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  1. #21
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    Does the metz truck meet NFPA for a aerial platform or a quint?


  2. #22
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    Default uh oh

    ive seen this debate raging before. it is said that it is partially quint and ladder qualified...but in one of the other related threads, somone put out a list off things that werent compliant. im not sure. they say it is so....

  3. #23
    MembersZone Subscriber mohican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101
    Once again, Thomas, your feeble fingers have failed you. Try again! How's that Outback looking to you now? Metz in the US have been mounted on a variety of chassis.PFD,before you knock a Metz on a Spartan,mebbe you ought to try one.Compared to a regular ladder,you could park this one in a two car garage(well,not quite). .
    TC, I did not knock them for compartmentation or operatonal ability

    I was offereing an opinion that on the spartan or hme chassis, the rig ends up being much longer than it needs to be. At least on paper. Haven't seen one. at the selling price, couldn't ethically demo something so far out of our ballpark.

    The small mercedes quint seemed to be a very well thought out package - like it was optimized over time and went throught it's logical revisions. It may just be appearance, but the impression I got from drawing review was that they just stuck the ladder on the spartan or hme chassis. It didn't look as "integrated"

    from a design standpoint, I think if it was put on an SFO chassis, especially if they used a rear mount pump, that it could be almost as compact as the mercedes unit. Our new rescue engine is on an HME SFO chassis and I'm sold on it.

  4. #24
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    Default Metz is NFPA Compliant

    Quote Originally Posted by lthardy410
    Does the metz truck meet NFPA for a aerial platform or a quint?
    Metz ladder trucks are sold as aerial devices with a rescue basket. They are NFPA compliant NFPA 1901 under Aerial Devices. Tip load for Aerial Devices is 250 lbs. The Metz is 600Lbs. Some want to consider Metz an elevated platform but the rescue basket is removable in seconds and the functions as a straight stick. A quint must have a minimum 1000 GPM pump and water tank capacity of 300. Our Metz has a Hale MPB 1000 Rearmount and 425 gallons of water. Metz held the first patent on a quint in 1912. Our citzen study committe hired a consultant to advise them on the need to replace our 1983 Thibualt and which manufacture could meet our needs. Individuals of this 11 member study committee went to the New England Chiefs Fire Expo in 2004 and talked to various factory reps. Responses from most of the Reps was not about the features for their trucks but how Metz was not NFPA Compliant.Our consultant after research advised the committee that Metz was NFPA Compliant. Only myself and my deputy served on the study committe. 6 members were opposed to the town replacing our old ladder in the beginning. After 9 months of study we got a unanimous recommendation to replace our existing truck and buy a Metz 105 Aerial.
    We received our new truck about a month ago. I have enclosed 3 pics. Want more details email me.
    Comgradulations LT Hardy on your successful vote.
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  5. #25
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    is that a 4x4 chassis? love the paint.

  6. #26
    MembersZone Subscriber npfd801's Avatar
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    CVChief -

    Are you willing to send larger versions of those photos to me via e-mail? I'd love to look at the setup in better detail.

    Shoot me a PM if you wouldn't mind doing so and I'll give you my e-mail.

    I can't get enough of rigs that are designed "out of the box."

  7. #27
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    i would be interested in the pictures too. do you have drawings?

  8. #28
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    Default Cv Metz

    Quote Originally Posted by skipatrol8
    i would be interested in the pictures too. do you have drawings?
    Send me a private meesage with your email.
    Last edited by cvchief69; 07-12-2006 at 07:29 PM.

  9. #29
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    cvchief - GREAT unit you have there. I got to see it at the NE Chief's show - it was, without a doubt, the most unique rig there. That, in my opinion, is a really neat use of a Metz. I think that your basic design could go a long way with a lot of rural departments. Really, really neat. The four wheel drive with the incredibly short wheelbase must get it places that any other 100' aerial (or 75', for that matter) couldn't get anywhere close to! All with a decent pump, tank, and foam system, IIRC?

    For those who can't get individual emails, here's a shot from NE Fire News:
    http://www.nefirenews.org/ne/CarrabassertValleyMEL1.jpg
    Last edited by BlitzfireSolo; 09-03-2006 at 05:27 PM. Reason: Typo

  10. #30
    Forum Member Chauffeur6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801
    Quote Originally Posted by tomwnh
    And to my knowledge none have been done on Spartans so far, only HME's.
    I actually know of at least two on Spartan chassis. They aren't my photos, so I can't post them, but one went to a Spring Valley, NY
    Correct, their truck is a 2002 Spartan Gladiator chassis, General Safety body and Metz aerial device. It might be worth noting that their pumper is a 1996 Spartan chassis with a (true, pre-E-One) Saulsbury body, hence their interest in keeping the same make chassis. One thing I love about their truck is how small it is, both in wheelbase, overall length and travel height. It's actually smaller than many of the pumpers in our county.


  11. #31
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    now thats not a bad looking Metz !!!
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  12. #32
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    For thoes who say the Metz is not NFPA compliante, what are there reasons?

  13. #33
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    Default Respose to Metz again

    Ok I have posted this once before but here it is again:

    Ok To the question about the Metz being NFPA compliant heres the list (its kinda lengthy but please read):

    1) I show that the Metz has a "PAYLOAD CAPACITY" of 600 pounds. NFPA has specific terms that they use in rating an aerial. Payload is not one of the terms. In Section 18-8.1 NFPA says that the Rated Capacity of the elevating platform shall be a minimum of 750 pounds (dry). 500 pounds when flowing water. For an aerial the minimum is 500 pounds. All ratings must be in increments of 250 pounds. The Metz spec that I have says that it will carry three people or 600 pounds at the tip. Per NFPA a firefighter weighs 250 pounds. This is only 2 people. In a discussion with a Metz engineer at a show in Massachusetts on June 24th of this year, he said that the aerial is rated for 2 people with the platform and 3 people without the platform.

    2) Load chart - The load chart that was displayed on the Metz aerial at the show in Massachusetts on 6/24/02, does not show any allowable loads below 30 degrees. This needs to be checked. NFPA 18-3.2 states that the aerial must be able to support a minimum of 250 pounds at the outermost rung of the outermost fly section with the ladder at full extension at 0 degrees of elevation while flowing water in any position that the monitor can be placed. The norm in the US for an aerial is 500 pounds. If this is considered a platform then the minimum is 750 pounds dry and 500 wet. Have them provide you with a copy of the load chart. Any other manufacturer will do this. Without a load chart it is difficult to tell what you are buying.

    3) NFPA 18-3.3 says that rating must be in increments of 250 pounds and shall be in addition to any fire fighting equipment mounted on the ladder. Do they have an allowance for an ax and pike pole at the tip beyond the rated capacity?

    4) Tip controls - If the unit is considered an aerial and not a platform (which is their load ratings ) then the controls at the tip have maximum speeds at which they can operate the aerial. This is for safety reasons to keep the operator out of trouble. These speeds are outlined in 18-5.4. The section also requires that a switch at the base control pedestal must be depressed at all times that the operator at the tip is moving the ladder. These requirements are not applied to a platform but this unit does not meet the minimum requirements for a platform.

    5) Water delivery system - If the aerial has a permanent water delivery system (prepiped waterway) it must be capable of delivering 1000 gpm (section 18-6.1). I have seen multiple specs on the Metz and I am not sure of what they can deliver. This would be a good question. It might also be a good idea to ask them to demonstrate this. It may flow 1000 gpm but I am not sure.

    6) NFPA 18-2.1 and 18-2.11 say that the aerial, together with the steps and platforms on the apparatus body must provide a continuous egress to the ground at any degree of elevation. Rotate the Metz 90 degrees to the side of the truck (as though you were parked in front of the fire building) and try to get on or off the ladder. This is a major safety issue in NFPA. If you cannot do this you cannot perform a rescue with this aerial without moving the aerial with people on the ladder. If you need to evacuate a lot of people it will be a slow process with this ladder.

    7) The Metz has infinitely variable jacking which allows you to set up the jacks as far as possible and then it calculates your operating envelop. This is a nice feature. The only problem with this is that when you rotate the ladder over the left side of the body the base of the ladder swings out of the right side by as much as 10 feet. You should measure this to confirm my number. If you need 10 feet on each side of the truck for the swing, this limits the ability to fully utilize the variable jacking. Your current aerials can be operated without any swing over the opposite side of the body.

    8) The Metz has the ability to set up on grades and has a self-leveling turntable. These are nice features. Most other aerials sold in the US can be set up and operated fully on about a 6 degree (12 percent) hill. This is probably bigger than any hill that exists in your Township. So you would probably never benefit from this feature.

    9) Look at the handrail heights and widths on the fly section. Is it wide enough to climb in gear carrying a saw. Try it and see. Are the handrails high enough to give a feeling of comfort?

    10) The Metz specs talk about the ability to "bridge" by supporting the tip. They then say that you can put up to 12 people on the ladder. What does this mean? How many can be on the ladder in the unsupported condition. The load chart is required to show this if the aerial is rated to do this. (18-3.4) Get a copy of the load chart.

    11) Rung Spacing- One Metz spec says that the rungs must be spaced a maximum of 14 inches. Another Metz specs says that they are spaced at 12". NFPA allows only one rung spacing - 14". Not a max or a minimum but 14" (18-2.5) Measure the Metz. This is critical because if you have multiple ladders with different rung spacing or other departments climb your aerial at a mutual aid or training situation, this difference makes it hard to climb. If you are used to climbing a 14" spacing and then try to climb a 12" spacing it is very difficult. When it is dark and icy and you are trying to carry a victim down the ladder this becomes even more critical. Who will be liable if someone falls from a non-compliant ladder and is killed. Will it be the chief?

    12) NFPA 18-20.1 requires that the ladder be designed to support 2 times the weight of the device (the dead load) and 2 times the weight of the rated load (people and equipment or live load). Do they design and test to this?

  14. #34
    Forum Member canuck1's Avatar
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    Question What version

    Quote Originally Posted by jake2415
    Ok I have posted this once before but here it is again..............

    etc. etc. etc.
    Jake, what version of NFPA are you referring to? My version (NFPA 1901, 2003 Edition) differs from yours.

    For example - you mentioned that NFPA doesn't site a max or min. on ladder rung spacing. Section 20.2.5 actually states: The ladder rungs shall be equally spaced on a maximum 14in. (350mm) centers and minimum 11.75 in. (300mm) centers and shall have skid resistant surface or covering.

    Are you using an old book????

  15. #35
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    I also tried referencing the sections that Jake quoted and they seem to be incorrect. It must be an old version. I think there was quite a few changes in the 2003 version.

  16. #36
    MembersZone Subscriber mohican's Avatar
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    CVCHIEF - how is the rig working out

    It looks like you have an HME SFO chassis?

    Is there enough compartmentation for your needs?

    nice looking rig

    BTW - Metz, and Rosenbauer cert the metz ladders sold stateside as meeting NFPA requirements

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