1. #1
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    Default Member working 2 full time IAFF Locals

    I was wondering what others thoughts were regarding a new hire to our full time IAFF Local who never quit his other full time IAFF Local position.

    His other Local has laid off members waiting to be brought back while he collects 2 paychecks from two different cities.

    He gives no real reason for why he is doing this.

    The IAFF, when contacted, doesnt have a problem with it as long as he is paying dues and pension in both cities.

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks in advance for any replies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spatula
    I was wondering what others thoughts were regarding a new hire to our full time IAFF Local who never quit his other full time IAFF Local position.

    His other Local has laid off members waiting to be brought back while he collects 2 paychecks from two different cities.

    He gives no real reason for why he is doing this.

    The IAFF, when contacted, doesnt have a problem with it as long as he is paying dues and pension in both cities.

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks in advance for any replies.
    Is he actually WORKING the two jobs or is he maybe burning off acquired leave????
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spatula
    The IAFF, when contacted, doesnt have a problem with it as long as he is paying dues and pension in both cities.
    I suppose I don't either, but as I recall this has been brought up before and a lot of guys don't like it.

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    I have heard of it and know most guys don't like it.

    At some point there is too much firehouse if you ask me.

    Also it will become a problem in his career.

    What about if he gets transferred from one of his shifts? I could see a dept doing that to spite a person.

    What happens when you become sick or injured for one of the jobs? I can see two towns fighting over who is going to cover medical costs for a heart or hypertension claim. I would nto want to pay 100% of a guys claims if I was a town manager.

    The IAFF should discourage this practice. Becuase sometimes people are not smart enought to protect themselves.

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    This individual must not have much of a personal life if he's doing this. I love my job as a ff but that's a good way to get burnt out on the job. What happens if he gets detained after his shift is over for a call or something would'nt that cause problems with ot on the other dept? Just asking.

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    The member is working both jobs for the extra money, not to burn off any time left over.

    I believe he is waiting for a residency case to be passed in the city he came from. If it does, then he will quit our city and go back. If it doesnt , he will come to our city. The court process for this may take a few years.

    He has a wife and 3 kids.

    I came to our city 2 years ago from the same department he came from. I quit and brought back a laid off member. Our department is growing quickly, (i have 7 guys hired after me in 2 years), and has a very bright future and promise for promotion.

    There are still 20 laid off members waiting to be brought back in the city we came from.

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    Default shifts

    In regards to his shifts conflicting, he gets off work at 7 am on B shift in our city, and starts work at 830 am on C shift in the other city. so he has an 1 1/2 hour buffer to get to the other job.

    If he was running late, he could probably call and get someone to hold over for him for an hour or two.

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    I personally don't agree with it. But how different is it from a Capt with 34 yrs who's staying for the 10% more pay than he'd get from his pension? A friend of mine was laid off with 25 others, when there were 40 guys who were eligible to retire and didn't because they hoped the city would offer them a bigger buyout-but didn't.

    Just like the rest of the world, firemen can be selfish.

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    I would think the IAFF would have a problem with it. It takes away a job to a potential new member.
    Does that individual count as one IAFF member or two?

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    Default Member in 2 locals

    The IAFF, when contacted, doesnt have a problem with it as long as he is paying dues and pension in both cities.



    He counts as two IAFF union members i.e. he joined our local and maintained membership in his old local.

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    Default Member working 2 full time IAFF Locals

    In my local located in central florida, there is a company officer who is a recent new hire. The gentleman is employed by 2 locals in which he is supposibly awaiting a deal for a buy out in the other pension plan. I do not have a problem, as long as he pays his dues! In our situation, the average years of experience of Firefighters is 5 yrs. this Company Officer has 20+. That is more than most of our Chiefs. . He is a great asset to my department!

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    It's just wrong.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    I agree with Gonzo on this one. It's just wrong! What happens when one job demands this person to work overtime? Which one would he choose?

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    I gotta draw a bit of a connection to the two-hatter arguement as well.

    If the IAFF doesn't want career guys volunteering because they could get hurt on thier volley job and inadvertently affect the career dept, why would a second career job not carry the same risks?

    The fellow you mentioned seems to be looking out for himself and his family by covering his bases, but I think it carries the risk of too many complications for either city to be happy with the arrangement.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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    I dont believe that the IAFFs concern is with a member injuring themselves on a volunteer job. That would strictly be a city side issue, not a union issue. The union doesnt want any restrictions on what a member does on the side to make more money for their family.

    Their concern is that if a city is allowed to hire firefighters with experience to man their stations, and firefighters get current training from other cities, then that city will never see a need to set aside funds to pay for a full time department for themselves, and a new union will never be formed that would bring new members and funds into the IAFF.

    The IAFF also doesnt want you to work for a full time police department either. Why? We'll help our our fellow union brothers in blue, but not our laid off, current members?


    Here's my point of view:

    Our union constantly receives letters from other locals asking for donations for members who have suffered and/or died to help support their families.
    We always donate something to help our fellow union brothers in need.

    Now, what would be a better donation to a fellow brother then to give him his job back? This member working two locals has this ability,yet wont exercise it to benefit a fellow suffering brother.

    This member does not need the extra money. If he needed it for his family, for an operation or meds or something else, well, then you could compare his hardship to what the laid off members are facing. But he has no hardship. He is making extra principle payments on his house.



    I dont consider this the same as a firefighter eligible to retire because:

    1. Having 1 job is not being greedy. Everyone is entitled to one union job, and shouldnt be forced out until they are ready. They may have a lot of bills.

    2. Staying on the job keeps your benefits. I know of a Captain who retired and 1 year after he did, his families prescriptions, which they need, went from $40 a month to $400 a month! How can you be expected to plan for something like that?

    3. Staying on the job enables your experience to benefit the newer members of the union.

    4. Who knows what the future will hold for our pension? If you want to pad your nest egg a little longer, then by all means , go for it.

    If this member wants extra money, he should get a job as a paramedic in a hospital, instead of intentionally holding up a laid off guys spot.

    1 IAFF job = normal expectation
    2 IAFF jobs= ?????

    Lastly, what about the laid off guy? He wants to continue his pension contributions, he wants to shorten the time span till he can retire, he wants to provide for his family. Whose needs are greater? Who is being greedy and who honestly needs help?
    Last edited by Spatula; 05-22-2006 at 01:05 AM.

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