Class A Pumper Equipment Requirements

[cctrtlt2]

We are in the process of a new truck project, a rescue pumper. The truck will have a 1000gpm and 500 tank. What I am looking for is what other equipment this truck will have to have a Class A pumper rating.

I am looking specifically how much, if any, of the following I will need.

1. LDH hose
2. ladders
3. extingushers
4. handlines
5. other equipment

thanks

[Res343cue]

We are in the process of a new truck project, a rescue pumper. The truck will have a 1000gpm and 500 tank. What I am looking for is what other equipment this truck will have to have a Class A pumper rating.

I am looking specifically how much, if any, of the following I will need.

1. LDH hose
2. ladders
3. extingushers
4. handlines
5. other equipment

thanks

Spec the truck for your needs. Don't spec it to what "someone else" says a Class A pumper is (IE: NFPA). If this is more of a "rescue" then a "pumper" one 200' 1.75" line, and 1 200' 2.5" line, and enough LDH to stretch between your farthest seperated two hydrants should be enough. Perhaps have a reel above the pump off each side. Officers side has another 500' of 2.5", and the Chauffer's side has another 500' of 1.75". Seen many setups like this, where preconnected lines just aren't used often. Carry a couple of poney sections in a compartment, and you're set.

On a rescue-pumper, I see no reason not to have atleast a 3 section 35', a 28 or 24', a longer and shorter roof ladder, an A-Frame ladder like the "Little Giant" (I think that was it's name..).

Extinguishers? Put on two of everything, and you're pretty well set. 2 Water Cans, 2 Dry Chems, 2 Co2, and any others you might want to include.

On top of the normal engine equipment, since this is a rescue engine, I'd want to include a "good" amount of cribbing. You can see some good discussion here (Link keeps you on the FH.Com forums, Extrication section).

For hand tools, I'd make sure I included a full compliment of truck tools, because to us that's what a rescue does. They operate as a truck team, a RIT company, etc. One way I've seen this accomplished on some rigs, is to have one side for engine ops, setup the rear for your extrication gear, and then setup the other side for truck ops. You don't have to duplicate all of the equipment on your other apparatus, but it might be nice to have an extra K12, and a chainsaw or two to compliment what you might (or might not) have.

Just my .02 from the morning, before any coffee.

[ChiefDog]

First thing is buy a NFPA 1901 Standard for Motorized Fire Apparatus, second find out from ISO what they require on an engine.

I am sure people will have other opinions but you have too look at the "big picture" and get the stuff they require.

Then add all the stuff you think you need to make the truck function for your department.

[firemanmikey]

Correct me if I'm wrong, In the NFPA standard if it says yo are required to carry 400' of 13/4 hose for eg. This dosen't mean it all has to be coupled together but at least on hand on the truck. But it would make more sense to have 2-200' lines. But there is an NFPA on how much hose the truck should carry.

Hope that made sense.

[N2DFire]

FYI - NFPA is now allowing a free "preview" of all standards.
Below is the link to the 1901 page
http://www.nfpa.org/aboutthecodes/Ab...sp?DocNum=1901
Once on that page - scroll down till you see the link that says "preview this document". Click that link and follow their instructions.
Please note that you CAN NOT print or cut/paste from this document viewer.

[RFDACM]

If you need to maintain your ISO rating or this apparatus will be a large percentage of your overall fleet, you may want to consider the ISO equipment list. Unlike the NFPA list, the ISO list means something as they use it to determine a point value for the engine company. The ISO list is generally a little longer than NFPA and depending on who your rater is somethi9ngs can be substituted for others to gain or retain points. Some places evidentally got credit for a larger water tank or better supply credit becuase the rater saw value in the CAFS. Others allow a secong K12 in place of a cutting torch, etc.

[Bones42]

Love the ISO "equivalency items list". To them, a TIC is equivalent for a Cutting Torch. How long do you beat on the metal with the TIC before it cuts through?

[Dave1983]

Love the ISO "equivalency items list". To them, a TIC is equivalent for a Cutting Torch. How long do you beat on the metal with the TIC before it cuts through?

LOL...Not much on the ISO list makes sense.

[CaptOldTimer]

Did the ISO ever delete the requirement for Pumpers to carry cellar pipes and burst hose jackets??

These two items were the two dumbest items listed to be carried on a Pumper! If anyone ever tried to use a hose jacket and it worked successfully, then you are a rocket scientist, and don’t belong operating fire apparatus!!

We told the ISO that we will carry what the NFPA 1901 indicates for apparatus, accept it!

[RFDACM]

We told the ISO that we will carry what the NFPA 1901 indicates for apparatus, accept it!

I'm sure that helped your rating! We took the hit on hose jackets but have a cellar nozzle and bought a peircing nozzle which can be an equivalent of the cellar nozzle. NFPA 1901 is short of equipment compared to ISO. If you don't need the rating points than so be it, but if you do, your selling yourself short by ignoring them. They don't care either way if your citizens pay more or less for insurance. NFPA 1901 has no monetary or operational bearing. If you meet it fine, if you don't who will ever know? ISO on the other hand will take away points for under equipped apparatus and if you lose a rating point and switch brackets, your property owners are not going to be happy, when they find out the reason they're paying more. Can these things make a significant difference? Sure, some places reportedly have changed whole fleets with insurance savings passed on to their citizens.

[neiowa]

Did the ISO ever delete the requirement for Pumpers to carry cellar pipes and burst hose jackets??

These two items were the two dumbest items listed to be carried on a Pumper! If anyone ever tried to use a hose jacket and it worked successfully, then you are a rocket scientist, and don’t belong operating fire apparatus!!

We told the ISO that we will carry what the NFPA 1901 indicates for apparatus, accept it!

And I'm sure ISO did as instructed. And the taxpayers of your district are paying the price. Not anyone from ISO, certainly no one from NPFA, they don't really care how you run your dept. They establish standards of performance, if you can't be bothered to meet them it's no skin off their rear.

For the lazy - ISO Equivalency List
http://www.isomitigation.com/ppc/3000/ppc3007.html

And yes, burst hose jacket is "still" on the list. Your objection would be what? "Never needed on in my ___ years so ......."? So substitute - 2-1/2", 3", or LDH hose clamp

Cellar nozzle is a substitute item for Distributing nozzle (1-1/2" min.) IF you chose to do so.

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

It's not like it's a big hit to miss the hose jacket. Out of the pumper score it's .61%, and out of the entire ISO score for the department it's .06%. There are bigger fish to fry when it comes to worrying about ISO score, such as water supply or staffing (aka divergence). Simple things like not having sign-in sheets or training records will hurt a lot worse than not having a hose jacket. 3 year testing records of pumps, hose, ladders, etc, etc are all the big ISO rocks. If you don't have hose jackets and are missing other things then don't waste your money now. When you're going for the big push then you don't want to leave any simple points off.

And to back Roger up, I've used hose jackets 4 times in 13 years. LDH hose clamps a lot more than that. It depends on your operations. In short-staffed situations some drop the LDH clamp on the supply line after laying in so the hydrantman can open the hydrant and not have to wait for the D/O to hook up. I've done that once or twice myself. That's also a way to decrease the time to establish fireground water supply which is another ISO metric. Everything on the ISO list is there for a reason. And since the best way to get more money for the fire department is to save the taxpayers money and then take a piece of it back, ISO is the game that needs to be played. It's their sandbox, we have to play nice.

- Brian