,SNOW,HAIL,TORNADOS ,HOT,COLD and a ton of humidity.
7) 9 times out of 10 you give me a typical house fire, that we are 100% sure we will be making an attack.....I will have my mask on and ready to go while most are kneeling on the front porch getting theirs on with their gloves to go on next. Remeber...I am not on air yet......And BTW Turd's dept uses 45 min bottles so, even if he goes on air comming off the rig, he will stilll be in there longer than most on 30 min bottles.
8) Again, it really isn't right or wrong, and we cannot compare our tactics to FDNY and Chicago or one of those super big depts. And if I am going up in a high rise or mid, I will wait. Everything is situational.

You guys are frickin funny. Oh yeah for a little ghetto town, we do just fine.

[FyredUp]

Okay.....
1) I never said I was right. Perhaps not, but the inference was if it wasn't your way people were not as good as you.
2) I don't always do this myself, just re stating that there are many times where it is not a bad idea. Golly, that's not what you said before.
3)100 yds.....We pull to the front my friend...maybe 40ft most of the time to entry on a signle family dwelling. I suppose if ALL you ever go to is single family dwelling fires your idea could work. Where I work we have factories that take up mulitple blocks, a medical complex that takes up multiple blocks, a mall that is substantial in size. It makes no sense at all to walk a couple hundred yards into a complex with your face piece on in a non-idlh environment.
4) I guess I do work for a small fire dept. we only run 16 pumpers, 3 trucks, and 3 quints, along with every other specialized piece of equipment. Smaller than some, larger than others.
5)Sure we beat the chief many times, but my captain or another first arriving company can give a size up...and the do. It's not my primary job. I will tell you as strongly as I can that it is EVERYONE's job to do a sizeup before they enter. I want to see where windows are, doors, additional hazards like canopies or roof top hvac units or anything that may bite me later if I didn;t see it.
6) Bring it.....RAIN,SNOW,HAIL,TORNADOS ,HOT,COLD and a ton of humidity. Umm, how can I say this and not sound flip. WHOOP DE DO. You and 3/4 of the country.
7) 9 times out of 10 you give me a typical house fire, that we are 100% sure we will be making an attack.....I will have my mask on and ready to go while most are kneeling on the front porch getting theirs on with their gloves to go on next. Who brought the line for you? Remeber...I am not on air yet......And BTW Turd's dept uses 45 min bottles so, even if he goes on air comming off the rig, he will stilll be in there longer than most on 30 min bottles. So the longer duration bottle is an excuse for poor air management? Come on, now you are just making stuff up as you go along. If he wastes air outside his interior time is no better than mine interior with a 30 minute botlle.
8) Again, it really isn't right or wrong, and we cannot compare our tactics to FDNY and Chicago or one of those super big depts. And if I am going up in a high rise or mid, I will wait. Everything is situational. Now you are changing your story. You originally said you always get off the rig masked up. Even you admit now that in some circumstances that is wrong. But ehy? If visibility is good and it doesn't effect efficiency why not EVERY time for every call?
You guys are frickin funny. Oh yeah for a little ghetto town, we do just fine.

I am sure you do as good as you can.

FyredUp