1. #1
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    Default Headline from NY Daily News.....

    Feds to city: drop dead

    Homeland honcho cuts funds by 40%

    BY MICHAEL SAUL in New York and MICHAEL McAULIFF in Washington
    DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS


    Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff


    A new report from the Homeland Security Department deems that New York City has no national icons that deserve special protection from potential terrorist threats.

    The city was stunned yesterday to find that its share of federal anti-terror funds was slashed nearly in half by bureaucrats who said it has no national icons to protect and lousy defense plans.

    Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff determined, however, that cities that have never been targeted by Al Qaeda like Louisville, Atlanta and Omaha deserve whopping increases.

    "This is a knife in the back," fumed a furious Rep. Pete King (R-L.I.), chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee. "As far as I'm concerned, the Department of Homeland Security has declared war on New York."

    Mayor Bloomberg ridiculed Homeland Security's reasoning.

    "When you stop a terrorist, they have a map of New York City in their pocket. They don't have a map of any of the other 46 places or 45 places [that get funding]," he fumed.

    The city will get $125 million from the feds' high-threat bank account, a 40% cut from the $207 million it received last year. The Homeland money pot was smaller overall this year, but the rest of the country is being trimmed just 14%.

    The lowball dollar amount puts at risk the NYPD's plan to build a "ring of steel" of security measures around lower Manhattan surveillance cameras, computerized license plate readers and vehicle barriers.

    The NYPD had asked the feds for $89.1 million for the system, modeled after London's security program. London's system gained worldwide recognition last summer when police cameras provided images of the bombers who attacked its transit system.

    Heaping insult on injury, Homeland Security reviewers slammed some of the city's key anti-terror programs as among the worst in the nation including the vaunted NYPD counterterrorism unit.

    Emergency plans for the police, fire, hospitals and other city departments were considered so inferior that "a special condition will be included in the grant award prohibiting drawdown of funds ... until they have been approved through DHS," Homeland's assessment concluded.

    "These are the same bean counters who think that the Statue of Liberty, Empire State Building and Brooklyn Bridge are not national monuments or icons," scoffed Bloomberg spokesman Jordan Barowitz.

    A Homeland Security spokesman insisted New York's cut was based on a powerful new matrix that crunches millions of bits of data to figure out where money is most needed.

    "We're quite frankly getting highly sophisticated in our ability to analyze threat," said Russ Knocke.

    Knocke would not address specifically why a threat-based assessment cut funds for a city that has been attacked twice and targeted repeatedly by Islamic terrorists.

    "It's not so much fighting the last war, it's taking in the threat picture today," he said. "We've got to apply dollars where they will have the greatest impact."

    But a document obtained by the Daily News that explains what Homeland Security reviewers were looking at in their analysis suggests key data were missing.

    For instance, in the category "national monuments and icons," the feds list none. For banking and finance businesses, they could find only four worth more than $8 billion, when the Bloomberg administration estimates there are at least 20.

    "How do you leave every single landmark in the most famous city in the world off of that list?" said Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-N.Y.), who along with King was demanding a meeting with Chertoff.

    Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) blamed the White House and said, "I don't think the President should come back and express solidarity with New York until there is more funding."

    Bloomberg said the city wouldn't change its approach. "We're going to continue to do what it takes to keep this city safe and then worry about the money," he said.

    With Alison Gendar and Dorian Block
    More money to guard nothing


    The fire chief of Charlotte, N.C., admits his city doesn't have any national monuments in danger of being bombed. And a spokesman for Omaha is "not aware" of a single credible threat against his municipality since 9/11.


    Yet these cities are among 15 that received an increase in homeland security funding this year, while New York City's allotment was slashed.

    Most of the lucky localities are using their windfall to buy equipment, beef up training or create emergency response plans.

    In Louisville, Ky., for instance, the money will go toward creating a new communication system for first responders to a disaster.

    A spokeswoman drew on the failure of FDNY radios in the World Trade Center attack on 9/11 even though the tallest building in Louisville tops out at 35 stories.

    Here's how some cities are faring under the new budget:

    Jacksonville, Fla. 2005 funds: $6.8 million. 2006 funds: $9.2 million. Increase: 26%. Major landmark: Alltel Stadium, home of Jacksonville Jaguars.

    St. Louis; 2005 funds: $7 million. 2006 funds: $9.2 million. Increase: 23.6%. Major landmark: Gateway Arch.

    Louisville, Ky.; 2005 funds: $5 million. 2006 funds: $8.5 million. Increase: 41.2%. Major landmark: Churchill Downs race track.

    Omaha 2005 funds: $5.1 million. 2006 funds: $8.3 million. Increase: 38.2%. Major landmark: Offutt Air Force Base.

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    Default

    Your point? or what does it have to do with this forum?

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    So If our little community is lucky enough to get funding for a new apparatus to replace a 1959 truck, we're suppose to feel sorry for NYC and refuse our grant so they can have more funds to mismanage? I guess the citizens of this community and the rest of the country are not as important as the citizens of NYC!
    My 2 cents worth.

    "Just remember. No matter where you go. There you are!"

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    Sorry,

    Not a lot of sympathy from my end either. NYC is definately a target and it sounds like the people responsible for listing important information in the database didn't do their job.

    My understanding, however, is that the information in the database about monuments and large banks was supposed to come from local authorities. It sounds as if your local politicians didn't do their job.

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    I was just posting the article. I found it intresting thats all. By the way I am chief of a small town of around 1,000 people. Your attacking the wrong guy.

    edited in an attempt to diffuse the direction this thread was headed.
    Last edited by benson11; 06-01-2006 at 10:20 PM.

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    Default Another sorry

    I know we are in Iowa and not in a high profile area but I to say so sorry about the loss of funding for NYC & DC if anyone did some quick math like I did the amount that they get would equal around 500 years worth of my alotment for my fire & rescue dept. Mind warping isn't it.

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    computerized license plate readers
    When did terrorists start registering their license plates?

    By this brief article, sounds like a lot of plans for stuff AFTER the attack instead of security to prevent the attack. Maybe THAT is why the funding was cut?

    Don't know, I get mostly NY based news in my area so it's a little biased. We get no funding in our area, so it's just a matter of curiousity to me.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Guys as chief of a small town I understand your views. But you can also look at per resident spending and then it looks like the residents of new york city are getting short changed.

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    The issue that sticks out for me is that DHS says NY has substandard plans in place:

    Emergency plans for the police, fire, hospitals and other city departments were considered so inferior...
    I don't know the details of said plans but what I have heard or seen seemed to be progressive. No solution is ideal but they all seemed to provide more than what is there now. Other cities certainly deserve money, 5 attacks in mid-sized cities that have nothing in place will hurt/kill more people than an attack in NYC right now despite the high population concentration because they have more to throw at the threats than other cities. They've gotten a lot of money over the past few years for anti-terrorism, and not the only place that's been threatened. There has to be a reason other cities are now getting money from DHS that they aren't sharing. Can't say for sure, once the saber rattling hits the media like this the real story is buried and the taxpayers everywhere lose out.

    Next usually comes a Congressional committee to analyze the problem and then no one sees money for a long time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er
    The issue that sticks out for me is that DHS says NY has substandard plans in place:



    IMO this is true. The money rarely goes to were its supposed to and NYC has duplication of services. The residents of NYC don't relieze that they are paying for two fire depts. As for the FDNY I don't think we got much money anyway. I believe SOC got most of the FD money and rightly so. This will effect the NYPD more, they got most of the money anyway.

    I see no problem with cities mentioned getting more money. They are mid size to large cities that probably haven't gotten much in the past and the cities are more of a target then the town with 1000 people.

    But I am willing to bet my pay check that NYC will be hit again before any place else. NYC is the captial of the world, everyone comes here, everyone knows about it, its an economic powerhouse (even though we can't get a deceint contract) anything that would happen will draw attention, and score a point for the visiting team. Likewise for Chicago, LA, Boston or Dallas. I hope this is a wake up call for NYC. I hope that FD and PD can settle thier differences and more on to bigger and better things....but there is a group involved that doesn't want to work with anyone, they want to do it all and that is what is hurting us.
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    Default Just a thought

    I was envolved in a MCI/Terrorist drill at a Big 12 Football stadium yesterday.
    DHS was involved with advisors, evaluaters, etc... The scenario was that a cropduster was stolen from Oklahoma and flown to Kansas loaded with an organophosphate type material. This aircraft then flew over a stadium w/50,000 spectators and sprayed the crowd. After speaking to several of the DHS personnel, I found out why this particular scenario was chosen. DHS feels that this type of threat is now one of their top concerns right now, and particularly in the Mid-West. They feel that a crowd at a stadium in an area where, shall we say, has some concerns, is the biggest threat right now. This threat may be foriegn and/or domestic. Remember Oklahoma City? It just may be that with all the monies that have gone to NYC and DC, for terrorist prevention and response, that it has left a gap elsewhere?
    That is just my thought.
    Last edited by jmkfire; 06-02-2006 at 02:31 PM.

    "Just remember. No matter where you go. There you are!"

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    Fact. During football season about everyone in the states of NE and KS are in the football stadiums on Saturday aren't they? I know NE shuts down completely when the Cornhuskers are playing.

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    Am I the only one who thinks NY is pulling a NOLA here? Seems like both cities want the Feds to foot the bill for security measures that they should be doing themselves.

    Something tells me there are a lot of dopey things being bought with this money instead of it going where it needs to go. Here's hoping this will inspire the city to cut the waste and redundancy and improve their funding priorities.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    --General James Mattis, USMC


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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er
    Fact. During football season about everyone in the states of NE and KS are in the football stadiums on Saturday aren't they? I know NE shuts down completely when the Cornhuskers are playing.
    You're Right! I think both Lincoln, NE and Manhattan, KS about double (maybe more) in size on a Fall Saturday!

    "Just remember. No matter where you go. There you are!"

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    I can understand the cut, I keep seeing NYPD spending money to duplicate services that FDNY already provide's and excel at, why does NYPD need a collapse unit when FDNY already has one? Recently on the news I saw a NYPD-EMS unit. When there is a city that gives command to the police for a haz-mat incident over the Fire Dept cause the reason the Mayor gives is preservation of evidence deserves nothing. Life Safety is the primary priority in a hazerdous situation not some silly excuse just to give his favorite agency more funding just so they can duplicate a service already provided. New York should have 100% of Federal funding cut till the wasteful duplication is stoped.

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    As far as I know the NYPD doesnt have a collapse unit. The NYPD-EMS unit you saw belongs to ESU and there only purpose is to transport injured officers or there families between hospitals for specialized treatment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falcon
    As far as I know the NYPD doesnt have a collapse unit. The NYPD-EMS unit you saw belongs to ESU and there only purpose is to transport injured officers or there families between hospitals for specialized treatment.
    Negeative. NYPD ESU units are called "Trucks" and "ESS", thery are 1-10 if I remember correctly. Each one has a different specialty, but all are trained in confined space, collapse, EMTs...etc etc. The EMS unit they run...I have personnaly worked with it in lower Manhattan. There was a directive that came over from FDMY/EMS HQs that stated NYPD was going operate this bus and it might be seen anywere in the city and that we were to not get in thier way. Hey, great idea for High risk warrents....but for the day to day stuff....the cops IMO have no business doing a task that is effectively being done already. Hey....I served in an anti-terror team in the USMC....you don't see me running around NYC conduction anti-terror ops....or making arrests.
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    All ESS trucks have the same training. Some trucks are provided with additional equipment such as RMI's(Robots for tactical purposes),Jumper equipment(airbags),Armored vehicles,Floodlight trucks,and I stand corrected on the collapse truck. These trucks are spread around the city for faster response. As for the EMS unit they operate it is only used for MOS or there immediate family members who need transportation between hospitals for specialized treatment or for transportation back to their residence. The unit operates out of Floyd Bennett and they DO NOT operate 24 hours a day and are available by prior request. They DO NOT work off the 911 system and the only time you will see them is when they are requested for MOS transportation. They have one possibly two buses.

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    I don't think NYC is looking for pitty from anyone. Just looking for the powers to be to use the freakin heads when giving out this money. I heard a story on the radio of a town in alaska with a population of 2,500 residents that recieved money and purchased 50+ security cameras to be placed around town for security. They figured it was equal to $16.00 to $20.00 per person for security. While in NYC I believe about 20 cents per person was figured out for security. Look at the facts guys terror threats are not being made for these hole in the wall places. It's the big cities that will get hit. I see guys talking about football games with 50,000 people per game.Sure thats a risk but thats maybe twice a month for a few months. NYC , D.C. see this many in a city block every day of the week. Everybody wants a peice of the pie to have the coolest and nicest sh** around even if it is never gonna be used. Where as the guys and the places that will need it will have to do without.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falcon
    They DO NOT work off the 911 system and the only time you will see them is when they are requested for MOS transportation. They have one possibly two buses.

    This was not the case when the message from FDNY/EMS came down about 3 or 4 years ago. Nor was it the case when this bus was on the corner of St. Marks and Ave "A" taking a well know skell out of the park, nor was it when they took a minor stabbing victim off of Nassau and Rivington streets. You can tell me anything you want....I know what my experiances are.
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    I'll address the issues as I see them and you can agree or disagree:

    Issue 1: The report didn't include any "national" icons.

    The report wasn't fashioned by NYC folks...it was by these nameless "Peer" reviewers that the Feds used. It is strongly beleived many of these people were poltical operatves that simply thought they could manipulate the factors that determined the scoring and thus would be able to steer the $$$ to the places the polticians wanted to send it, not where it was really needed.

    To say there were no "National" Icons. Does raise credibility issues and competancy issues with the DHS and the Bush Admin in general. This is beyond absurd to suggest there are only 4 something financial insitutions and no national icons in NYC...Hell I can think of about 100 below Chambers St. alone!

    Issue 2: Wasteful spending/ DC not happy with NYC plans

    There might be truth to this...however it might not why you think. Republicans and paticularly the Bush Adminstration have never been big on funding for people....from local issues to national issues they support in general terms..."Inovative technologies", "synergistic applications",....that somehow solve issues that in reality require nothing more than manpower.

    These are the same people who fight putting a 4th man on your Engine but claim somehow that a TIC, Quint or new gear will somehow replace the need for that 4th man.

    The Bush Admin doesn't like NYC's approach which includes plenty of OT for Police and uses it in silly publicity stunts such as the Operation "surge" (not sure if that is the correct name) where they send lots (50+)of RMPs into Times Square, Columbus Circle...In front of St. Pats...etc. and just sit around for awhile as if that was going to scare away terrorists. In talking to the cops I know they all think it is a joke and refer to it in various ways...as operation "give tourists directions" as they just sit around while "detering" terrorism and have to answer numerous questions from tourists. It is all to make people see the presence and "feel" safe...more than it is realisiticly supposed to scare off men intent on doing harm. They'd probably do better raiding every other house in Northern Bay Ridge and in Ridgewood Queens.

    Many of them are taken away from other pct's and are on OT.

    The Feds rather pay for "training" and cameras...than real preventive meaures that usually include someone on a foot patrol or assigned to a fire company. Training won't do any good if you don't have people with that training on the streets.

    Also it is recognized especially after the Haz-Mat debacle that there is a large duplication of services in the city and experts accross the country and I'm sure a few in DC don't feel like supporting this un-necessary expenditure.

    Regardless if Ray Kelly or the NYPD like it or not...there are many persons out there that completely disagree with their use of funding and don't wish to throw more of it down the drain. If the NYPD would focus more on real anti-terrorism & crime fighting and less on taking over the responsiblites of other agencies and increasing the duplication of services that now exists they probably would get all the funding they needed.

    But we all know what happens when a Meglomaniac attains the power that PC Popey has. I don't expect to see a change until the next mayoral administration.

    FTM-PTB

    PS- I do think it is a joke that some of these other places have gotten funding with what has been admitted as a zero amount of threats or limited amount of potential for terroristic attacks.

    I can't imagine there are really 46 cities in this country who have a realisitc threat against them...maybe 10 but certainly not 46!

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    FFFRED hit the nail on the head.
    The FEDS know exactly what the city is spending the money on and I think there just fed up with it. When you send cops on O/T to high crime areas to give out summonses and classify it as an anti-terrorism detail how long can you get away with it until the FEDS wise up. For every dollar that the city gets and spends on something useful $10 more dollars just goes straight into the blackhole of the city government never to be seen again.

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