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  1. #141
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    No I agree with you! I just dislike when people bring religion into play with everything!
    No, no...they only do so when it's convenient.


  2. #142
    Forum Member rangercap's Avatar
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    I want to reply to this because I've been there.
    I got pregnant when I was twenty through my own poor choices. I didn't believe I would be a good mother in any way, shape, or form. What could I give that baby with no college education and wanting to be a firefighter? What if something happened and I couldn't care for the baby? But, then again, my older sister was unable to have children. Was it selfish of me to "get rid of" a baby when she wanted one so desperately? I had all these questions and went to various places to get answers. But no one could tell me what to do (except the abortion place, they had an answer). It was my choice they said. I asked people I trusted and they all said I had to decide for myself. The date was rapidly approaching when I could not have an abortion. And, as I stood in the kitchen one day, I felt something. I called my sisters and they came home immediately. My oldest sister, who had three children, placed her hand on my belly. I felt it again and she told me it was my baby. I didn't have to make that decision. My daughter made it for me. Because if she was big enough to move, she was big enough to stay put, in my opinion. I still didn't know if I would be a good mother to her or any of that. But it turned out I was and am a good mother to her. She saved me from a lot of crap going on in my life. And she's the greatest kid, if a bit mouthy at times (she's nine and a half going on sixteen. LOL!)
    When I became pregnant with our younger daughter, my husband and I were more than a bit nervous. Then a test came back "funny" as the midwife put it. We went for an ultrasound and found she had an umbilical vein varix. We were told about all these terrible problems our baby could have. He was in California at the time and I was in NH. We had many long talks on the phone about what to do. We decided to give her a chance to prove them all wrong. And we had some scary weeks as we waited for her to be born. For most babies, after 38 weeks is the safe time. For her, after 38 weeks was a countdown until she died. We kept talking to her in my belly. Telling her to hang out until she was ready to come. And she did come, four weeks late and a peanut compared to her sister. (She was 7lbs. 1 oz. at 4 wks over, sister was 9lbs. 5 and 1/2 oz at 4 wks over. LOL!) You know what? We took the information on the problems she might have and every single day I sat with her twice a day, teaching her to use her fingers and hands. And teaching her to talk. Now she's a happy, beautiful five year old princess. And, to think, if I had blindly followed the midwife's orders, I wouldn't have that voice chirping around the house ALL the time morning to night. LOL!
    My husband and I wanted a third child and began trying for the baby two years ago. We had repeated miscarriages, unbeknownst to us. Due to a genetic problem with us. Genetics had caused the UVV, we knew that. We didn't know we had had miscarriages until I went to the doctor for a physical and found out I was five weeks pregnant. I soon miscarried that baby as well and we were advised not to have more children because of the HUGE genetic problems we might face. So we agreed, no more children. On December 26 of last year, we found out I was pregnant. EVERYONE told us to abort. Family, friends, everyone. Very few told us to hold on. We held on and in August I had our beautiful son. Who is perfectly healthy and happy and a little prince.
    Would I ever have an abortion? I say no. Maybe if a child resulted from rape then I would. I can't say that. However, I have a friend who had an abortion when she was in her late teens. She was heavily into the whole drug scene and would have been a horrible mother. I feel that was the right choice for that child and for her. Because when she finally had a child, though not under perfect circumstances, she was and is a wonderful mother. And she grieves for that first baby every single day.
    I know another girl who would sleep with every guy who was willing and then, upon becoming pregnant, go have an abortion. We're talking once or twice a year. That is wrong, in my opinion. Go buy some condoms, go on the pill, whatever. But that, to me, shows a complete lack of respect for human life. She has no remorse for the "inconveniences" she "dealt with" and I have no respect for her.
    I believe a child is better off with the higher power if the mother isn't going to be a good mother or is going to hurt their baby. Hear me out here, okay? My mother didn't want me. My older brother and sisters raised me. If I even came in her line of sight, I got beat. And we're talking beat. Sticks of wood for the woodstove, buckle end of belts, chairs, metal pipes. While she told me she wished I was never born. That not only hurt me in ways I can't even begin to describe, but it hurt my siblings. My brother, who would find me beaten in a closet. My sister who watched as my brother went into the river to pull me out after my mother tried to drown me. We're talking springtime river here, people. I can remember it like it was yesterday. I was four and I'm thirty now. And I hate the water. My brother still tells me to be careful. If my hubby and I take the kids to the beach, I have to call my brother and sister to let them know I'm okay. Because my mother had a child she never wanted. That takes some major therapy to deal with. You either self medicate or come to terms with it. I was lucky. I was smart enough to understand what the therapist was saying. And I can deal with it. But it doesn't go away. To feel nothing for your mother is a crappy deal, y'all. How many babies die because someone should not have been a mother? I was lucky. I had my siblings to protect me. There are a lot of children who have no safety.
    On the other hand with a mother who never wanted a child. My niece's fiancee had an affair with her best friend, resulting in a child. At six weeks of age, the girl shook the baby. Broken bones, brain swelling, the whole nine yards. None of us thought the little boy would make it. She was banned from seeing him and my niece and her fiancee tended that little boy as their own. I watched this girl, my niece, turn into a young woman over that two and a half years. And I watched her break when he died in his daddy's arms a few months shy of his third birthday. Should he have been aborted because his mother wasn't going to love him and cherish him? No, I don't think so. Because he brought so much love and was loved so deeply while he was here. Yes, there was tremendous pain when he passed but what he left behind is so much more powerful.

    I guess my point here is there is nothing cut and dry about abortion. Sometimes it is for the best. As for adoption, it is a viable option. My sister ended up adopting a baby boy from Korea and he's a peach. Plays hockey and baseball and is just the all-American kid! LOL!

    As for the article in the first post, that is ridiculous. No one is perfect. If you want the perfect child, go buy a flappin doll baby. They're quiet, never crap their pants at inappropriate times, and you don't even have to feed them! There is nothing perfect about human beings. Ever. But, if you ask me, all kids are perfect. Because they are themselves and to heck with what anyone else thinks about it! LOL!

    These are just my experiences and opinions. If people want to jump on them, whatever. But, we are all constantly learning from each other. And I can respect people being pro-life. I can respect people being pro-choice. But I think that's what it all comes down to, respecting each other and respecting the fact that people have different opinions.

  3. #143
    Forum Member rangercap's Avatar
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    I had somehow missed the story about that Jessica girl and her baby. That breaks my heart. I remember the way my son looked at me when he was first born. That look of absolute trust that I would keep him safe. The voice he had known from when he could hear, months, was his safety. And how it felt like a part of me was gone when he was just with a nurse so I could shower.
    Have dinner without him? I couldn't sleep without my hand in his bassinet in my room. I made them pull my IV as soon as I realized it was in the way of caring for him. Leave him for any amount of time? That was out of the question. It just seems so cold of this girl to behave this way. The stab him? Was she that sheltered? I knew at thirteen that a baby comes out and you're supposed to put a diaper on and feed it! And I knew nothing about babies. Had to be shown how to diaper my first kid! Oh, that p***** me off to no end! Poor, poor little love never had a chance.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by rangercap View Post
    But, we are all constantly learning from each other. And I can respect people being pro-life. I can respect people being pro-choice. But I think that's what it all comes down to, respecting each other and respecting the fact that people have different opinions.
    amen.
    ---------------------
    moreover: pro-choice is about a woman's RIGHT to chose.

  5. #145
    MembersZone Subscriber RoughRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Is this the same "god" that killed every firstborn in Egypt in one night if people didn't splash blood on their houses?

    Iím not going to waste my time discussing the Christian faith with you. Its sounds like you have very little working knowledge on the subject.

    I do wish you a Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to you and yours.
    Last edited by RoughRider; 12-20-2006 at 12:24 PM.
    Fortune does not change men; it unmasks them.

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  6. #146
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    rangercap, I just want to say to you, thankyou. You got it right, little sister. May you and your family enjoy a great Christmas or whatever you choose to celebrate during this season.

  7. #147
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoughRider View Post
    Iím not going to waste my time discussing the Christian faith with you. Its sounds like you have very little working knowledge on the subject.

    I do wish you a Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to you and yours.
    Eh. He has said that his views are unchangeable (how open minded of him) so you are right to not discuss the matter with him.

    He will only end up insulting you personally, as well as everyone else that has professed their religions beliefs - Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, or whatever.

    Live your life. The overall lesson is to live your life as you wish to live it - while not endangering anyone else or caring what they think. It is your life, not theirs.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleman View Post
    Is this the same "god" that killed every firstborn in Egypt in one night if people didn't splash blood on their houses?

    Are you reffering to "Exodus 12 - The Passover"? Delivering Israel from Bondage?

    Its not as grim as you make it sound:

    "Then they must take some of the blood(from a lamb) and put it on the wood pieces at the sides and the tops of the door of each house were they will eat it.".

    "It is the time the lord will pass over - for I will go through the land of Egypt that night and I will kill all the first born in the land of egypt both man and and animal. I will punish all the gods of Egypt - I am the lord. But the blood of will mark for you the houses where you live. When I see the blood I will pass over you. And no trouble will come upon you to destroy you when I punish the land of Egypt.".

    Once again either Nozz is ignorant of what he is quoting or he just plain out twists things to fit his agenda.

    Weird........
    Warm Regards,
    Shawn Stoner
    EMT-B

  9. #149
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    I don't know SStoner, still sounds pretty grim to me.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  10. #150
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    >Once again either Nozz is ignorant of what he is quoting or he just plain out
    >twists things to fit his agenda.

    Probably. Then do a lot of so-called "Christian" churches that thump on old testament stories discounting the transformation of the new testament -- it's pretty odd to run up the flag pole as tenants of faith many of the stories of the old testament when Jesus' birth and death fundamentally changed the core of the narrative from a vengeful God to a more mature, forgiving God.

  11. #151
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
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    .....deleted.....

    point made.
    Last edited by jasper45; 01-01-2007 at 03:21 PM.

  12. #152
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmatian190 View Post
    >Once again either Nozz is ignorant of what he is quoting or he just plain out
    >twists things to fit his agenda.

    Probably. Then do a lot of so-called "Christian" churches that thump on old testament stories discounting the transformation of the new testament -- it's pretty odd to run up the flag pole as tenants of faith many of the stories of the old testament when Jesus' birth and death fundamentally changed the core of the narrative from a vengeful God to a more mature, forgiving God.
    But too many churches discount the Old Testament simply because of the New Testament.

    God was not always vengeful in the Old. And much of the New are descriptions of how to worship and act as a Christian - a point lost on many.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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