1. #26
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    Cry me a river you mutt
    Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

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    Cry me a river you mutt
    So...you're wishing physical, emotional, and financial damage on fellow firefighters, simply because of a legal interpretation? You're some kind of man, let me tell you.

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    The individual here hasn't been totally denied coverage. Workmans comp has paid his medical bills and is paying him a weekly pittance. What he is trying to collect is in addition to the workmans comp. NY has serious issues with the VFBL being up to date with it's payment amounts as well as workmans comp amounts. He's only looking to be able to live in the manner that he did before the accident. Unfortunatley lawyers and insurance companies are mainly out to cover their own interests for the sake of the almighty buck.

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    So, because I am a firefighter, I should expect insurance companies to make exception for me even if I am not covered under their policy?

    Sounds reasonable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman
    "Pedestrians injured by motor vehicles in the State are also protected by No-Fault."

    "Under this coverage, your insurer pays you and relatives living with you for economic losses arising from injuries sustained in motor vehicle accidents anywhere within the United States, its territories and possessions, or Canada."


    Seems to me he should be covered...IF his name was on the policy.

    The pedestrians in this case are pedestrians hit by YOUR car.

    "to a driver or passenger injured in your car and to pedestrians injured by your car, because of its use or operation."

  6. #31
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    No, not FFers, just mutts
    Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

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    No, not FFers, just mutts
    I believe that anyone who would write something as stupid as you did deserves the title FAR more. Wishing physical harm on someone? C'mon...get a grip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by REVANANT
    The individual here hasn't been totally denied coverage. Workmans comp has paid his medical bills and is paying him a weekly pittance. What he is trying to collect is in addition to the workmans comp. NY has serious issues with the VFBL being up to date with it's payment amounts as well as workmans comp amounts. He's only looking to be able to live in the manner that he did before the accident. Unfortunatley lawyers and insurance companies are mainly out to cover their own interests for the sake of the almighty buck.
    Larry,

    You are absolutely correct!!! He would not have to had to hire a lawyer if Utica National wasn't trying to pull a fast one. The biggest problem with the situation is Utica National. They are claiming that he is not a listed member. However, every year Utica National is given a list by the department with names and driver's license numbers of EVERY member. Utica has come back and said that we cover the department but not the members. That makes absolutely no sense and that is what we are fighting over. From what we are being told, this is the same coverage for every fire department that has Utica National Insurance. Talk with a claims representative at Utica. Not the underwriters. Our agent and underwriter told us that we would be covered. The claims department is the one denying it. Currently our agent is busting his behind trying to help us fight this. For the sake of your members, check your policy!!!

    Noz,

    Thanks for throwing a copy of the NYS insurance law up there. I think you clarified the coverage I mentioned earlier very well.

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    Noz, thanks for throwing a copy of the NYS insurance law up there. I think clarified the coverage I mentioned earlier very well.
    That's the way I read it...but I'm far from being a lawyer.

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    Yankee...

    I am not familiar with Utica. Can you please tell us what the insurance policy does (or is supposed to) cover? Is it the autos themselves? Firefighter injuries? Something else? I'll do some research on my own too when I get a chance.

    PFDTruck18...

    You are being unreasonable and losing my respect quickly. You have done nothing to contribute to this discussion except blast others unnecessarily. Excuse me for wanting the facts before making a blanket statement about something I can't prove.

  11. #36
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    Excuse me for wanting the facts before making a blanket statement about something I can't prove.
    Yet
    So, because I am a firefighter, I should expect insurance companies to make exception for me even if I am not covered under their policy?
    Reads much like a statement...
    In the Navy we called you know it alls sea lawyers.
    In the fire service you are called mutts.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    WebFire -- under NY Law, from what I googled last night, you're covered by your or the policy of someone else in the same household if you're struck by a vehicle as a pedestrian under no-fault. Your / your households policy, if any, also covers you if you're injured while riding on a bus(!). Jane the 12 year old could be crossing the street and be struck by a hit-and-run...Mom & Dad's no-fault insurance pays.

    My guess is there could also be a claim against the person's personal auto insurance as well...which is where the lawyers get really deeply involved because you try and play two insurance companies against each other

    My policy (in CT) isn't no-fault, but has similiar uninsured / underinsured coverage and specifically mentions it reduces the payout by the amount of worker's compenstation. And that's on a personal policy for a motor vehicle not normally used for business.

    I'd also suspect Worker's Comp is playing into this great big grey area mess -- your policy normally covers anyone in your car. However, you can't sue you're employer for injuries if you're receiving worker's comp since that's normally a no-fault system that is in lieu of any other liability for the injuries by the employer.

    =========
    Insurance is an area many fire companies -- and myself -- don't have as good of a handle on as they should.

    I also won't sign any worker's comp paperwork until I can consult a lawyer -- one of our members got into a mess because he signed paperwork from our town's carrier that locked him into a lower reimbursement rate then what under statutes he could have collected. And that paperwork was from the municipal self-insurance pool my town participates in, so it's not like "profit" was a direct concern.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum
    Yet

    Reads much like a statement...
    In the Navy we called you know it alls sea lawyers.
    In the fire service you are called mutts.
    Did you notice the question mark at the end of my "statement"? My "statement" was in respone to PFD. You must have misread my "statement." I was ASKING if I was supposed to do that, because that is the mentality of many here.

    I certainly don't believe that one should support something based solely on the fact that someone is a firefighter. Firefighters are human too. They shouldn't be exempt from following the rules everyone that everyone must follow.

    Whether he is covered or not is the question. But if he isn't, he isn't. Exception shouldn't be made just to be nice to a firefighter.

    And, BTW, I am not saying he shouldn't be. I am merely saying that based on what we know as facts to this point, we don't know that he should be (or shouldn't). So rather than just saying "That is BS he should be covered, but I can't say why...", I decided to get more facts and determine if he truly is supposed to be covered.

    Why is this so hard to comprehend?
    Last edited by WebFire; 05-12-2006 at 01:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmatian190
    WebFire -- under NY Law, from what I googled last night, you're covered by your or the policy of someone else in the same household if you're struck by a vehicle as a pedestrian under no-fault. Your / your households policy, if any, also covers you if you're injured while riding on a bus(!). Jane the 12 year old could be crossing the street and be struck by a hit-and-run...Mom & Dad's no-fault insurance pays.

    My guess is there could also be a claim against the person's personal auto insurance as well...which is where the lawyers get really deeply involved because you try and play two insurance companies against each other

    My policy (in CT) isn't no-fault, but has similiar uninsured / underinsured coverage and specifically mentions it reduces the payout by the amount of worker's compenstation. And that's on a personal policy for a motor vehicle not normally used for business.

    I'd also suspect Worker's Comp is playing into this great big grey area mess -- your policy normally covers anyone in your car. However, you can't sue you're employer for injuries if you're receiving worker's comp since that's normally a no-fault system that is in lieu of any other liability for the injuries by the employer.

    =========
    Insurance is an area many fire companies -- and myself -- don't have as good of a handle on as they should.

    I also won't sign any worker's comp paperwork until I can consult a lawyer -- one of our members got into a mess because he signed paperwork from our town's carrier that locked him into a lower reimbursement rate then what under statutes he could have collected. And that paperwork was from the municipal self-insurance pool my town participates in, so it's not like "profit" was a direct concern.
    Thank you Dalmation.

    Well, it does seem weird to me, but that law is the law. So now we just need to find out what type of policy this is and if this law applies to it.

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    In the fire service you are called mutts.
    Good grief.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebFire
    Did you notice the question mark at the end of my "statement"? My "statement" was in respone to PFD. You must have misread my "statement." I was ASKING if I was supposed to do that, because that is the mentality of many here.

    I certainly don't believe that one should support something based solely on the fact that someone is a firefighter. Firefighters are human too. They shouldn't be exempt from following the rules everyone that everyone must follow.

    Whether he is covered or not is the question. But if he isn't, he isn't. Exception shouldn't be made just to be nice to a firefighter.

    And, BTW, I am not saying he shouldn't be. I am merely saying that based on what we know as facts to this point, we don't know that he should be (or shouldn't). So rather than just saying "That is BS he should be covered, but I can't say why...", I decided to get more facts and determine if he truly is supposed to be covered.

    Why is this so hard to comprehend?
    What makes this different than the average citizen is that he was engaged in EMERGENCY operations directing traffic at an ACCIDENT scene in a department vehicle. For those of us that live in NY state, this is a big issue. Worker's comp is a joke. You can't pay for anything on that small amount of money. If the fire department didn't get the proper coverage, this is a hard lesson learned. But if they did, the insurance company is nothing but a bunch of MUTTS in my opinion.

    Webfire and ThNozzleman,

    The injured brother's child is on here (Yankee750). The least you could do is wish his father a speedy recovery.
    Tom

    Never Forget 9-11-2001

    Stay safe out there!

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    The injured brother's child is on here (Yankee750). The least you could do is wish his father a speedy recovery.
    Understood...and I'm sure we all do. I'm actually in favor of him getting it, of course, so long as the policy exists. I guess the ball was dropped somewhere and they'll figure it out. But it's very hard to argue with black and white legalese, regardless of how much you feel for a brother's loss.

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    I appreciate all of your thoughts and prayers from everyone here. The old man is hanging in there.

    As far as where the discussion has been going...

    As you can see there is a lot of confusion about who is covered, what is covered etc. in our policy. No one seems to have the answers. Our Department, our Insurance agent, the Insurance underwriter or Utica National itself. That right there is the primary reason my father hired the lawyer. Not many of us are able to understand all of that legalese that the insurance companies and lawyers speak in. Our insurance agent and the underwriter are on our side. They are fighting like crazy trying to help us out. (They are both also volunteer fireman). Our agent is on the phone constantly with Utica trying to get this squared away. According to the lawyer (take it for what is worth), Utica is on the hook with their auto policy. We won't know for possibly years if my father will have any permanent disabilities. I don't blame him for one second for going after the insurance company for what he can get. If any of you were in the same situation, I am willing to bet the majority of you would be doing the same thing. Our department is behind him 100% in what he is doing.

    Regardless of how you feel about the situation, this is something that needs to be addressed in New York State. It is beginning to appear that there is glitch in the system all across the state. Hopefully we can get it fixed so it does not happen to another firefighter.

    I will try and post a story about how this all came about to give some more background for everybody.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYSmokey
    What makes this different than the average citizen is that he was engaged in EMERGENCY operations directing traffic at an ACCIDENT scene in a department vehicle. For those of us that live in NY state, this is a big issue. Worker's comp is a joke. You can't pay for anything on that small amount of money. If the fire department didn't get the proper coverage, this is a hard lesson learned. But if they did, the insurance company is nothing but a bunch of MUTTS in my opinion.

    Webfire and ThNozzleman,

    The injured brother's child is on here (Yankee750). The least you could do is wish his father a speedy recovery.
    First and foremost, I do wish for a speedy recovery for this brother. Didn't mean to come off that I didn't.

    Smokey...I do hope that the insurance policy is supposed to cover him and that he gets what he deserves. Please don't mistrue what I am saying for anything different. I am merely trying to point out that there is always more than one side to any story. Members on this board tend to jump in and support a firefighter regardless if he/she is in the right, and often without rationale.

    So, Yankee, good luck with your father's proceedings and a speedy recovery.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman
    Understood...and I'm sure we all do. I'm actually in favor of him getting it, of course, so long as the policy exists. I guess the ball was dropped somewhere and they'll figure it out. But it's very hard to argue with black and white legalese, regardless of how much you feel for a brother's loss.
    Very well said.

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    In all fairness and that which is right, I myself have failed to wish the injured FF and his kid best wishes and all the luck in dealing with such a circumstance. A speedy full recovery to your father Yankee750
    Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

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    Default What started this whole thing

    On the night of February 28th 2006, The Lincoln Fire Department and Walworth Ambulance were dispatched to an MVA on Rte 350 between Hennessey Rd and Paddy Line in the vicinity of the town line with Ontario. Upon arrival they found a care off the road in the trees. Several bushes, small trees and a fire hydrant were taken out in the process. Due to the location and the weather conditions (temp in the teens and blowing snow) the road was closed at the intersections of Hennessey Rd and Paddy Lane. Lincoln responded with Engine 10 and Rescue 29 to the scene as per their standard procedures. Firefighter James Gallaher responded in BR-43 (the brush truck / fire police truck) and secured the intersection at Hennessey Rd and Rte 350 (also an SOP). During the course of the call a vehicle ran through the road block at Rte 350 & Hennessey. Firefighter Gallaher took cover behind BR-43 as the vehicle went through. The vehicle that ran the road block went about 1,000-2,000 past the intersection and saw the emergency equipment in the middle of the road and apparently figured he could not get through. He then proceeded to back up. Firefighter Gallaher watched the driver come back towards and began to approach the vehicle from the side to tell the driver how to get out of the area. While he approached the vehicle, it apparently sped up and turned the wheel and it proceeded to hit fire fighter Gallaher. The impact occured almost in front of BR-43 and he ended up on the ground in front of the truck. Firefighter Gallaher called to command on his portable saying that he had been hit. Command called back to clarify whether he or the truck had been hit. When command received no response, he immediately sent an Assistant Chief (who is a NYS EMT) as well as one other other medic to see what was going on. Upon arrival (less than a minute) they found Firefighter Gallaher unconcious and not breathing laying in the middle of the road. They immediately called back to command to advise them of the situation and an ambulance was requested back at the scene. (the victim from the original accident had signed a release was not transported and Walworth Ambulance had just gotten back into their quarters.) A Mercy Flight helicopter was requested but was denied due to the weather conditions. Medics from Lincoln reestablished an air way and prepared the patient for transport. He was boarded and collared and ready to go almost by the time the ambulance arrived. Firefighter Gallaher was transported to Strong Memorial Hospital and was met there shortly thereafter by his Wife and several fellow firefighters. He awoke in the trauma room with his wife standing over him. All he remembers to this day is the car backing up towards him and then waking up in the hospital. There was about an 1 to 1-1/2 hour window that he was unconcious. He received X-Rays, MRI's and a Cat Scan. He was released from the hospital the next evening with no broken bones and a severe concussion. On his way home from the hospital, he was brought by the fire house where members from the Lincoln, Walworth, West Walworth and Ontario Fire Departments were there to greet him and welcome him home.

    As he sits now, Firefighter Gallaher still has a constant headache (somedays real severe other days rather dull), trouble communicating what he is thinking to what he is saying, no sense of taste, neck pain, back pain, a dislocated and damaged knee cap. He is undergoing physical therapy on his neck and back, seeing the Neurologist every few weeks and undergoing treatment on his left knee. If his knee does not improve, they will have to perform surgery on it.

    Currently his medical bills are being paid by workman's comp provided by Wayne County. He receives a check for $400 each week from comp and $75 a week from the Fire Department's Acccident & Sickness policy from VFIS. The concern is what will happen 6 months, 5 years and 10 years from now. He is a general contractor and I (his son) am now running the business in addition to my other job. He is fighting with Utica National over compensation for the future as well as pain and suffering. The comment has been made that he will recieve comp money if has a permanent disablity. That is true, but it is not even close to enough to live on the rest of his life if he cannot go back to work. He is only 57 years old.

    About a week ago, Firefighter Gallaher contacted the Monroe County Fire Wire (www.mcfw.com), a website about the fire service in Monroe County, NY about his problems with Utica National and the issues that he was fighting. The local news picked up on this and did the story that was linked here in the beginning. Firefighter Gallaher contacted his lawyer and they did the interviews from the laywers office with the intention of getting Utica National off of dead center and helping him out. Since then, the news story was profiled here on Firehouse.com, MSNBC as well of several local and regional outlets in Western NY. He has since recieved phone calls and or letters from the NYS Fireman's Association (FASNY), NYS Fire Chief's Association, The New York State Insurance Commissioner, NY State Senator Mike Nozzolio, NY State Assemblyman Bob Oaks, Numerous newspapers and other news organizations and wouldn't you know Utica National Insurance and VFIS. It appears that the publicity is having it's desired effect. Apparently Utica and VFIS are concerned about the bad press they are receiving. Hopefully they will step back and do the right thing!!!!

    Again, I appreciate all of the thoughts and prayers of all of the brothers out there. I thought that some more background on the whole situation would clear up some questions.

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    I wish him luck on his recovery and his insurance battle. After reading your story of what happened, I can flat out say my automobile insurance would provide me nothing in that case. My Departments vehicle insurance would however.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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