1. #1
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    Default Extremely Aggressive in Houston

    Hey, what do ya'll think about the very aggressive tactics of the Houston Fire Department? Unlike most other fire departments, they will perform an offensive attack on a heavily involved "shotgun shack" as they are referred to by the city guys. The link shows multiple Houston Fire Department fires in the 5th ward of the city (station 19), where the firefighters enter heavily involved structures. I'd like your input on the video and HFD's tactics.

    http://www.thebravestonline.com/station19review.html

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    Only saw them make entry into one of those structures, and that was simply heavily charged with smoke and no visable fire. No problem with that.

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    You mean aggressive tactics like:

    The last clip at the end of the video you can see the crew of Station 12 pulling a victim from a working fire!

    The next most aggressive thing on this borderline whacker video was the soundtrack.

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    Either this is the same guy that spammed sanantonioFIRE.org forums a while back with..."tell me how much you envy/worship the super aggressive HFD tactics blah blah blah"....or Houston has a growing whacker problem. Don't get me wrong, HFD rocks...but I have friends there...and they dont talk like that.

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    I can't even navigate the bloody site. Nice work, boys.

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    Why don't you ask Capt. Grady Burke's wife and kids how they feel about the "aggressiveness". I am in no way attempting to start a war, but entering a known vacant crackhouse? For what? Why? So a buff can post on the internet "look how aggressive they are?". (I KNOW that's not the case).

    Be safe.

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    I'm fairly sure Houston is a lot like our city, and most cities, you NEED to be aggressive.
    With inner-city density, it's at times alot easier to extinguish the problem than try to save the rest of the block. We aren't some little suburb with 30 foot spacing- try more along the lines of <18 inches.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    Why don't you ask Capt. Grady Burke's wife and kids how they feel about the "aggressiveness".
    Nice you wacker. How do you know what his family thinks or what sort of man he was.

    I am in no way attempting to start a war,
    Yea, just like many trips to the ER start with; "hey, watch this."
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
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    I have said this on this forum multiple times previously:

    Some FDs have less need to be aggressive due to the layout of their community and its exposure problems. Though I will not comment on Houston as I have never visited, I know in my city that we must make an aggressive interior attack so as to not only protect the main fire dwelling but also the other 20 that may be attached to both sides. Sure that dwelling may be a vacant shooting gallery but it might also have squatters living inside besides the possible occupied dwellings attached to either side.

    Please leave your concepts of aggressiveness to your fire dept. and dont automatically assume that just because you wont make a push that when another department does, they are wrong.
    Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

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    I'm fairly sure Houston is a lot like our city, and most cities, you NEED to be aggressive.
    With inner-city density, it's at times alot easier to extinguish the problem than try to save the rest of the block.
    I'll give them that. Besides, looks can be decieving. I have put out some pretty intimidating fire blowing 15' flames out the windows of a 50% involved structure with less than 30 gallons of water. It all depends on response time, and if the flash is recent (i.e. still contents only, not structure).

    If you can get it before it gets seated and compromises the plaster/wallboard, you can do a lot with a little.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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    but entering a known vacant
    Someone had to have been in there for the fire to start.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by irishff513
    Why don't you ask Capt. Grady Burke's wife and kids how they feel about the "aggressiveness". I am in no way attempting to start a war, but entering a known vacant crackhouse? For what? Why? So a buff can post on the internet "look how aggressive they are?". (I KNOW that's not the case).

    Be safe.
    If its vacant, it cant be a crackhouse. One or the other. And to be honest, there is no such this as a "known vacant." The fire must have started somehow. If gas/electric are still supplied to the house, then it isnt vacant, its unnocupied. If there was no gas/electric, then how do the fires start in supposed "vacant" structures? The reason you make the push and do a search is because more than likely, there are people in there. You dont get to decide whether or not to save someone because they are more than likely a crackhead.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    HFD is bad ***, every dept operates differently, dont like it dont work there

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    First of all, SAFD46Truck, I have never spammed any forum. In fact, this is the first time I have even mentioned HFD on a forum. Second, I don't understand the "whacker" comments. I am simply asking firemen around the country what they think, after all, every fire department around the world uses different tactics and levels of aggression. Speaking of "whackers," didn't you post pictures of your new helmet? This is a legitamate post and if talking about fire department tactics makes me a "whacker," then i guess every fireman in the world is a "whacker." I don't recommend calling your chief a "whacker" next time he is discussing how to attack a fire. Next, I never, anywhere in my post, stated that I disagree with HFD's tactics. In fact, I think they are great. I have seen firsthand and through videos HFD using their aggressive tactics. I have discussed this with many Houston firemen, including my uncle, a Senior Captain with HFD, so I have a frame of reference. If you can safely attack a heavily involved structure offensively, then go for it. Many fire departments, including mine, are sometimes too quick to pull out of a structure. They do a great job in Houston and are arguably one of the best fire departments in the world.

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    Wow SAFD46Truck. I think you hit that dudes nerves. I just saw his goat running past me, someone quick catch him!

  16. #16
    firefighter7160
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    Angry Its all about your dept.

    Every FD has there own way of fighting fire. I see nothing wronge with the video. I think it was a good fight. Some FD's fight it from the outside and some go in. The one's that dont go in see the other's and say thats crazy.
    The guy's that go in see the ones that stay out and say there weak. It's all about your dept. and the way you do it.

    I really feel bad that folk's would use this forum to beat up on someone's loss. And what there family would say about a form of firefighting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irishff513
    Why don't you ask Capt. Grady Burke's wife and kids how they feel about the "aggressiveness". I am in no way attempting to start a war, but entering a known vacant crackhouse? For what? Why? So a buff can post on the internet "look how aggressive they are?". (I KNOW that's not the case).

    Be safe.
    1st off let me say for those that don't know me on here I am a Houston firefighter and Captain Grady Burke was my Captain and my friend.

    Irishff513 I don't know who you are and normally I don't get angry at others posts, but just from your comments shows me 3 things. You donít know anything about the fire except what you heard on TV. 2) You don't know the burke family at all and 3) you sure the hell didn't know Grady.
    So why don't YOU go ask the burke family what they think and feel. And after they get done with you come see me. Don't ever disrespect a fallen brother or there families by posting something you know nothing about. Its guys like you that make me hate the way the fire service is going. You judge with out facts, you comment with out knowledge and you act like you know what you are talking about, but yet I bet you have little or no real experience.

    Think next time before you comment. And if you have something to say next time about Grady or his family I suggest you talk to me first, you can email me anytime.

    Jon Drew
    46 B Shift
    Houston Fire Department
    Last edited by hfd838; 05-04-2006 at 09:49 PM.
    "DON'T GO IN THERE!!! DON'T YOU KNOW THERE IS A FIRE IN THERE!!!!"

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    Thanks for your post Jon, I was hoping to hear from you on this. Stay safe, Brother.

    As far as irishff513, I hope he took his happy wacker arse and crawled back under the bridge the troll came from.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    I especially liked the clip of the heavily involved 1 story w/ the porch that set back from the road a little. It was an excellent example of disciplined hose teams. The first crew which you can't see, attacks the fire from ths rear and the 2nd team (in front of the house) extinguishes the front porch area and doesn't enter or spray into the doors/windows therefore steaming the crew inside. Good job guys.

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    Thats not aggressiveness......thats doing your job! Its what your supposed to do.
    Last edited by MemphisE34a; 05-05-2006 at 04:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a
    Thats not aggresiveness......thats doing your job! Its what your supposed to do.
    I agree completely! However, I'm afraid several folks that post here would disagree, saying that "doing your job" means never entering a burning building...That's what deck guns are for. It's just not safe in there, you know.

    Keep up the good work HFD!




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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a
    Thats not aggresiveness......thats doing your job! Its what your supposed to do.
    Agreed, a bunch of us watched this a few nights ago and wondered where the "too agressive" came from. And I'm sure they are very agessive and more power to them, but I didn't see anything over the top in that video. Just consistant offensive firefighting.

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    Yes, very consistent. But again, I never said "too aggressive." Due to the age and integrity of the structures being entered and the amount of fire present at many of these fires, I consistently hear firefighters, especially around the Houston area, commenting that it is not worth it. They cite the "risk a lot to save a lot..." theory. This video was just an example of offensive attacks on old structures with fairly heavy fire conditions. There are other examples on this and other sites. As I said before, HFD's level of aggresssion is just fine, considering their great training and knowledge. They know what they're doing.

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    As far as the "vacant" structure, how do you know if it's vacant or not if you don't go in? If you're able to get in and do a search, then go in and do a search. Isn't that why we are here??
    Bill Geyer
    Engine 27
    Memphis F.D.

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