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Thread: metz

  1. #1
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    Default metz

    it seems like everytime you see a metz ladder/tower(?), it has a body by general/rosenbauer. in that body there is a huge waste of compartment space. why is there such a big space between the areial unit and the body. a tank of 180gal. doesnt do much.

    in an other note...can you compare a bronto with the pierce sky arm. does the sky arm really work as advertised?


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    [QUOTE=skipatrol8]it seems like everytime you see a metz ladder/tower(?), it has a body by general/rosenbauer. in that body there is a huge waste of compartment space. why is there such a big space between the areial unit and the body. a tank of 180gal. doesnt do much.

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Rosenbauer is the dealer for Metz in North America. The reason for the lack of compartment space is that the Metz can operate well below grade and requires the room that would normally be occupied with cabinets for the ladder to rotate at such a negative angle.
    Sorry I couldn't answer everything.

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    The huge open area between the ladder and body has nothing to do with who manufactured the body. Take a look at the pedestal (spelling?) of the Metz aerial and visualize the ladder rotated 180 degrees to the rear... that open space is now taken up by the pedestal. I suppose you could build a Metz with compartments in that space, you just couldn't have full rotation (for those of you who are going to respond to that last sentence as if I was serious... please don't)
    Last edited by Ladder27; 05-31-2006 at 12:51 AM.

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    MembersZone Subscriber npfd801's Avatar
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    Rosenbauer is in fact the sole distributor of the Metz product in the U.S. and their General division is indeed the folks that build the bodies on the Metz units sold here in the states.

    The design of the turntable (the fact that it levels itself and its size) limits how much compartment space is available on the rig. The torque box also limits some aspects of the body design as well.

    As been said on here previously, the Metz product comes with some trade-offs that users have determined are worth accepting to have some of the functionality of the Metz.

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    MembersZone Subscriber npfd801's Avatar
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    Also - comparing the SkyArm and the Bronto - they're two very different animals.

    The SkyArm is actually a product designed by a company other than Pierce - which I believe was Nova Quintech, if I recall correctly. Essentially you have a tower ladder that can bend at the last fly to allow easier access over parapets and such. I believe the basket also pivots to either side. Pierce essentially bought the rights to produce this product after NQ went under, I believe.

    The Bronto is an articulating arm on a telescoping boom. The ladder is simply there as an egress, I would assume, much like the ladders on Aerialscopes.
    Bronto has been around for a while, and a few were built on Pierce chassis prior to E-One forming a relationship with Bronto.

    I would suspect both offer distinct advantages over the other for one thing or another. Interestingly enough, both specific products have suffered well documented catastrophic failures. The Bronto was while it was being tested at a department in Canada, and the SkyArm failed during a fire in the southeastern U.S. if I'm not mistaken. No one was killed, and in the defense of both E-One and Pierce, both units were produced prior to these companies taking over ownership/production/distribution of these units. Someone here is bound to be more knowledgable than I am on these units.

    Like everything in the fire service, each one of the tools will do something well that another doesn't, so it's up to you to decide what's the most important feature of whatever aerial you're going to buy.

    If I've made incorrect statements about either of the two products mentioned above - please correct me, and I'll fix my post.
    Last edited by npfd801; 05-31-2006 at 01:15 AM.

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    you are right...thats the history behind the sky arm. of course i was just curious, a town of 6000 would never get the $$$$$$$$$$$ to buy one. we settled for a 1993 mack MR/ALF straight stick. has anyone actuall used the "escape ladder" on a scope or bronto?

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    I climbed up (don't ask) the escape ladder on an older Sutphen that didn't have side rails once. I can't say I particularly cared for it. I don't plan on doing it again, either.

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    Rosenbauer is in fact the sole distributor of the Metz product in the U.S. and their General division is indeed the folks that build the bodies on the Metz units sold here in the states.
    Actually, you maybe wrong on that. VTEC located in Williamstown Vermont is now building aerials using Metz product. They recently built their first one and sold it to a community in Maine. Not sure if they went thru Rosenbauer or not, will try and do some checking tommorow.

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    Default Further Info

    - All good info on these products. In regard to VTEC...they were the "sublet" body builder as "Carrabassett" (easy-for-me-to-say!) Maine required a POLY body (not offered by General or Central). All Metz products do in fact get handled by the RBA-Group...(accurately reported previously / nice work)

    - I've spent quality time on the side-mounted access ladder on the Bronto's...they have over 12" high handrails and are NFPA compliant for multiple people moving over the ladder - not too bad...yet they do not have any K-Bracing, which we are all used to. (not required as the strength is in the booms) - that "open" feeling leaves some Jakes a tad queasy...

    - Note how the Sky-Arm product seems to be fading away...I understand the pricing is well over the Bronto now; maybe a sign that orders aren't really craved for them ? ~ I think the last new delivery I heard of was well back in 2005. (like others, I could be wrong on that)

    OD.

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    I'm glad to see the answer why the VTEC unit was built by someone other than General. There is also some question with the folks I spoke with at Rosenbauer about the chassis this unit is on, is it something unique?

    Rosenbauer does indeed own Metz now - globally, and here in the states the only authorized seller is indeed Rosenbauer America. Someone at Metz USA very likely lobbied hard to allow VTEC to build the body on the rig, since Rosenbauer likely didn't want to do the poly body.

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    Forum Member Res343cue's Avatar
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    Removed.
    Last edited by Res343cue; 06-06-2006 at 09:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

    I A C O J
    FTM-PTB


    Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

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    Default Vtec

    does vtec have a website? they make cape cod style brush breakers too?

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    Smile

    I have heard alot of good things about Vtec from the guys in Orwell who have one of their pumpers. I have heard good things from guys in Castleton that have one of their quick attacks. I have heard both sides from a couple of other towns. Seems like the same ole story you get with any company, some love them, some hate them. Guess your one of the haters Res343cue.

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    http://www.metz-apparatus.com/contact.html

    doesn't show rosenbauers doing the US marketing for metz

    With Rosenbauer owning RK, do they need to market the "niche" metz ariels in the US?

    metz has a nifty little quint on a crew cab benz chassis - for our tight spots it would work great - except you can't get it in the US so they set it on a Spartan or HME chassis - nothing bad about that but it ends up bigger than it needs to be. Maybe if they put it on a SFO chassis with the rear mount pump..... by the time a Spartan or HME chassis is sent to Germany and back you are looking at 700,000 or 750,000. you can get a refurbed 'Scope for a lot less than that.......

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    As stated above Rosenbauer does own Mezt as well as Central States, General Safety and RK in the US. The line is marketed through Rosenbauer dealers for the most partand a few other select dealers do have it available. Metx has their own sales people in this country, Stephen who is back in Germany but does fly back on a regular basis and Tony from PA. VTEC was allowed to sell ONE in Maine to a customer that has other VTEC products. It was with a poly body. All other Metz units sold in the US have Genereal bodies on them. And to my knowledge none have been done on Spartans so far, only HME's. The chief in that Miane department also does some selling for VTEC.

    If I do this right there should be a photo of the VTEC Metz here.

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    Once again, Thomas, your feeble fingers have failed you. Try again! How's that Outback looking to you now? Metz in the US have been mounted on a variety of chassis.PFD,before you knock a Metz on a Spartan,mebbe you ought to try one.Compared to a regular ladder,you could park this one in a two car garage(well,not quite).One needs to really look at a Metz before you pass judgements on the compartments;there is MORE room than you think albeit less than some other "trucks".A most interesting device,not for everyone but a real nice rig that fits a niche in a lot of communities. Vtec built the body for Carrabassett valley for the "city"and sublet as indicated by Rosenbauer.Now again,a poly body isn't for everyone but CV runs them and likes them.No,I DO NOT work for Metz but I find them to be an interesting machine and I regard Tony and Stephen as close friends,and ones who know their product intimately. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomwnh
    And to my knowledge none have been done on Spartans so far, only HME's.
    I actually know of at least two on Spartan chassis. They aren't my photos, so I can't post them, but one went to a Spring Valley, NY, and another to "Town Line," wherever that may be.

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    Forum Member Res343cue's Avatar
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    NPFD - Get that PM I sent you?
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

    I A C O J
    FTM-PTB


    Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

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    Default Rosenbauer and RK

    I may be incorrect, but I do believe that R & K is only supported by Rosenbauer. I do think that it is a 49/51 split with Rosenbauer providing financial support and possibly some engineering assistance.
    Fyrtrks

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    We did a large scale extrication operation in the Palisades last spring.Spring Valley had the Metz there along with a large selection of other fine equipment from the surrounding area.A great bunch to work with,I met up with some of the Spring Valley crew later in the year at Springfield.And yes,it is a Spartan. T.C.

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