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  1. #41
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    Unhappy

    Oh, our firehouses DO let children into our TV rooms. See, we have tours come through fairly regularly so the chance is great that one would be found....In fact, someone use to bring their stash of Playboy and leave them in the restrooms (even though we have a policy against it)... 10 year old boy came with the tour and needed to go the bathroom (which of course we allowed him to do) and guess what he came out with!

    Our local union had a great time fighting that one.... Every guy in the department looked bad on the actions of one.

    OUR firehouses are public domains! My locker is just about the only "privacy" area I have and even that is regulated by our policies (cannot hang adult material in lockers)...

    Nothing wrong with reading what you want,,,, knock yourself out! But if the department policy / HR policy is against it, do it on your own time!


  2. #42
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    theacrobat...

    You don't care what case law says? Really? How bizarre is that opinion.

    Our firefighters ahve been told you can look at those magazines just leep them out of the public areas, to include the kitchen and bathrooms. Seems simple enough maybe your FD should try it.

    FyredUp

  3. #43
    Forum Member clancyxdogg's Avatar
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    Sounds like "theacrobat" uses his acrobatic skills to not end up in the chief's butt when he stops short. Another skell who'll run to the local when the current chief resigns and management changes to someone he hasn't sucked up to.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by theacrobat
    I don't care what the case law says! It clearly appears that you cannot go without your article chocked Playboy so keep sneaking it in and enjoy your potty breaks! All your legal mumbo jumbo means nothing. City administrations as well as just about EVERY workplace out there has policies against this type of material. Arguing for your "rights" to look at this as well as other questionable material is rather funny.

    To say "who really cares what you are reading/doing as long as you respond when a fire comes in" is the most ignorant comment I have read on this site. Well, who really cares what your local phone company operator is reading while they are answering your billing questions??? NOBODY but they still have polices against it. In fact, they have policies against having possession of this type of material in the workplace (as do most companies).

    Sorry! I don't want my kids school teachers, judges, doctors, etc running back and forth from doing their JOB in order to get their 15 minute fix on PORN or even softcore Playboy.

    "Your living quarters"? I hate to tell you this but just because you work 24 hour shifts (as I do), it isn't yours! It is your station that those who hired you empowered you to be responsible for....This is a job where YOU work for the citizens of your community. You come across like everyone owes YOU... WHAT IS IN IT FOR "ME"... "WAAAAAAA,,, they want to take away my Playboy or my P***Y Party magazine!" Get over it! Don't you come to work to be a FIREMAN? Want something to read in your "downtime", why not read Firehouse??? Go out and train on something. Go drive around... Do something short of getting your rocks off (oh, sorry, reading articles) between calls....Bet you already know everything already though.

    Constitutional rights don't mean you have to lose your ability to have common sense and some self discipline. If the department policy says NO,,,, then it is no! Once again, get over it.... Keep in in your car and when you get off, go sit under a bridge and enjoy! I know you have been in the business a long time; maybe too long!

    In closing, doesn't the MALTESE CROSS stand for 8 character traits? At least for the 24 hours you work, pretend that you stand for some of them!

    All I can say is you must be extreemly young, have a personal beef with what you regard as inapropriate material for adults to read and refuse to address the questions and facts I and others have presented. Are you so sexually repressed that you get physically ill when you see an image of a female in the nude? Do you jerk off in a closet so god can't see you?

    I would really love to work with you for a tour...what a fun day that would be. You wouldn't last a mintue!

    I suggest you take a history class or perhaps some intro-Law class and learn about how this country was founded, on what principles and how our legal system works. It would probably be an eye opener for you.

    It is clear to me you will do none of what I have asked becasue you are much too ignorant of the facts behind this issue and are too immature to discuss this without your attempts at character assasination and application of your own personal beliefs on our Constitutional rights.

    BTW-What if your department unilaterally decided to require you to work 80 hours a week for no OT despite a contract in place with strict rules against such practices...Would you also claim..."if the Dept. says so...then it is so"? I seriously doubt it.

    Either argue with facts or go back to your explorer post meeting and leave us adults to deal with adult issues.

    FTM-PTB

    PS-Never heard any nonsense about the maltese standing for anything other than itself...must be some silly nonsense your volly house came up with.
    Last edited by FFFRED; 06-26-2006 at 10:44 AM.

  5. #45
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    Just have a mind that isn't so self serving as to think that my needs/desires, etc come above that of those that I serve....

  6. #46
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    Extremely young? 35 so I will take that as a compliment.

    Sight of nude women does me just right.... My wife will testify as will our 4 children! I just don't need to be teathered to it 24 hours a day. That is what my off days are for!

    If I worked a 24 hour shift with you, you'd be sleeping on the couch with your blanky because you aren't use to actually getting out and working,,,oh unless the "fire" should come in. And no, lock ups in the john do not count as working!

    Sorry! Not an explorer. Not a "volunteer" either. Full time, professional, IAFF member firefighter who happens to have an opinion not fully rooted in the left wings of your mind. I actually had to work in the real workplace for most of my life to see how things really work. Most things in the fire service are worth fighting to keep, playboy in the station is not one that I feel is worth dying over... PERIOD!

    Oh, and my fellow breatheren before me must agree because they have NEVER fought to have it put into our contact, bylaws or policies. I guess we deal with your "adult" issues a little bit more maturely here in my part of the world.

    Hurry though, I bet this months subscription is probably sitting in your mailbox.... You go read it. I am off, I think I will go get the real thing!!!!

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by theacrobat
    Extremely young? 35 so I will take that as a compliment.

    Sight of nude women does me just right.... My wife will testify as will our 4 children! I just don't need to be teathered to it 24 hours a day. That is what my off days are for!

    If I worked a 24 hour shift with you, you'd be sleeping on the couch with your blanky because you aren't use to actually getting out and working,,,oh unless the "fire" should come in. And no, lock ups in the john do not count as working!

    Sorry! Not an explorer. Not a "volunteer" either. Full time, professional, IAFF member firefighter who happens to have an opinion not fully rooted in the left wings of your mind. I actually had to work in the real workplace for most of my life to see how things really work. Most things in the fire service are worth fighting to keep, playboy in the station is not one that I feel is worth dying over... PERIOD!

    Oh, and my fellow breatheren before me must agree because they have NEVER fought to have it put into our contact, bylaws or policies. I guess we deal with your "adult" issues a little bit more maturely here in my part of the world.

    Hurry though, I bet this months subscription is probably sitting in your mailbox.... You go read it. I am off, I think I will go get the real thing!!!!
    Well at 35 you should be ashamed at being so ignorant of the law and incapable of holding an intelligent argument without completely ignoring every relevant fact and law that this subject is based in. Just sneek by with a GED are we? Do everyone a favor and educate yourself on work place rights...you know those things that an IAFF member should appricate.

    A real job, a real workplace?...I seriously doubt if we compared who has worked where and does what while at work who would know more about the real world here. My workplace doesn't get anymore real than it gets. That isn't chest thumping or bravado...that is just a fact and I'm not going to sit here and let you attempt at changing the focus of the discussion to topics that while irrelevant don't support your argument even if they were topical.

    So you're another clown who thinks that the fire service is a joke? This must just be a side job to you... Hmmm must be indicitative of you working in a f*ckshop that does nothing but EMS runs and the occasional garbage can fire...if you really worked in a decent firehouse you wouldn't be making those claims about what a joke the fire department is as compared to the white collar private sector! If your firehouse is easier than a white collar job...well the only joke here is you.

    As for sleeping with my blanky...I doubt between the two of us that I get more rest (I've yet to really sleep in a firehouse) than you! My last night tour we did 8 runs inlcuding a 2nd Alarm. You really don't want to start this argument.

    Besides back to the issue at hand...

    There is a long list of Dead men who fought to preserve everyones rights...including the First Amendment and if you are unwilling to fight and die for it...you are a coward and deserve no rights.

    If I want to read an interview in this months Playboy...why do you think you or anyone else has the right to say I can't read that publication?

    You never did explain the difference between Playboy and let's say Cosmo or National Geographic or even the sexually prevocotave ads in Victorias Secret ads...we are still waiting.

    Now this must be a newsflash for you...but it isn't in our contract either...it is in the Constitution of these United States and is supported by specific and ancilary court decsions. As I said before: look it up...you might just get an education. I'm at a loss to understand why expecting to have all the rights of a citizen of these Untited States as we are is somehow immature or beneath us? Could you expand on this thought?

    Remember...
    The Constitution is relevant....PERIOD.
    The Case Law is relevant....PERIOD.
    Your personal beliefs are irrelevant....PERIOD.

    Still waiting for an argument based on facts...get back to us when you have those.

    FTM-PTB

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by theacrobat
    Just have a mind that isn't so self serving as to think that my needs/desires, etc come above that of those that I serve....
    WTF does all that mean exactly? These aren't "needs/desires" that we are talking about...they are INALIENABLE RIGHTS! There is a Grand Caynon of difference between the two.

    I also don't understand how your needs in this specific case interfere with your sworn duty? Could you explain this also?

    FTM-PTB

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    PS-Never heard any nonsense about the maltese standing for anything other than itself...must be some silly nonsense your volly house came up with.
    FFFRED-- check yourself, brother. The maltese cross has a rich history, originally intended to extoll the virtues of a Christian warrior. The 8 points were, and still are, character virtues.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltese_Cross_%28symbol%29

    Silly volly nonsense? Not exactly.

    Edited to add: techincally, the fire service maltese is not a TRUE maltese cross. It's an adaptation, but the "chivalric values" are still cited.
    Last edited by MamaLieut; 06-26-2006 at 12:38 PM.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by MamaLieut
    FFFRED-- check yourself, brother. The maltese cross has a rich history, originally intended to extoll the virtues of a Christian warrior. The 8 points were, and still are, character virtues.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maltese_Cross_(symbol)

    Silly volly nonsense? Not exactly.
    Agreed though...

    I think you need to do more research as those points might have some meaning to the Knights of St. John of Malta or to the blokes on the other side of the pond but there is no evidence to support why my Department (or Brooklyn FD) most likely was the first to choose it as their badge also brought along with it the 8 points. It most likely stems from a Civil War unit and not because of the 8 virtues or anything like that.

    Furthermore interesting as it maybe it doesn't factor into Constitutional rights which is at the crux of this discussion.

    Interesting side note thought...thanks for the pointer.

    FTM-PTM

  11. #51
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    Talking

    FFFRED - You do have me laughing. You have my ultimate respect though. I did not know you were from where you were from. I kind of read that later and thought "nice move, stupid" of myself. I intend no disrespect for you and your point of view. My house is busy but does not hold a candle to anything that the guys in FDNY do. Your slowest house probably handles what my department does. Then again though, it has little to do with Heffner....

    Still believe that hills worth dying on are not made out of the pages of PB. Or Enquirer or anything stupid like that. Since it is our city's fire department, ran by the City Manager/council through our fire chief, stuff like this is not debatable. Sure, it is if you want to take it the Supreme Court... Sometimes you have to chose your battles. Maybe I just haven't been around this FD block long enough so I humbly submit my opinion to you...

    I did get a degree but didn't learn much because I was so addicted to porn most of the time. I just recently have cured myself so I can go to work without being late. Still have a hard time leaving Ms. Plastic Sleeping buddy in the car though.

    And I never ever would encourage burning your porn.... You just never know when it could come in handy!

  12. #52
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    Exactly my point.... I kind of still have that dow-eyed, fresh opinion that firefighters are the good guys. The guys that all people can come to and trust. What people do in the privacy of their own lives is one thing but when we start getting out arguing our right to read PB or worse, I just think it goes against what our image is.

    Then again, I just watched this weeks episode of RESCUE ME and realized that I am behind the 8 ball in what we should be doing. Gavin is showing me what a real firefighter should look like....Long way off from the Island of Malta.

  13. #53
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    Default clancyxdogg

    so you are knocking me because i work at denny's? wtf? so because i go to school and 2 jobs my opinion is less then yours or ironmint's. because my hard work is my vice. just because i have a humble beginning doesn't mean i don't know what i'm talking about. ironmint was wrong and you re wrong. just back off.

  14. #54
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    I actually produced a low budget porn at a Dennys so I am not knocking it one bit. You may have seen the still pics in last months Playboy!

  15. #55
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    Wink

    FFFred,

    I am not knocking your consitutional right to look at whatever you want. Really. Just remember that because you have a constitutial right to do something doesn't always make it the most appropriate thing to do

    I have to go because the midget, donkey and whipped cream strippers just got to the station!

  16. #56
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    so whats next strippers on the firepoles? how about this. we get some strippers and we get called to a fire. first thing we do we let them out then hose them down in white t-shirts. sounds like a good call to me.

  17. #57
    Forum Member clancyxdogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcfd45
    so you are knocking me because i work at denny's? wtf?
    No, I'm knocking you because you're an idiot who can't string two words together.
    so because i go to school and 2 jobs my opinion is less then yours or ironmint's.
    Again, the only reason your opinion is worth less than anybody else's is because you're stupid. (HINT:Throw an extra English class into that GED program.) I also work two jobs and go to school.
    just because i have a humble beginning doesn't mean i don't know what i'm talking about.
    Well, you're right there. It's the fact that you type stupid, childishly written things on internet forums that shows you don't know what you're talking about.
    just back off.
    Back into THIS. (Can you guess where I'm pointing?)

  18. #58
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    posted by "theacrobat"...

    "Your living quarters"? I hate to tell you this but just because you work 24 hour shifts (as I do), it isn't yours! It is your station that those who hired you empowered you to be responsible for....This is a job where YOU work for the citizens of your community. You come across like everyone owes YOU... WHAT IS IN IT FOR "ME"... "WAAAAAAA,,, they want to take away my Playboy or my P***Y Party magazine!" Get over it! Don't you come to work to be a FIREMAN? Want something to read in your "downtime", why not read Firehouse??? Go out and train on something. Go drive around... Do something short of getting your rocks off (oh, sorry, reading articles) between calls....Bet you already know everything already though.
    We used to give tours of our entire HQ station, with the exception of the bunkroom area. The living quarters side of the buidling is now off limits to John and Jane Q. Public and their kids... why?

    Because after a tour of the firehouse by a group of Webelos scouts, some self righteous bible thumping mother made a complaint to the Fire Chief and City Hall about the "pornography" that adorned the walls of the weight room and what she saw on the kitchen table

    What was the "pornography" in question?

    The female firefighter's calender for the the Burn Foundation. I guess she felt that women in t-shirts, tank tops and turnouts is obscene...

    Posters from fitness magazines showing different exercises and the proper way to do them... I guses she would rather pay for IOD's...

    And in the kitchen... A brochure form a cruise line that had what appeared to be a newlywed couple sitting in their bathing suits by the pool!

    Another complaint we got was from a taxpayer, who, after getting the tour of the firehouse stated, and I kid you not, that "since my taxes paid for your gym, I have the right to come in and use it whenever I want"....

    If the station and the appratus is the "property of those who hired us, pand pay the taxes that fund our salaries "... then where the hell are they when it's time for housework and washing the rigs?

    PS: a "grateful citizen" in our fair city purchased a series of magazine subscriptions for the stations, as he or she put it "for your enjoyment while waiting for the next call"....... among them....

    Maxim, FHM, Car and Driver, Motor Trend, Forbes, Field and Stream, Newsweek and CondeNast Traveler.

    PS: forgot..he/she also got us Firehouse, Fire Engineering and FireRescue magazines
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 06-27-2006 at 12:54 PM.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo
    The living quarters side of the buidling is now off limits to John and Jane Q. Public and their kids... why?
    We also do not take tours through the living quarters side of the station (bedrooms, locker rooms, offices, and gym). How many kids come to the station and say, "Let me see your bathrooms..." I've had zero say that, most just want to see the truck and the lights flashing and then after that they could care less what we show them. Being that we live at that station for 10 days out of the month, we should be allowed to our own privacy and the public generally understands and respects that. We tell them, "Out of respect for my fellow firefighters privacy, we won't go into the bunkroom area." No one ever questions that, and if they do, all we have to say is, "That is where we go for a 'quiet area' of the station.. whether we need to study or take a private phone call, etc." I agree that the station was paid for by taxpayers, but I'm yet to find one taxpayer who won't respect our privacy.
    Do it because you love it, not because you love being seen doing it.

  20. #60
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    Angry clancyxdogg

    please stop insultng me. this is unprofessional and you are not acting like an adult. please knock it off.

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