1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator
    Problem is FFred if you run a lot of mutual aid (automatic or requested) it becomes very confusing to the IC to hear "Kentville Engine 1" and "West Kentville Engine 1" and "...... Engine 1"

    In your situation, that it rarely an issue, but to us in the styx, it's a very common situation. There needs to be an easily identifable system which quickly designates department or company/truck type/truck desgination so that the IC and quickly identify multiple units that may have similiar names.

    One thing that a former department of mine did was they never repeated a number. So we had 4E1, 4E2, 4E3, 4T4 .. etc. So if you only caught the last digit because of a radio clip, you still knew what unit was calling.

    Most operations that I'm either familiar with or have heard about are regionalized...obviously if you guys have developed a system for all the departments that are dispatched by the same agency one could easily just assign them Engine Numbers. At one time Brooklyn had and Engine 1,2,3,4.... just as Manhattan did. When the City and thus FDNY merged together they just added 100 and then another 100 to Brooklyn and Queens so Engine Co. 1 in Brookly is now Engine Co. 201. And there still is an Engine Co. 1 in Manhattan. This allowed for Manhattan and the Bronx to add Engines as they saw(no Engines from 97 up to 150) fit as it created no more Engines Until Engine Co. 151-168 for Staten Island and Brooklyn and Queens start at 201 to 332. All with a few openings created by random skips or disbandings like 56, 11, 203, 215 etc...

    Your Kentland Engine Co. 1 should be Engine Co. 1 and West Kentland Engine Co. 1 could be Engine Co. 2 and so on and so forth in lieu of Engine 10-188 or 1425 or whatever coded numbering system one could develop. If your entire county or parish or whatever is all under the same dispatch...just assign all the companies a number begining with 1 and progress up to wherever you need to go.

    Obviously 10-codes are the least of everyones worries.

    FTM-PTB

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    Default numbering system

    Here in Penobscot County, Maine the county devised a system several years ago. Station Numbers 11-99.
    Then ie: chief 0
    pumper 1-3
    tanker 4
    ladder 5
    brush unit 6
    utilty 7
    rescue 8 (non transporting)
    ambulance 9
    We are station 71 chief is 710, engine is 711, tanker is 714, brush truck 716, rescue is 718

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    Most operations that I'm either familiar with or have heard about are regionalized...obviously if you guys have developed a system for all the departments that are dispatched by the same agency one could easily just assign them Engine Numbers. At one time Brooklyn had and Engine 1,2,3,4.... just as Manhattan did. When the City and thus FDNY merged together they just added 100 and then another 100 to Brooklyn and Queens so Engine Co. 1 in Brookly is now Engine Co. 201. And there still is an Engine Co. 1 in Manhattan. This allowed for Manhattan and the Bronx to add Engines as they saw(no Engines from 97 up to 150) fit as it created no more Engines Until Engine Co. 151-168 for Staten Island and Brooklyn and Queens start at 201 to 332. All with a few openings created by random skips or disbandings like 56, 11, 203, 215 etc...

    Your Kentland Engine Co. 1 should be Engine Co. 1 and West Kentland Engine Co. 1 could be Engine Co. 2 and so on and so forth in lieu of Engine 10-188 or 1425 or whatever coded numbering system one could develop. If your entire county or parish or whatever is all under the same dispatch...just assign all the companies a number begining with 1 and progress up to wherever you need to go.

    Obviously 10-codes are the least of everyones worries.

    FTM-PTB
    I understand what you are saying, but I don't think you understood my question. It is simple for each department to use the system you are suggesting if they only operate one of each apparatus (engine, ladder/tower, squad, etc.). What happens when they have two engines?

    Even large county departments like PG use a numbering system based on what station/department the apparatus is assigned.

    In the FDNY the apparatus are numbered, and not the stations.
    For example: Engine 1 and Ladder 24 (FDNY) are housed at the same station, but do not have the same number.

    MOST of the system described here have the stations numbered, with the apparatus assigned the number of the station.
    For example: Station 6 could operate: Engine 6, Engine 61, Ladder 6, and Rescue 6
    Last edited by loxfire16; 11-13-2006 at 06:12 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by loxfire16
    MOST of the system described here have the stations numbered, with the apparatus assigned the number of the station.
    For example: Station 6 could operate: Engine 6, Engine 61, Ladder 6, and Rescue 6
    Or...you can use the system we do. Similar idea, departments are numbered (amount of stations they might have is irrelevant and not factored in). But instead of saying Engine 6, we use the pump capacity. 6-1750 = a 1750 GPM engine. Or ladder height. 6-75 = a 75' stick. Anything else is given plain English descriptions or acronyms, such as 6-Rescue or 6-ATV. If you have two 1500 GPM pumpers, one is 6-1500 and the other 6-1501. There's really nothing to "dechiper" except the Dept #, and as a bonus you know EXACTLY what type of truck you're getting, right down to the pump capacity or aerial height.

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    Quote Originally Posted by loxfire16
    I understand what you are saying, but I don't think you understood my question. It is simple for each department to use the system you are suggesting if they only operate one of each apparatus (engine, ladder/tower, squad, etc.). What happens when they have two engines?

    Even large county departments like PG use a numbering system based on what station/department the apparatus is assigned.

    In the FDNY the apparatus are numbered, and not the stations.
    For example: Engine 1 and Ladder 24 (FDNY) are housed at the same station, but do not have the same number.

    MOST of the system described here have the stations numbered, with the apparatus assigned the number of the station.
    For example: Station 6 could operate: Engine 6, Engine 61, Ladder 6, and Rescue 6
    Ahh 10-4 Loxfire16...I see what you are saying now.

    I recall a large dept I think in Ohio for whatever reason a few years back completely overhauled their number system from something like ours to something like PG countys. Where the Ladders were stripped of their identity and numbers and were given new numbers identical to the Engine in quarters with them.

    Didn't make sense to me when I read it then and still doesn't today but if that is what makes their boat float then good for them. Don't know what that cost to switch over the dispatch computers, the appratus door markings. lables, forms...etc. or what it did operationally for them.

    Personally I never understood numbering by "station" or house as if a department has twelve firehouses with twelve Engines and five Ladder Co.s And the Ladders are in quarters with Engines 2 ,6,7,8 & 11 I don't understand why one wouldn't number them Ladders 1 thru 5...but again there is no coded info neccesary to call for an Engine or a Ladder so it isn't a problem.

    I seem to recall DCFD years ago actually assigned Letters to their Ladders as Hook & Ladder F or J...etc. But there is no code in Ladder C,D...etc.

    Now for us during the early 1900s into the late 70s the FDNY had what were refered to as second sections and there was even a third section in one Engine. If you had two sections they were refered to as Engine Co. 91-2 or in verbal parlance (Nintey-One-Two) or 50-2. Or 103-2. But in other cases they actually opened entire new companies and had multiple Engines in the same house, like E82 E85, L31 and TCU712 which was the FDNYs brief experimentation with coded identifications...today there is one house with two Engines 264, 328 and L134. But each company is numbered as its own...the reason we aren't numbered 1-200+ with no missing in between is space that was created for expansion and a few disbandings along the way.

    Now a system as you descibe really isn't coded...Engine 6 and 61 isn't a big departure from E91 and 91-2.

    Both much different than Units 822 and 1453...but I digress...it just seemed a bit complicated for the people who claimed 10-codes needed to be done away with.

    Numerous persons clammored for the end to 10-codes a few months back...but it would seem 10 codes are the least of our problems when I need an enigma machine to determine your local call sign for Engine Co. 16.

    Either way I'm not loosing sleep over it.

    FTM-PTB

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    My County has setup a standard numbering system, which most departments use but some have taken their own liberties with it. About 2/3 of the County are dispatched by the County, the rest (like mine) have our own dispatching (Thank God).

    All vehicles/officers are designated with a 4 digit code. First 2 digits are the station number. The County listed all the stations alphabetically (as best they could) and numbered them...I am 42.

    All officers have a 0 for last digit. The third digit is for what rank. Chief's are 0, Deputy/Assistant's are 1, Captains 2, Lt's 3 and 4. So, our Chief is 4200, our Captain is 4220, etc.

    Vehicles last digit is determined by the type. (I don't remember all the codes as we have never used some)

    1=1000+gpm engine
    2=500-1000 gpm engine?
    3=Rescue vehicle
    4=Transport vehicle
    5=Aerial
    6=Boat
    7=Service Vehicle (lights/generators/fire police/etc)
    8=Brush?

    The third digit is used when more than 1 of those vehicles is in the same station.

    My 50' Teleboom is 4205 (station 42, 1st vehicle of that type, 5=aerial)
    My 1750 engine is 4201.

    Nearby station has ....4001, 4011, 4021 - all are 1000gpm engines from the same station.


    You can have mutual aid coming in from anywhere in the County and have an idea of what is showing up. It's not perfect, but it works.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    That sounds really complicated to remember. In our county, most every dept still uses truck 1, truck 2, etc. We use 100 numbers. 101 is 1st pumper, 102, 2nd. Our 1st squad is 106 then 107. Its better than others around here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RLFD14
    Dave, how does this system handle more than one truck-type from the same station? IE, Engine 2 is the engine at Station 2, so what do you call the 2nd engine from Station 1?

    Our county has the same station numbering.... for instance my township has 81 through 84 reserved. Even though there are not 4 stations. We have 3, with room to have another. Anyhow, we really dont break it down the same.

    In station 81 we have Engine's 81 and 83, tankers 83 and 84, Rescue 81, Squad 81, and Brush 81. In station 82 we have Engine 82, tanker 82, squad 82, brush 82 and 83. Station 83, wich is right beside 81.... is mostly storage.

    But when the call comes through, its "Squad 81-1, or Squad 81-2. Engine 81-1, 81-2,81-3." So the county uses the Main station number then the truck. Even though Engine 81-2 comes out of station 82... the county dont keep track of that.

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    OH ya.... I was also at a department... station 22 that numbered there trucks in order Engine 1,2 tanker 1,2 brush1, first responder 1.

    so engine 1 was 2201, engine 2 was 2202, tanker 1 was 2203, tanker 2 was 2204, brush 2205, first response 2206

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    Give each station a number, Then each truck becomes that number. If there are duplicate apparatus like two engines place another number after it.

    My fire company:
    Station 32

    Apparatus:
    Engine 32, Engine 32-1 (if there were more engine it would be 32-2, 32-3, 32-4)
    We dont have a ladder but it would be ladder 32 if we did.
    Rescue 32
    Marine 32
    Utility 32
    Chief 32, Deputy 32, Assistant 32

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    Default Waukesha County Numbering system

    Follow this link:

    http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaver...kNumbering.htm

    The county is split into four qaudrants and the FD's numbers are set up as:

    1000 series southeast
    2000 series northeast
    3000 series southwest
    4000 series northwest
    If you follow the link the numbering sysem is explained.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    Ahh 10-4 Loxfire16...I see what you are saying now.

    I recall a large dept I think in Ohio for whatever reason a few years back completely overhauled their number system from something like ours to something like PG countys. Where the Ladders were stripped of their identity and numbers and were given new numbers identical to the Engine in quarters with them.

    Didn't make sense to me when I read it then and still doesn't today but if that is what makes their boat float then good for them. Don't know what that cost to switch over the dispatch computers, the appratus door markings. lables, forms...etc. or what it did operationally for them.

    Personally I never understood numbering by "station" or house as if a department has twelve firehouses with twelve Engines and five Ladder Co.s And the Ladders are in quarters with Engines 2 ,6,7,8 & 11 I don't understand why one wouldn't number them Ladders 1 thru 5...but again there is no coded info neccesary to call for an Engine or a Ladder so it isn't a problem.

    I seem to recall DCFD years ago actually assigned Letters to their Ladders as Hook & Ladder F or J...etc. But there is no code in Ladder C,D...etc.

    Now for us during the early 1900s into the late 70s the FDNY had what were refered to as second sections and there was even a third section in one Engine. If you had two sections they were refered to as Engine Co. 91-2 or in verbal parlance (Nintey-One-Two) or 50-2. Or 103-2. But in other cases they actually opened entire new companies and had multiple Engines in the same house, like E82 E85, L31 and TCU712 which was the FDNYs brief experimentation with coded identifications...today there is one house with two Engines 264, 328 and L134. But each company is numbered as its own...the reason we aren't numbered 1-200+ with no missing in between is space that was created for expansion and a few disbandings along the way.

    Now a system as you descibe really isn't coded...Engine 6 and 61 isn't a big departure from E91 and 91-2.

    Both much different than Units 822 and 1453...but I digress...it just seemed a bit complicated for the people who claimed 10-codes needed to be done away with.

    Numerous persons clammored for the end to 10-codes a few months back...but it would seem 10 codes are the least of our problems when I need an enigma machine to determine your local call sign for Engine Co. 16.

    Either way I'm not loosing sleep over it.

    FTM-PTB
    Im a bit late here, but I can tell you why we match house numbers to apparatus numbers. Everyone knows where the firehouses are. So if Im IC in my town and I ask for an additional truck co, by hearing the number I have an idea where its comming from, even if its a MA truck. And I dont mean by department, I know exactly where in the county that rig is, and about how long it will take to get to me.

    It would be near impossible to keep track of what MA company is in what MA house if we did it your way. Im busy enough keeping track of what goes on in my own department, let alone try and figure out where a department three cities away is keeping their aerial. Sure, I guess we could make a list, but that would have to be updated everytime a department moves a company to a different house. The way we do it, I know as soon as I ask for where in the county its comming from.

    The way you all do it makes perfect sense for one big department where its the Chiefs job to know what company is in what house, and knows about any changes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983 View Post
    Im a bit late here, but I can tell you why we match house numbers to apparatus numbers. Everyone knows where the firehouses are. So if Im IC in my town and I ask for an additional truck co, by hearing the number I have an idea where its comming from, even if its a MA truck. And I dont mean by department, I know exactly where in the county that rig is, and about how long it will take to get to me.

    It would be near impossible to keep track of what MA company is in what MA house if we did it your way. Im busy enough keeping track of what goes on in my own department, let alone try and figure out where a department three cities away is keeping their aerial. Sure, I guess we could make a list, but that would have to be updated everytime a department moves a company to a different house. The way we do it, I know as soon as I ask for where in the county its comming from.

    The way you all do it makes perfect sense for one big department where its the Chiefs job to know what company is in what house, and knows about any changes.
    Dave,

    Not sure I understand correctly, How critical is it to know that a Ladder truck is comming from one location or another in a nearby city, obviously it is going to be a delayed repsonse but there isn't much difference between 15-and 19 minutes if you have no other recourse.

    Obviously the Dispatcher is sending the closest Ladder avaiable no? And I'm sure you know where each city is as well, No?

    I'm not sure I understand the need to know exactly how far away a Ladder is comming from. I understand the need to know that a Ladder is near or one will be delayed but the need of labling the Ladder the same as the Engine in that house (provided there is an Engine there at all) doesn't seem to tell me much as I still have to remember where that firehouse is...which is no more than me remembering that E28 and L11 are on East 2nd street.

    Obviously if a Chief here calls for a 2nd alarm upon arrival at the box he knows relocators won't be in the firehouses and the companies will becomming from a farther distance. And the if the company is comming from a distance or will be delayed as they are fighting traffic in Midtown the dispatcher will notify the Chief. And because he is the Chief it is more or less his job to know where companies are and aren't and we are always notified of jobs citywide so as to know what the situtation is out there.

    Everyone with any amount of time on knows that if, lets pick a box, I found box 851 in Manhattan is at the corner of 10th Ave at W49th Street is transmitted the normal companies would proabably be I'll guess... E54,23,34 L4 & 21. Batt. 9

    Now lets say the Chief in the 7th Battalion gets a ticket for Box 851 and on it he reads E 65, 40, 26, L 35 and L2. He knows none of those of those companies are anywhere near that box and obviously there is another box out in the neighborhood. So he is expecting a delay, he knows L2 is in with E8, he knows 65 and 26 are midtown single Engines and he knows 40 and 35 are together on the UWS.

    Just the same if the lets say the city is really busy today, there is a 4 alarm in the South Bronx, a 2nd alarm in Corrona Queens taxpayer, an All Hands on the LES and 2 10-75s in Brooklyn...now there are going to be companies here there and everywhere. And the 35th Batt acting 8th gets a ticket for Box 922 1st Ave and 58th.
    He sees this on the ticket:
    E059/008 E74 E260 L7 T119/013

    Now this Chief will know Eng 59 is normally in harlem but the /008 means they are now acting Eng 8 he knows where E74 is and it is on the UWS and no where near 1st Ave and Eng 260 he knows is a Queens company who is obviously comming accross the Queensboro bridge from their quarters. L 7 is going to be comming from E29th andTL 119 is normally from Brooklyn but at this moment they are comming from Yorkville as they are acting TL 13.

    Like I said I don't understand why one numbers a company a number they don't have, like a city with 14 firehouses and only 5 ladders having a Ladder Co. 11 or 14 or whatever. It doesn't seem that hard for us and everyone knows L29 is in with Eng 83 and 221 is quartered with H&L104 , 33/9, 4/15, 10/10and L20 is with the 1st Divison in Hells Hundred Acres....etc.

    How is differ from your expereince?

    How often do cities move companies from one house to another...here that is a rare and usually emmotionally charged event with the community even if it is only temporary.

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 01-02-2007 at 05:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    Dave,

    Not sure I understand correctly, How critical is it to know that a Ladder truck is comming from one location or another in a nearby city, obviously it is going to be a delayed repsonse but there isn't much difference between 15-and 19 minutes if you have no other recourse.

    Obviously the Dispatcher is sending the closest Ladder avaiable no? And I'm sure you know where each city is as well, No?

    I'm not sure I understand the need to know exactly how far away a Ladder is comming from. I understand the need to know that a Ladder is near or one will be delayed but the need of labling the Ladder the same as the Engine in that house (provided there is an Engine there at all) doesn't seem to tell me much as I still have to remember where that firehouse is...which is no more than me remembering that E28 and L11 are on East 2nd street.

    Obviously if a Chief here calls for a 2nd alarm upon arrival at the box he knows relocators won't be in the firehouses and the companies will becomming from a farther distance. And the if the company is comming from a distance or will be delayed as they are fighting traffic in Midtown the dispatcher will notify the Chief. And because he is the Chief it is more or less his job to know where companies are and aren't and we are always notified of jobs citywide so as to know what the situtation is out there.

    Everyone with any amount of time on knows that if, lets pick a box, I found box 851 in Manhattan is at the corner of 10th Ave at W49th Street is transmitted the normal companies would proabably be I'll guess... E54,23,34 L4 & 21. Batt. 9

    Now lets say the Chief in the 7th Battalion gets a ticket for Box 851 and on it he reads E 65, 40, 26, L 35 and L2. He knows none of those of those companies are anywhere near that box and obviously there is another box out in the neighborhood. So he is expecting a delay, he knows L2 is in with E8, he knows 65 and 26 are midtown single Engines and he knows 40 and 35 are together on the UWS.

    Just the same if the lets say the city is really busy today, there is a 4 alarm in the South Bronx, a 2nd alarm in Corrona Queens taxpayer, an All Hands on the LES and 2 10-75s in Brooklyn...now there are going to be companies here there and everywhere. And the 35th Batt acting 8th gets a ticket for Box 922 1st Ave and 58th.
    He sees this on the ticket:
    E059/008 E74 E260 L7 T119/013

    Now this Chief will know Eng 59 is normally in harlem but the /008 means they are now acting Eng 8 he knows where E74 is and it is on the UWS and no where near 1st Ave and Eng 260 he knows is a Queens company who is obviously comming accross the Queensboro bridge from their quarters. L 7 is going to be comming from E29th andTL 119 is normally from Brooklyn but at this moment they are comming from Yorkville as they are acting TL 13.

    Like I said I don't understand why one numbers a company a number they don't have, like a city with 14 firehouses and only 5 ladders having a Ladder Co. 11 or 14 or whatever. It doesn't seem that hard for us and everyone knows L29 is in with Eng 83 and 221 is quartered with H&L104 , 33/9, 4/15, 10/10and L20 is with the 1st Divison in Hells Hundred Acres....etc.

    How is differ from your expereince?

    How often do cities move companies from one house to another...here that is a rare and usually emmotionally charged event with the community even if it is only temporary.

    FTM-PTB
    That was a lot to digest.

    Well, perhaps my useing a ladder company wasnt the best example. The point I was trying to make has more to do with operational issues. If I ask for an additional company to handle a particular task, and I know that company's going to be delayed then perhaps Ill adjust my tactics and use what I already have. Or, if I hear my next company is comming from a distance and I know a closer one is at the training grounds or wherever, I can make the call to pull that company out of training.

    I dont know, perhaps its just because weve always done it this way and were all used to it. Maybe your way would work here.

    Hell, Ive been wrong before.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983 View Post
    That was a lot to digest.

    Well, perhaps my useing a ladder company wasnt the best example. The point I was trying to make has more to do with operational issues. If I ask for an additional company to handle a particular task, and I know that company's going to be delayed then perhaps Ill adjust my tactics and use what I already have. Or, if I hear my next company is comming from a distance and I know a closer one is at the training grounds or wherever, I can make the call to pull that company out of training.

    I dont know, perhaps its just because weve always done it this way and were all used to it. Maybe your way would work here.

    Hell, Ive been wrong before.
    I just find that type of numbering odd. I'm sure you know where everthing is. I just found it odd that one rather large midwest FD switched inexplicably from a system like ours to one like yours.

    I just don't see much benefit in switching, and I'm not aware of any FD that has gone from one like yours to one like ours.

    And if your companies just stick with a simple number that is more or less what we do I just find it odd that so many want to make it so complicated with coded numbering systems when Engine 34 works better than unit 1357.

    FTM-PTB

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    A uniform system that applies nationwide?? NOOOO...not gonna happen, despite the best efforts of the NIMS people to do so. Search the forums & you'll quickly see that FD's use different color helmets for various positions, different size handlines for high rise packs, etc...and that's OK...the field of emergency services is about adapting to the individual situation at hand which is beyond the norm so "cookie cutter" solutions don't work for a "one size fits all" approach.

    To answer the question at hand, our county of 115 FD's uses the following system - the townships (large geographical areas covering numerous communities) are divided into divisions (10 in all) with each department being assigned a two digit identifier to identify the division and the individual department (i.e. 1-20 is the 1st Division, 20th department) while the 3rd digit is to identify the individual apparatus. Now as far as the 3rd digit, that gets a little tricky because there is not a uniform system to identify apparatus type by number (i.e. 1, 2 or 3 = engine, 5 = ladder, 6 = rescue, 7 = ambulance).
    There are some generic ones that apply (i.e. an ambulance is usually 16, the signal for an ambulance call, addt'l ambulances usually run in sequential numbers) and chiefs/line/safety officers have designated numbers to clearly identify their rank (1st asst. chief, 2nd lt., safety officer, etc.).

    There is one local division (5 depts.) that uses a divisionwide numbering system so anytime you hear an apparatus identifier, regardless of dept., you know what type of apparatus it is. They use 1-5 for engines, 6 for ambulances (6-1, 6-2 for addt'l units), 7 for ladders, 8 for brush trucks (8A,
    8B, etc.), 9 for heavy rescue, etc. From listening to their communications, it semms to make things easier...when you hear a rig hit the road, the chief knows exactly what he's got coming instead of doing guesswork (um, let's see unit 2 from ABC FD, now is that an engine or the fire police van... ).

    One other area I know of uses a similar system but assigns specific numbers to identify the capacity of an apparatus (i.e. 1500 GPM or 1750 GPM engine,
    75' or 100' aerial platform, etc.). Seems like an ok system, my only concern would be when you have multiple apparatus fitting the same criteria...but hey, if it works for them, more power to 'em.

    My advice would be to use whatever system works for YOUR particular needs as a dept., division or county. NIMS has its' place but don't let the feds tell you how to run your ops 'cause the chances of you ever running into them are slim to none (besides they probably won't show up 'till 3 days after anyway..."You're doin' a great job, Brownie"). Quite simply...USE WHAT WORKS!!!

    Just my 2 cents..Stay Safe...

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED View Post
    And if your companies just stick with a simple number that is more or less what we do I just find it odd that so many want to make it so complicated with coded numbering systems when Engine 34 works better than unit 1357.

    FTM-PTB
    I think the numbering issue is a larger concern in areas where mutual aide is regular or where frequencies are shared. For example, you aren't going to be calling too many companies in to help...so you have no confusion on who Engine 24 is. My old FD, however, could call for help from any of 8 different agencies just on a 2nd alarm. It does matter if it is city A's Engine 2 or city B's Engine 2.

    While we could refer to them as City A Engine 2 and City B Engine 2, it is just as easy and uses less air time to say 702 and 802.
    My comments are sometimes educated, sometimes informed and sometimes just blowing smoke...but they are always mine and mine alone and do not reflect upon anyone else (especially my employer).

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    Quote Originally Posted by firemanjb View Post
    I think the numbering issue is a larger concern in areas where mutual aide is regular or where frequencies are shared. For example, you aren't going to be calling too many companies in to help...so you have no confusion on who Engine 24 is. My old FD, however, could call for help from any of 8 different agencies just on a 2nd alarm. It does matter if it is city A's Engine 2 or city B's Engine 2.

    While we could refer to them as City A Engine 2 and City B Engine 2, it is just as easy and uses less air time to say 702 and 802.
    I understand your concern jb. As it was said before everyone seems very focused on NIMS when much more critical abiet simpler issues need to be addressed.

    For example take all the Cities who are members of your regional dispatch that share the same coded unit numbers and just list them out and assign Engine numbers starting a 1 to infinity.

    For example:

    City A~ Engine 1 is now Engine 1
    Engine 2 is now Engine 2
    Engine 3 is now Engine 3
    City B~ Engine 1 is now Engine 4
    Engine 2 is now Engine 5
    Ladder 1 is now Ladder 1
    City C~Engine 1 is now Engine 6
    Engine 2 is now Engine 7
    Ladder 1 is now Ladder 2.....etc.

    Now even someone from outside you community would know who Engine 4 was...they are an Engine...as opposed to having to ask what they hell is Unit 1225?

    I really don't think it is that important, but it does illustrate why all the focus on the complicated NIMS stuff seems a bit misplaced as compared to this tpye of organization of companies and "handles"

    Just something to think about.

    FTM-PTB

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    FFFred, that's kind of why my county went with the last digit meaning what the vehicle is. ###1, engine. ###3, rescue. ###5, aerial. It can come from anywhere in the county and I know what type of vehicle I'm actually getting. The third digit is meaningless to anyone other than that company. The first two are the county assigned station #.

    I have: 4201, 4203, 4205, and 4204. Engine, rescue, aerial, transport unit (van).

    Bay Head (next town over): 1401, 1411, 1403. Engine, engine, rescue.

    All the first 3 are is to separate units.



    and then the kicker...for us...we may have Engine 4201 acting as Truck 1 at a scene and Truck 4205 acting as Engine 1. Everything has a pump and can/has been used as an engine. We don't have any "straight" ladder trucks without pumps. It works for us.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    FFFred, that's kind of why my county went with the last digit meaning what the vehicle is. ###1, engine. ###3, rescue. ###5, aerial. It can come from anywhere in the county and I know what type of vehicle I'm actually getting. The third digit is meaningless to anyone other than that company. The first two are the county assigned station #.

    I have: 4201, 4203, 4205, and 4204. Engine, rescue, aerial, transport unit (van).

    Bay Head (next town over): 1401, 1411, 1403. Engine, engine, rescue.

    All the first 3 are is to separate units.



    and then the kicker...for us...we may have Engine 4201 acting as Truck 1 at a scene and Truck 4205 acting as Engine 1. Everything has a pump and can/has been used as an engine. We don't have any "straight" ladder trucks without pumps. It works for us.

    Exactly, But perhaps I'm not saying this correctly. Everyone tells me that interaction with other departments far away is an issue and that was the reason so many supported the NIMS concepts. So why is it so many of the same people (not neccesarily you Bones) would have something as simple as the company identification labled with complicated coded systems that vary from county or region to region. At least with using basic terms like Engine or Ladder, or Truck or whatever one of these other departments from outside that everyone is so concerned about operating with would know that Engine 420 is an Engine versus Unit 4201 which could be anything to anyone.

    Why even use the last unit, why not call unit 4201 = "Engine 420" or 1403 as "Rescue 140" Then any interaction that company has with others would be much less consfusing for mutual aid companies or chiefs from outside your area.

    Once again this is just some thoughts on the subject from my obervations based on others comments regarding the 10-codes issue.

    FTM-PTB

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    A long time ago when we got our first engine, it was called "Engine 1" Then we got another and we called it "Engine 2" Now it gets tricky because we also got a truck. This they decided to call "Truck 1" then another truck came along and it was called "Truck 2" and on and on. Pretty easy system. We do have higher numbers than we have units, but that just comes from companies being taken out of service. We only have 97 or 98 engines now but our top number is engine 129.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    Why even use the last unit, why not call unit 4201 = "Engine 420" or 1403 as "Rescue 140"
    Well, if the rest of the County would catch up and operate like us, that would work. We can't even get everyone to agree on Engine vs Pumper. I won't even get into Ladder, TowerLadder, LadderTower, Stick, Snorkle, etc. Hence, the "5" being simply Aerial.

    Oh, and then we'll add in that the numbering system is only suggested as the County does not have authority to number/name stations/apparatus.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Hey, my first double post!
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    We can't even get everyone to agree on Engine vs Pumper. I won't even get into Ladder, TowerLadder, LadderTower, Stick, Snorkle, etc. Hence, the "5" being simply Aerial.
    Now that Bones is interesting. So I understand correctly, you could call for an aerial but what you get could be anything from a 55ft. Tele-squirt, 85Snorkle, 75 foot TL or a 110 rearmount ladder?

    FTM-PTB

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    Yes, that is correct. However, mutual aid companies know pretty well who has what and know what they will get. Only when the County Coordinators get involved does it get confusing.

    For the most part, in this end of the county at least, all the departments have their MA plans worked out with each other. The County Coordinators usually worry about station coverages for our areas. We tell them who we are calling (or they already have our SOP's) and they call for fill in's. And they don't always call the next over fill in, they may skip a town or two to balance everything out.

    If a call gets beyond our 4 levels of MA, we could then ask the coordinator to special call additional units, but at that time, we have about 16 engines, 4 aerials (over 100'), 3 aerials (under 100') and 2 or 3 rescues.


    I believe there are other parts of the County that use the coordinators much more often, and give them more control.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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