1. #1
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    Default Nozzle tip for our new Elkhart RAM pocket monitor

    My volly FD purchased an Elkhart Ram for our new rescue pumper. It will be attached to a dead lay bed of 500 feet of 3 inch hose. We purchased a 1 3/8 inch smooth bore for it and a 500 gpm combination nozzle.

    I am an advocate of the smoothbore but can see benefits of the combination nozzle. The discharge that this monitor will be supplied by is a Class A foan discharge. Not CAFs just Class A. So in my mind the combo nozzle would be better for that by entraining air into the stream better. Yet with dishwater type foam a smooth bore should be fine.

    So give me your viewpoint. We have both, just which one stays on the gun normally is the question.

    Thanks for your insights.

    FyredUp

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    Default Tips

    I think that for most applications the solid stream tip would work well. However, if you are using the device specifically for Class A application and want some expansion (i.e. pre-treating or exposure protection), the combination tip would be more effective.
    Ed Hartin, MS, EFO, MIFireE

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    Any hose larger than 1 3/4" for us has a smoothbore. Reason being, if the fire is that large that larger lines are required, the reach and penetration of a smoothbore is what we will *most* likely be looking for. I have yet to see a need for a 2 1/2" fog pattern. Also note, we have never used foam through a 2 1/2" or larger either so that has not figured into our reasoning.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    On this new engine the 2 rear 2 1/2 discharges as well as the 2 mid mounted 2 inch crosslays and the 2 front bumber 2 inch crosslays are all Class A foam capable.

    We decided to put foam to this RAM monitor because of the size of some of our buildings in town as well as for barn fires.

    I am in complete agreement with the smoothbore for water only applications. yet I am of the mind that in the majority of cases we will be going foam right from the get go.

    So does anyone have any experience flowing Class A foam at about .3% through a smoothbore nozzle? I am wondering since for the most part the foam at that percentage is used for penetration and breaking down of the water's surface tension perhaps a smooth bore nozzle woud be okay.

    Maybe we will just have to set it up and play around with it to see how either option works.

    I am still open to your ideas...so keep them coming.

    FyredUp

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    In my experiance with class "A", a "blanket" like you get with AFFF isnt what you need or are looking for. Ive used both and think for class "A" a solid tip is fine.
    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

    IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

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    Default Ram

    We bought several for our department (13 to be exact), and had many long talks about which tip we should leave on. We decided to go with the combo. nozzle, we have both but it is so versatile and it really can reach just about as far as the smooth bore. We played with it alot, but we figure if it is going to be used as "rapid attack" we might as well make sure we can be ready for anything. We haven't messed with the foam though. We love the monitor.

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    Default Either tip will be fine!

    The chioce is yours. The combination has a reach that is equal to the smooth bores. Class A foam will work through either nozzle as they both entrain air. Besides, you are using the foam more for the reduction of the waters surface tension and it does not need to be expanded for this. You will get the same penetration with the combination as long as the flow is equal to the combinations. We tested it and flowed 500gpm. We then put on a 1-3/8 inch tip and also flowed 500 gpm. The reach was the same at around 130 feet.The advantage to the combination is that if you need to change the stream for any reason you can. You give that up with the smooth bore. If you do want to put down a thicker blanket of foam you can go to a fog pattern where you will entrain more air and expand the foam. my vote would be the more versitle combination tip.

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    Default

    FyredUp -

    It's been about a year - which tip did you guys end up deciding to use on the RAM? What did you find with your Class A foam trials and the smoothbore?

    We're using TFT 500gpm autos on both the Blitzfires we currently have in service, but I'd like to move away from the autos, for reasons you can probably imagine. I'd like to just swap them out for a couple of nice chrome 1 3/8" tips, but - like your situation - we run Class A by default on one of the engines.

    I was thinking about using a Vindicator Blitz Attack tip for the Blitzfire that runs Class A, the only disadvantage being the 100 psi NP @ 500 gpm (we use 2 1/2" to feed the Blitzfires, so NP becomes more of an issue), as well as the need to adapt down to a 1 1/2" coupling.

    Anyway - I'll probably get out and run some trials in the coming weeks, but I'd be curious to hear what you guys found. Our new engine will be arriving here shortly, but the only question for that will be what size tip we'll use for the hardest hitting CAF attack.

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    Depends if your talking about Class A or CAFS. However, we flow both thru and 1-3/4 with a 1" solid bore and don't seem to have any problem with that.

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    Wellit is all very interesting here what we decided to do.

    The RAM has both nozzles by it and the operator decides which one they want. Both worked fine and gave great streams and reach. The combo does give more aeration of the foam though.

    So I guess in essence we never did decide!!

    FyredUp

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