Thread: There Baaaaack!

  1. #1
    Forum Member
    tbonetrexler's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Magnolia, Delaware US
    Posts
    527

    Angry There Baaaaack!

    05/17/2006 9:23 PM EST

    SEAFORD- An out-of-state church has filed an application to picket the funeral service for a Seaford Marine killed in Iraq.

    The city of Seaford issued a permit to the Topeka, Kan., Westboro Baptist Church on Tuesday, May 16. It allows the group to picket for 45 minutes near St. John's United Methodist Church during this weekend's services for Cpl. Cory Palmer, 21, who died after he was injured in an explosion near Fallujah on May 1.

    Seaford City Manager Dolores J. Slatcher said the permit is currently under review and is subject to change.

    Friends of the family wish they could grieve in peace.

    "Everybody has their own constitutional rights of what they want to do and how they want to do it," said Ron Marvel, a friend of the family. "Certainly I would hope that they would not disturb this family in their greatest time of grieving that they've ever had."

    Westboro Baptist Church has a long list of scheduled protests around the nation. Church leaders say they are not picketing the actual funeral services. They say their demonstrations are "in support of God punishing the nation for its sins on the battlefield," including the war in Iraq. The church's leaders also say it is about picketing what the the church considers patriotic pep rallys for fallen members of the armed forces.

    Some Delaware lawmakers are pushing for a bill that would ban protests of all funerals.

    They have proposed a bill that would help to safeguard these sacred family moments. The bill passed the house and is waiting approval in the Senate.

    On Wednesday, Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich signed into law the "Let Them Rest in Peace Act," which bars protests within 200 feet of funerals shortly before, during and shortly after services. At least two dozen other states are considering similar laws.
    Do a little dance, make a little rum, Italian Ice! Italian Ice!

    Actual lyric: Do a little dance, make a little love, get down tonight, get down tonight.
    (KC & The Sunshine Band "Do A Little Dance")

    My thoughts are mine alone and do not represent the thoughts of any Organization to which I am affiliated.

  2. #2
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Memphis Tn,USA-now
    Posts
    5,436

    Default

    The Patriot Guard riders can handle them easily.
    http://www.patriotguard.org

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    Wouldn't it be a shame if a slightly misguided JDAM accidentally landed on them?
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  4. #4
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,154

    Default

    Most of 'em are part of an inbred family.

    Birth control pills in the water works for me.

    I made a U-turn just before a church in Worcester yesterday and I was wondering what was going on -- they had a very heavy police presence for a funeral (close to a dozen motorcycles & dozen cruisers just by the road). Unfortunately reading the paper today, it was for a yound soldier killed in a helicopter crash in Afghanistan. Paper also said there where a 100 Patriot Guards in attendance, fortunately no protestors.

    The procession to the cemetery between the police & the harleys must've been a site. Had I known, I would've stayed by the store I was at a few minutes longer to show respects as they went by.
    Last edited by Dalmatian190; 05-18-2006 at 01:00 PM.

  5. #5
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    177

    Default

    Hey i got an idea, lets gain support for our antiwar movement by protesting at a funeral! WHO IS STUPID ENOUGH TO THINK THIS IS A GOOD IDEA! This reminds me of that idiot that had a website that was actually celebrating the death of soldiers. I believe it was Fox news that ripped him a new one. I am not prowar, i have known two people who have died over there but i can tell you one thing, THERE IS NO F-ING WAY I WOULD EVER EVER EVER TELL A SOLDIER THAT WHAT HE IS DOING IS WRONG! I dont care if you hate war, soldiers do not sign up for war, most are people who dont know what to do and the military is an excellent option and a great way to serve our awesome country. Hate the game not the players.

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 38ffems
    I dont care if you hate war, soldiers do not sign up for war, most are people who dont know what to do and the military is an excellent option and a great way to serve our awesome country. Hate the game not the players.
    Well said.

    I watched Fahrenheit 911 and thought it was B-A-D.

    But the part I did find disturbing was watching how the military aggresively pursues HS grads with little or no means and lacking the ability to get into college. That was hard to watch.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  7. #7
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    177

    Default

    when i graduated high school 4 years ago I had taken the ASVAB test and got really high scores. I was looking into joining the navy. The attention you get when you show interest is on the level of straight up harrassment. Its definately easy to just sign up so they would leave you alone. I was damn close to joining then we started talking about Iraq. I asked the recruiter why we would be going there and they said to fight terrorism. I said, Iraq didn't attack us, then they kinda just gave the by the book answer that GW went on and on about, the whole access of evil etc.... Basically I said give me a good reason that would make me willing to risk my life for. They couldn't. Thank God i didn't sign up because I was a signature away from going in explosive ordinance disposal, the guys who are currently dealing with all of those IED and roadside bombs.

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    MOTOWN88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    DETROIT
    Posts
    415

    Default

    I am a member of the Michigan Patriot Guard Riders and I have had the sad pleasure of riding in many funerals of our fallen soldiers. Of all the rides I have done I have only been to one where "They" have showed up. At that particular service the family did not even know that "they" where there since they were obscured by an ocean of waving American flags and human bodies clad in leather. We turned our backs to them and refused to even acknowledge that they existed. Their obscene chants were drowned out by wailing bagpipes. I know that the Patriot Guard will do the job we formed to do and protect this fallen soldiers family from such a group.

    http://www.patriotguard.org/photos/l...a=show&ID=2399
    http://www.patriotguard.org/photos/l...?a=show&ID=125
    I.A.C.O.J IRISH TATTOOED-HOOLIGAN

    DETROIT FIRE FIGHTER AND PROUD!

  9. #9
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    177

    Default

    I know two people who have lost their lives defending our country, if I ever saw anyone saying anything about them I dont know what I would do but chances are one of those people would be going home with a shoe up their @ss. The irony is if it weren't for those who are willing to die for our country there would be no way for idiots to protest.

  10. #10
    the 4-1-4
    Jasper 45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    ...A great place, on a Great Lake
    Posts
    2,784

    Default

    I am a member of the Michigan Patriot Guard Riders and I have had the sad pleasure of riding in many funerals of our fallen soldiers. Of all the rides I have done I have only been to one where "They" have showed up. At that particular service the family did not even know that "they" where there since they were obscured by an ocean of waving American flags and human bodies clad in leather.

    MOTOWN, outstanding job.

  11. #11
    the 4-1-4
    Jasper 45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    ...A great place, on a Great Lake
    Posts
    2,784

    Default

    The irony is if it weren't for those who are willing to die for our country there would be no way for idiots to protest.


    This is an excellent point, and one, which I have tried to make all along. Also, this is why the burning of our flag ****es me off. Once upon a time, the flag bearer was considered the most important position in a battle line. People are too quick to treat our soldiers, and our flag with its due respect. Our Viet Nam veterans can attest to that.

    On an interesting side note, during a past conversation with my WWII veteran neighbor, he told me that he was not sure going to war with Japan was entirely appropriate. Whatever the reasons, he did still enlist. His reasoning was simple; our government knows more than we do. They have access to far more information, threat assessments, and details than the average citizen does. No matter how much we think we know, there is always far more classified intelligence that we, as average citizens know, or have a right to know.
    That is truly a fact.

  12. #12
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    37

    Angry

    well said jasper 45....

    i dont care if you are for or against the war, at least have some decency to support our troops, not protest at their funerals. geez.....what next, "dont support our troops" bumper stickers!!!

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MOTOWN88
    I am a member of the Michigan Patriot Guard Riders and I have had the sad pleasure of riding in many funerals of our fallen soldiers. Of all the rides I have done I have only been to one where "They" have showed up. At that particular service the family did not even know that "they" where there since they were obscured by an ocean of waving American flags and human bodies clad in leather. We turned our backs to them and refused to even acknowledge that they existed. Their obscene chants were drowned out by wailing bagpipes. I know that the Patriot Guard will do the job we formed to do and protect this fallen soldiers family from such a group.

    http://www.patriotguard.org/photos/l...a=show&ID=2399
    http://www.patriotguard.org/photos/l...?a=show&ID=125
    Thank you, Brother. These whackos need to be put in their place... back in their Westborough Inbred Baptist hellhole!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Here's the kicker...these mutts aren't even protesting the war in Iraq. They are protesting the recognition that America is giving homosexuals and that type of thing. They could care less about the war. They have protest at soldiers funerals because they view soldiers deaths as punishment for America's sins.

    Try searching the Wichita Eagle website (www.kansas.com) for "Westboro Baptist Church." There's an article called Road to Westboro that explains it all better than I can. I costs $3 to see it though.

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    backsteprescue123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MOTOWN88
    I am a member of the Michigan Patriot Guard Riders and I have had the sad pleasure of riding in many funerals of our fallen soldiers. Of all the rides I have done I have only been to one where "They" have showed up. At that particular service the family did not even know that "they" where there since they were obscured by an ocean of waving American flags and human bodies clad in leather. We turned our backs to them and refused to even acknowledge that they existed. Their obscene chants were drowned out by wailing bagpipes. I know that the Patriot Guard will do the job we formed to do and protect this fallen soldiers family from such a group.

    http://www.patriotguard.org/photos/l...a=show&ID=2399
    http://www.patriotguard.org/photos/l...?a=show&ID=125

    Motown, I commend your efforts and wish you luck in your mission.
    ------------------------------------
    These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
    ------------------------------------

  16. #16
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    94

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 38ffems
    Basically I said give me a good reason that would make me willing to risk my life for. They couldn't. Thank God i didn't sign up because I was a signature away from going in explosive ordinance disposal, the guys who are currently dealing with all of those IED and roadside bombs.
    Great attitude. Leave EOD to the other guy, right?
    A recruiter's job is not to convince you of the validity of causes for war because, by definition, he has no say in the matter. He goes when the country calls and he looks for other qualified people to go with him. He can't defend the causes for war anymore than he can protest against it. It's called "instant and unquestioning obedience to orders" and it's a requirement for a competent military. If you think the war in Iraq is wrong, you live in a country where you can vote against it. But to say that you chose not to be in the military because the recruiter couldn't make a case for the war lets me know that he was simply doing his job. By the way, there is more to it than the war in Iraq. Men and women are standing watch in every continent of this planet, on your behalf. If you don't want to contribute to national defense, that's your right. Be glad that they are able to do the job without forcing you to join. Oh and don't forget, being pursued by an employer means that they saw value in you as a prospective sailor. If it was me, I'd be proud that somebody would entrust the defense of the nation to me during a time of war.
    Also:
    Here's GySgt Mike Burghardt, USMC EOD. What he is doing in the picture is known as 'displaying intestinal fortitude'. Google it. He did it for you.

    transplant

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    DaSharkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Posts
    4,713

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 38ffems
    I dont care if you hate war, soldiers do not sign up for war, most are people who dont know what to do and the military is an excellent option and a great way to serve our awesome country. Hate the game not the players.
    Um.......Most folks in the military sign up to serve KNOWING that military action is a possibility, if not highly likely.

    I joined the Marine Corps immediately after the Gulf War with the knowledge and commitment to deploy should it be necessary.

    I am looking at military service options now that will put me in a war zone, and should I be called to go I will.

    Currently, only the U.S. Army has issues with recruiting goals. The Marine Corps (which has sustained a substantially disproportionate amount of KIA and WIA losses) does not. The Navy does not. The Air Force does not. The Coast Guard does not.

    In a time of war, young men and women are enlisting and joining the military. This statement does not mix with the facts in evidence.


    As for the Navy recruiters not being able to give you an answer, you made your own choice. Either you are willing to serve or you are not. No one should have to give you a reason to lay your life down. You are either willing to do it, or not. Whether you are a Warrior, a firefighter, a police officer, or EMS provider.

    Give me one good reason why I should die while providing a service as a Paramedic or firefighter? That is not what this is about.


    These protests are their Constitutionally guaranteed right, as vile and putrid as we find it. It is our Constitutionally guaranteed right to protest back and drown out their message.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    DaSharkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Posts
    4,713

    Default

    By the way, I love that picture Transplant. And lest we forget the picture of Sgt. Major (then First Sergeant) Brad Kasal, who has been awarded the Navy Cross for his actions in Fallujah.

    He entered a house where 2 of his Marines were down and he knew that the scumbags were inside waiting for Marines to rescue them. He entered with only his Beretta and was face to face with a scumbag. He left with several shards of shrapnel in his body and 7, I say again 7, AK-47 rounds lodged in his body. He also lost over half of his blood volume and is still recovering from his wounds.

    He killed the scumbags in the house too, and got his wounded Marines out. I'd follow him into battle without a thought. Because that is my job as a Warrior serving my country.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by DaSharkie; 05-18-2006 at 06:24 PM.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    backsteprescue123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie
    By the way, I love that picture Transplant. And lest we forget the picture of Sgt. Major (then First Sergeant) Brad Kasal, who has been awarded the Navy Cross for his actions in Fallujah.

    He entered a house where 2 of his Marines were down and he knew that the scumbags were inside waiting for Marines to rescue them. He entered with only his Beretta and was face to face with a scumbag. He left with several shards of shrapnel in his body and 7, I say again 7, AK-47 rounds lodged in his body. He also lost over half of his blood volume and is still recovering from his wounds.

    He killed the scumbags in the house too, and got his wounded Marines out. I'd follow him into battle without a thought. Because that is my job as a Warrior serving my country.

    one word to describe Sgt. Major Kasal..... H-E-R-O.

    I salute you.
    ------------------------------------
    These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
    ------------------------------------

  20. #20
    Forum Member
    FDNY101TRUCK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    9-0-8
    Posts
    789

    Default

    Basically I said give me a good reason that would make me willing to risk my life for.

    Thats nice to know just for that comment I wouldnt want you in the military...your a FF/EMT and you have the kind of mentality? I understand you were saying this to a recruitor but still I dont understand people that think like that, that by serving your counrty you are not willing to risk your life for someone else...
    NEVER FORGET!
    9/11/01

  21. #21
    Truckie
    SPFDRum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 1999
    Location
    St Paul, MN
    Posts
    2,516

    Default

    when i graduated high school 4 years ago I had taken the ASVAB test and got really high scores. I was looking into joining the navy. The attention you get when you show interest is on the level of straight up harrassment. Its definately easy to just sign up so they would leave you alone. I was damn close to joining then we started talking about Iraq. I asked the recruiter why we would be going there and they said to fight terrorism. I said, Iraq didn't attack us, then they kinda just gave the by the book answer that GW went on and on about, the whole access of evil etc.... Basically I said give me a good reason that would make me willing to risk my life for. They couldn't. Thank God i didn't sign up because I was a signature away from going in explosive ordinance disposal, the guys who are currently dealing with all of those IED and roadside bombs.
    Coward....
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
    Elevator Rescue Information

  22. #22
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    177

    Default

    Ok please dont attack me, i wasn't putting the troops down, ok, I lost two friends in Iraq, I have another over there now, and another leaving in June. I dont know where you got the idea that I think soldiers dont know what they are getting into. http://www.usatoday.com/printedition...over13.art.htm
    This is an article on PFC Kyle Gilbert. I went to class with this soldier and all he talked about was his dream of being a green beret. He is a Hero, he died fighting for our country. He did what I couldn't, and he was so proud when he signed up and the class I had with him looked up to him and I did as well. I wasn't ready to commit myself but I thank God that there are heroes like Kyle who are ready, willing, and able. "Great attitude. Leave EOD to the other guy, right? " This isn't my attitude at all. My attitude is that I wasn't ready to put myself in that position. If I wasn't going to college right now I can say pretty confidently that I would be somewhere in the world in some branch of the military. If that loss wasn't enough, next was a guy who I looked up to when I became a deputy, 1st Lt. Mark H. Dooley. Both of these guys are in my thoughts all the time, I shed tears for both of them. Both of these individuals make me proud to live in the United States because I know that there are so many more people just like them. Im not anti-war, its just I wasn't ready to commit myself, losing two people and knowing more that are going just scares me from wanting to go over. I guess ultimately I am scared to go to war. Call me a pussy or whatever, I will follow you into a burning building, I will back you up as a law enforcement officer, but I am not ready to go to war. My plan right now is to enlist in the Coast Guard when I get out, hopefully when I graduate from college I will be ready to commit myself, I am even considering going back into the navy to be a pilot.
    By the way, where do you get off calling me a coward, you dont know me so be quiet if you dont have anything constructive to say. So much for the civilized thread.
    Last edited by 38ffems; 05-18-2006 at 11:47 PM.

  23. #23
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    94

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 38ffems
    Ok please dont attack me........... Im not anti-war, its just I wasn't ready to commit myself, losing two people and knowing more that are going just scares me from wanting to go over. I guess ultimately I am scared to go to war. Call me a pussy or whatever, I will follow you into a burning building, I will back you up as a law enforcement officer, but I am not ready to go to war. My plan right now is to enlist in the Coast Guard when I get out, hopefully when I graduate from college I will be ready to commit myself........
    First, you need to realize that it takes a man to say they are scared. Being scared is part of it, whether you are a firefighter, deputy or soldier. You need to realize though that the fear of what can happen to you in war is (and should be) the same fear of what can happen to you in a house or during a felony hot stop-severe injury or death. You are not being honest with yourself about your fear when you say you are prepared to follow someone into a burning home but not serve in the military.That is because the danger to your body is the same. My guess is that you have yet to be truly scared on a fire or police call. Eventually, you will be. I'm talking about being utterly terrified. Not the nervous knot you get when the tones drop, but the liquid human fear the seeps into your gut when you know that bad things are getting ready to happen right in front of you. You will be presented with an opportunity to freeze up or do what's needed. And that means being able to function and complete the assigned task, not be a 'hero'. That's goes for sailors, cops and jakes alike; it makes no difference. You need to do a gut check and realize that there is more to your job as a firefighter and a deputy than what you may have already had to do. When was the last time you drew and fired your service weapon at a suspect who was trying to kill you? Yes, it's rare. But it is your job. Same as doing a primary search in a burning home that is on the verge of getting evac'd. That's rare. But it's your job. And something like those two things will occur if you stay on the job long enough. If you think you are capable of those two things, then you would probably able to function as a sailor utilizing his training and equipment to deactivate a live piece of ordnance.
    When I signed up for the Marines at 17, I had no idea if I would be able to function in combat, but you know what? I found out....and I have never doubted it since. You can, too.
    transplant
    Last edited by transplant; 05-19-2006 at 10:26 AM.

  24. #24
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    177

    Default

    I have read two of your post this afternoon, one on religion and the one posted just north of here. You seem to be one of the most humble and intelligent people I have met on these forums. I really never think I could die going to a fire call, I seem to think man I hope i dont get hurt. I have had a couple close calls but not the classic OH S**T moment. As a deputy, I work part-time and have only been a couple situations where I thought that I could be faced with some bad stuff very quickly. With that said I dont have not lost any firefighters close to me, and the only officer I know that was killed was Dooley and that was in Iraq, but I know 2 soldiers killed, and I dont even know if its that I am afraid of dying as much as I am afraid to put my family and friends through it. Really all i had to do was sign the dotted line and I was off. Even the recruiter was like "you need to make a gut check here because once it's done, it's done." Now that I think about it I used the political crap to cover the fact that I was scared. I dont know, to be honest I wish i had the guts to go over, I want to be there with my buddies trying my best to ensure that they will be ok. Anyways I am glad that there are people on these forums like yourself. I was really ready to simply never post on them again after being called a coward, its real easy to call somebody something when you have nothing but a computer screen in front of you.

  25. #25
    Forum Member
    DaSharkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Posts
    4,713

    Default

    To call him a coward is not appropriate, even before his most recent posts.

    You do need a gut check, and you are coming to grips with it which is honorable. Thinking before signing away 8 years of your life is necessary. Especially in war time. You have faced the death of men close to you from the horrors of war. I do not think that there are many men and women in the combat arms who look forward to war or combat.

    That being said, if you are ready to sign on for the Coast Guard, do not for one minute think that you will not be faced with the same potential for danger. Whether boarding another vessel, hunting down scumbag drug dealers, or deploying to the Middle East (a Coast Guard vessel has operated in and deployed in the Persian Gulf with every ARG or CBG that has gone into the Gulf.) Additionally the PSUs from the Coast Guard Reserve rotate in and out of Iraq, Kuwait, and other areas routinely and are augmented by other personnel.

    We all face a gut check. It is what you do with the fear that makes the difference. You cannot let fear overwhelm you or drive your life, regardless of your profession.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register