1. #1
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    Default Questioning a FOG change

    Recently out Chief, who took the office 6 months ago and began to completely change out FOG's, i say change rather than overhaul them as many think the changes being made make no sense. Recently a couple of members were spoken took as a result of this. Now bare in mind the chief and his groupies (officers some would call them) have been working on the changes, i have only heard bits and pieces and im a past asst chief. The completed guide has not been issued to anyone yet either. The men who were spoken to had responded to a transformer fire with one of our engines, as has been our practice for the 11 years i have been active. The chief has since stated that the FOG says that only the salvage is to respond to any tranformer fires or wires down calls, no pump is needed to respond. THis stirred quite a debate at our meeting the other night and resulting in 3 former chiefs denouncing the current chief and stating that he was wrong. I guess what im looking for is what others feel on this should a pump roll to wires down and transformer type fires, i think so, protect life, property. If you roll a salvage all u can do is direct traffic. Would love to hear some opionins this is my first post in a long time, hoping to get back in the swing of things here.

  2. #2
    55 Years & Still Rolling
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    Smile Well...............

    I could ask "What's a FOG?" and "What's a Salvage?". But I won't. What I will say is, to answer your question, I've never heard of handling an incident involving energized electrical systems without having an Engine as, or as part of, the equipment dispatched. Just as one Firefighter to another, when you have a question to throw out to us, please remember that your audience is Worldwide, and many terms or discriptions are used to describe the same thing as you go from one part of the world to another. Regardless, you ask, and we'll give the advice. We are VERY good at telling others where to go........
    Seriously, good luck with this, sounds like a few airheads stirring the pot.
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    Default To Clarify

    The Term FOG would stand for Feild operating guide.... and the Term Salvage is in a sense a rescue that responds primarily to carry manpower, extra equiptment, traffic details.....the truck has no water, and minimal ems on board. I guess it is more or less a equiptment and manpower truck

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  5. #5
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    Default

    well I don't know about your department but around here an SOG (FOG) is not put into place until our board of directors signs off and doesn't see anything that needs to be changed.

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    Default Makes sense

    One would think that it would need to be signed off on, but our fire commisioners are still living in the central ny past, and all the progress and changes made under the previous 2 chiefs over the last 10 years have been thrown right out the window, turing a blind eye to saftey and allowing the chiefs and officers to do as they please.

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    Default

    Boards exist to establish policy, not edit orders.

    Orders -- which is what "FOGs", "SOPs" or whatever you want to call them are -- should be issued under the Chief's signature. Chief should involve other Officers and experienced firefighters in drafting the orders.

    But the above two paragraphs are theoretical and based on the assumption of effective communication and mutual respect and it sounds like there are problems much deeper here than how you respond to a wires down call.

  8. #8
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    oh, good, and here I thought we were about to get into another Fog vs. Smoothbore debate
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  9. #9
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    yea that debate could last forever

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    We respond with 2 engines. Once on scene and no fire hazard exists, we return the engines and leave a fire police unit to remain and direct traffic around the scene until electric company arrives.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Default update

    Just wanted to give a update on the discussion i started last week. I went to our commisioners meeting this past monday and this issue was discussed. Our commisioners basically told our chief they would prefer to see a engine respond, however he is the chief and they want him to make the final decision about what to respond to calls and writing the F.O.G.. They basically said what they dont know wont hurt them. Not too bring up old news but as one of our members put it the other day, sounds like our chief and commisioners have fallen back into the pre-lairdsville, nothing bad ever happens here memtallity

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    We are currently going through a S.O.G. (Standard Operating Guideline) review at my department (guidelines were written 10 years ago with no reviews since) The guidelines were were first reviewed, rewritten, new ones added etc. by myself and my Chief officers. The new guideline books were printed and distributed to each Captain and they are now in the process of reviewing these with their squads, for suggestions, input, and general discussion. The entire Officers group will meet in July with the Chief Officers for final workup and distribution. The end result (hopefully) will be guidelines which had imput from all levels, and most importantly the front line troops, by involving them in this process they already have "buyin" and "ownership" of the Guidelines.

    Personally I don't believe S.O.G.'s should be carved in stone, they should be "living documents" that are subject to review or change as needed.

    Also donot confuse "GUIDELINES" with rules and regulations, Standard Operating Guidelines allow a firefighter/crew etc. to operate uniformly and to give the officer some latitude as to changing situations they may encounter.

    A "rule" does not allow this latitude I.E. "Mandatory Mask Rule, Seat belt usage, reflective gear on highways, etc."
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalmatian190
    Boards exist to establish policy, not edit orders.

    Orders -- which is what "FOGs", "SOPs" or whatever you want to call them are -- should be issued under the Chief's signature. Chief should involve other Officers and experienced firefighters in drafting the orders.

    But the above two paragraphs are theoretical and based on the assumption of effective communication and mutual respect and it sounds like there are problems much deeper here than how you respond to a wires down call.

    Strongly agree
    [FONT=Times New Roman]Douglas R. Patton
    IACOJ
    "Omnis Cedo Domus"
    I am now a former Chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone.
    Isaiah 6:8

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