1. #1
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    Default Vol. response times / goals

    What are your Vol. Dept's response time & goals for;

    1) Getting an engine - Driver only on the road.
    2) Getting an engine - Full crew on the road.
    3) Getting a full assignment on the road (Say 3 Eng & 1T).
    4) Extricating 1 patient within the Golden Hour.
    5) Getting 1st Water on the fire.
    6) Establishing a viable water supply of 750 gpm or more.

    Please list any other important ones I've missed

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    1) Getting an engine - Driver only on the road.
    * We never roll with driver only

    2) Getting an engine - Full crew on the road.
    * 3 minutes from dispatch

    3) Getting a full assignment on the road (Say 3 Eng & 1T).
    * 5 minutes from dispatch

    4) Extricating 1 patient within the Golden Hour.
    * Tough one. Simple door pop, 10 minutes from dispatch. Squashed by train, could be 1 hour.

    5) Getting 1st Water on the fire.
    * 6.5 minutes from dispatch (3 for on the road, 1 to get there (small town) 1 for hydrant connection and lay line, 1.5 to size up, pull line, get to fire.)

    6) Establishing a viable water supply of 750 gpm or more.
    * 5 minutes from dispatch.


    Do we always meet these goals? No. Sometimes we're a little slower, sometimes we're a little faster. Life goes on.

    7) Primary Search started by Truck company
    * 4.5 minutes (3 for on the road, 1 to get there (small town) .5 for size up and entry)
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    #'s are almost identical to Bones. Give or take a minute or 2.

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    I'll give er a shot:

    1)Same as bones...We never go driver only..Unless its a huge fire and we need a tanker from the hall..

    2)Between 5-7 minutes..Depending on the time of day...How many of our shift workers etc...Traffic

    3)I'd say 5-10 Minutes

    4)Probably 15-20 Minutes

    5)Good Question...As quick as possible???
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    Can't tell you what out "goals" are because sadly we don't have any - our "Goal" is to respond as quickly and as safely as possible each and every time.

    I can however tell you our actual performance numbers (These are Average numbers for all calls Jan-Apr)

    1) Getting an engine - Driver only on the road.
    2) Getting an engine - Full crew on the road.
    3.8 Minute "Reaction Time" - Time from tone till first truck rolls
    9.6 Minute "Response Time" - Time from truck leaving station till arrives on scene.

    3) Getting a full assignment on the road (Say 3 Eng & 1T).
    No data available - however type of call dictates what units are a full response. Simple 1 unit call see above - Mutual Aid to working fire may take as long as 8-10 minutes before the last truck leaves the station.

    4) Extricating 1 patient within the Golden Hour.
    No data available - As said already it will vary with severity of incident.

    5) Getting 1st Water on the fire.
    No data available (yet) - Depends on # of crew already on scene and/or on apparatus - typically w/in 1 minute w/ tank water for a *defensive* knock-down & 2-3 for a *full blown* interior stretch to the seat of the fire.

    6) Establishing a viable water supply of 750 gpm or more.
    We should be so lucky

    Dept. Make-up
    All Volunteer - 16 members - 99.5% rural (Non Hydranted)
    Cover 79.8 Sq Miles of the county - most of which is along the foothills of the Blue ridge Mountains.

    Based on the fact that Fire Dept's sprung up where the population concentration was - the majority of our district is now west of our station thus most members usually are farther from the station than the location of the call.

    Therefore - we may only roll a D/O or we may have a "full crew" (All our rigs are conventional so a D/O & 2 FF's are a max anyway) based on where the call is and what members are available at that time.
    Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
    Stephen
    FF/Paramedic
    Instructor

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    Other item to consider with volunteer fire companies is the different type of averages.

    With a staffed station -- career, or places like PG County, you can say "1 minute turnout" and know that's a pretty good figure.

    Does saying 4 minute turnout average tell the whole story if the calls break down as 2 in 1 minute 'cause it was meeting night or people where at the station, 6 in 3 to 4 minutes just from average everday responses, and a couple that took 7 minutes 'cause it was daytime, just no one near the station, etc.

    Having an average of 3 to 4 minutes isn't bad. But sure sucks if your house is on fire at 11am on Tuesday when it'll take 7 minutes to muster up 3 guys.

    It's that type of statistic that is easy to bury if you're just looking at broad averages.

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    1) Getting an engine - Driver only on the road.
    Drive only responses are rare in my department, unless we're somewhere and need a specific piece of apparatus(like a tanker or the rescue while the engine's out with a crew) and already have guys on scene. It's not banned by our rules, it just doesn't happen due to volunteer and pair availability.

    2) Getting an engine - Full crew on the road.
    In the daytime, we have 1 minute to roll through the bay doors. Generally, by the time our driver's get to their lockers, put on turnout pants, put their coat in the truck and belt themselves in, if you're not on the truck or in the process of mounting it, you're getting left. I've left guys standing at the back of the station coughing from the diesel exhaust as we left, and I'll do it again. You don't have time to play around during emergencies.

    On volunteer-only coverage times, it varies. But I can say that our response time is, on average, just at or above 6 minutes by a couple of seconds. That's from activation to size-up on scene in a 23 square mile first due area.

    3) Getting a full assignment on the road (Say 3 Eng & 1T).

    Our full assignment is 2 engines, a rescue, and support, depending on location that support unit may be a tanker or another rescue. Generally, we tend to roll out simultaneously with everything, or in rapid succession.


    4) Extricating 1 patient within the Golden Hour.

    Someone above mentioned the mechanism of injury and entrapment. I have to agree. Let's say for a 'standard' entrapment, which our standard operation guidelines has as roof removal, total door removal and dash lift. Our goal would be 10-15 minutes from on scene. I can say though that I've worked hour-plus long entrapments before, all depends.


    5) Getting 1st Water on the fire.
    2-3 minutes after arrival for full blown interior attack. To hit it with the step-gun or the stang, around a minute or so.

    6) Establishing a viable water supply of 750 gpm or more.

    It better be happening as soon as the first engine is arriving on scene. If you have a working fire, someone better be laying in the 5" or a dropping the dump tank as soon as they get there, otherwise the chief's going to go off.
    "Captain 1 to control, retone this as a structure and notify the fire chief...."

    Safety is no accident.

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    Our dept. has a goal to have the first apparatus onscene within 8 minutes of the dispatch.

    I am wondering what type of apparatus response other poc depts. use for various types of alarms with in their jurisdictions. Here in our jurisdiction we send the following:

    EMS: 1 rescue/squad

    MVA: 1 rescue/squad
    1 engine

    Brush fires: 1 brush truck
    1 engine

    Structures: 1 engine
    2 pumper/tankers
    1 rescue/squad

    Please send me a breakdown of how your dept. responds to various types of incidents. We are currently revamping our procedure, evaluating the need for a second engine at all structures. We are a rural dept. with 3 stations coving 144 sq/miles. Let me know what you think. trailfreek@msn.com

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    No driver only unless he's an EMT and its EMS assist.

    I'd say 90% of the time we roll out of at least one of the stations within 3 minutes of dispatch. Less if a duty crew is on. This weekend, we've been seeing 5-7 minute delays between dispatch and rolling.(note, most of the time this is with anywhere between 3 and 6 guys on the apparatus)

    Getting to the scene? We probably have a two minute max transit time most of the time. I'll get my stopwatch out next time.

    full assignment on the road? we can usually bang out 2 engines, the truck and the rescue pretty quickly, i'd say 8-12 minutes depending on the call. Its the last two engines that take a little more time to get rolling.

    and the other ones? i have no clue.

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    Ok here goes,

    1) Getting an engine - Driver only on the road.
    Will not roll with driver only unless told to do so by an officer on scene. (11 years with department and never head of it happening)

    2) Getting an engine - Full crew on the road.
    3 minns during the day, 5 minns during the late night hours.

    3) Getting a full assignment on the road (Say 3 Eng & 1T).
    5 minns

    4) Extricating 1 patient within the Golden Hour.
    Only a good sixe-up will determine if how fast this can happen.

    5) Getting 1st Water on the fire.
    within 10 minns of dispatch (if all goes well)

    6) Establishing a viable water supply of 750 gpm or more.
    within 8-10 minns of dispatch.

    Responses for alarms are as follows (4 man crews before trucks can roll)

    Structure fires = 3 Engines, Tower, Rescue
    Comm. AFA = 2 Engines, and Tower
    Resid. AFA = 1 Engine and Tower
    Gas in Structure = Engine, Tower, Rescue
    MVA = Engine and Rescue
    You need only two tools: WD-40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn't, use the duct tape.

  11. #11
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    In our small volley hall with no staff in-quarters we don't get too specific, but expect daytime responses (on-scene time) to be under 8 minutes from dispatch anywhere in our district, and nightime responses to be under 10 minutes.

    We also only started recording times recently, but so far we are much faster than that, and most daytime responses are less then 5 minutes from dispatch, and nighttime is 7 or 8.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

    IACOJ

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    Montgomery County DFRS Dispatch Protocols state_

    There is a response check at 1 min
    The unit is replace at 3 min.
    And the unit is Failed at 5 min.

    But most if not all of their vollies have duty shifts or live in....I think
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    These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by N2DFire
    Can't tell you what out "goals" are because sadly we don't have any - our "Goal" is to respond as quickly and as safely as possible each and every time.
    I agree with ND2Fire....we are pretty much the same way but the main reason is we cover some where around 280 square miles of unincorporated area 90% of which is non hydranted and we are 100% volly. we have 7 stations placed around the area each station has 1 engine 1 tanker and 1 brush truck.

    for instance I am about 4 minutes to my station depending on traffic....I am normally the 3 or 4 th guy there and we never roll an engine with 1 person....once we get a crew there (minimum of 2 on our 5 man truck) we roll....but then we may still be another 10 to maybe 20 minutes to the location just depending on where it is.

    having goals is great but alot depends on your logistics....and as said above the best "goal" to have is getting there as quickly and safetly as possible....it makes you wonder how many wrecks that you often see on the front page here on firehouse were caused because of trying to meet "goals"


    food for thought

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    1) Getting an engine - Driver only on the road.
    Doesn't happen here unless the chief special requests it, it happens at some of the more rural depts because they go to scenes in POV's and create utter chaos.

    2) Getting an engine - Full crew on the road.
    3-4 minutes, full time chief responds from station. Our dispatch retones if nothing is heard from after 2 minutes and we usually only get re-toned 2-3 times a year.

    3) Getting a full assignment on the road (Say 3 Eng & 1T).
    After work hours 10 minutes, during the day usually 15ish, our tanker is only 1800 gallons so its really more of an engine, so our initial full assignment is 3 engines, heavy rescue/cascade, and a ladder.

    4) Extricating 1 patient within the Golden Hour.
    No problem, heavy rescue, engine, and our light rescue. We can reach anywhere in town or interstate within 15 minutes of tones and chief is on scene anywhere within 5-10 so helicopters and extra units are requested early.

    5) Getting 1st Water on the fire.
    about 10-20 minutes.

    6) Establishing a viable water supply of 750 gpm or more.
    In the village its within minutes using hydrants, outside of town second engine in feeds the first and if it comes in as a 1st alarm then mutual aid is assigned to water supply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 38ffems
    1) Getting an engine - Driver only on the road.
    Doesn't happen here unless the chief special requests it, it happens at some of the more rural depts because they go to scenes in POV's and create utter chaos.

    .
    Well, I don't know about that. Our policy is that the first engine will always have at least two on board (driver + 1.....usually we manage more than that, depends on time of day and other factors). Second engine will often roll with only a driver, but for most fires everyone will be working off the first engine anyway (regarding tools, lines, SCBA's, etc.). Second engine is mainly there to relay from the hydrant or otherwise help with water supply, so one man can normally do what needs to be done. Also, it's a two-door conventional cab, so you won't carry that many more guys in it, anyway.

    There are many departments who don't allow POV response to the scene. That's great if you're in some upper east coast township with a 2.5 square mile response area. We cover approx. 75 square miles and if you live within that 75 square miles, you're eligible to join our department. Therefore, logically, not everyone lives within a minute or two of the station (many do, but not everyone). For departments like mine, it would just add too much time to our response to require everyone to respond to the station first.

    Regarding your comment that it "creates utter chaos"....not necessarily so. If that's the system everyone's used to, it can be made to work effectively. Granted, I'd prefer to have the most people possible responding on apparatus, and driving right past the station when there are still trucks to be rolled is a no-no. Our guys are trained to park POV's on the same side of the street as the incident, and to be mindful of leaving the roads clear for other apparatus and civilian traffic.

    It may be different from what you're used to, but no two departments are alike.
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream — and I hope you don't find this too crazy — is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    — C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

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    Look at your department’s main goal or mission statement. It probably includes something to the effect “To protect lives and property.” This involves more than improving the time to accomplish the items you listed.

    Look at the time increment from:
    1) Ignition to discovery: Do all homes and business have working smoke detectors and or fire sprinkler systems?

    2) Discovery to reporting: With the plethora of cell phones in use today, do the people in your jurisdiction know to whom they will be talking when they dial 911 on their cell phone? An operator? The State Police 30 miles away? Do they understand the importance of knowing the correct address?

    “911 What’s your emergency?”
    “My house is on fire”
    “Where are you?”
    “In my kitchen.” CLICK! (A real call)

    3) Reporting to dispatching: Does your 911 dispatch handle all types of emergency calls or is the call screened and transferred to the appropriate agency (police, fire, ambulance)?

    4) First water to fire control: Getting water on the fire in a timely manner is important. You may decide the fire must be under control in, say, 30 minutes. If not, why not?

    5) Fire control to extinguishment: Set a goal for this also.

    6) Extinguishment to in-service: This will ensure you are ready for the next call.

    Your department should do everything it can to reduce any time increment from ignition to extinguishment. This may involve public education of children and adults.

    The time from ignition to the fire department being alerted may be an hour. The time from the fire department being alerted to “first water” will be minutes. Guess where you can have the greatest impact on protecting lives and property?

    BTW: Chief LeBlanc, that was a great reply!

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    Dittoes on your points,Bones.We didn't always meet the required response times but it wasn't for lack of trying.Some members live across a busy four lane highway from one of the two stations.If it got too busy,those with two ways would announce that they were going POV with whichever members known to only have pagers following,and at the station,we'd load up their turnouts as well.They're smart enough to keep the scene clear for the rigs and ambulances as needed.
    We had a policy on my old department of no roof work if the fire's been going for six minutes.All we know is how long it took us to get there.
    The front line rigs were 2001 Pierce 6 man cabs while the older(1983) pumpers could carry three if they were friendly enough.Don't ask about how we got two men and a woman into the utility/rescue truck to respond to a grass fire.One man and the woman are married and wish to remain so.
    Once the rigs were enroute,those responding to the station would start whatever was left to air up the brakes just in case something else happened or further manpower was needed.
    At the time I departed,there were no buildings tall enough except for the water tower to merit a true ladder truck,though purchasing one is in the works,according to rumor control.Until then,the first arriving engine does the engine jobs and the second arriving,based on response area(it's a hyphenated named department split by a river)is the truck.

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    Im not saying that simply responding via POV causes chaos, a few depts in particular around here do. In fact I can think of two fires we went mutual aid to and one they couldn't get the tower in that they needed because POV's were all over the place, and another they just blocked everything. If the people could learn not to do that I would be fine. I am sure that there are probably tons of depts who respond POV without issues but it doesn't seem to work out at the few that do it here.

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