Thread: search

  1. #26
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    Dal, you and I come from the same school of thought on searches. Oriented searces for the primary are the way to go, with a little practice and coordinaton, it can be the quickest and most efficient, especially if ahead of the initial line.
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  2. #27
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    I have read each of your responses and each of you have given several good points when conducting a primary search. The one tool that was not mentioned in any of the replys was the use of the TIC. We carry one on each Engine, Ladder and Squad. This tool is very useful during searches and other applications. As an officer on a squad and assigned to search and rescue at working fires the TIC has enhnaced our abilities to perform a productive search. We do a camera lead search, I will lead the crew to the area we are searching, when we reach a room we are searching I will do a 6 pt check with the camera. As they are searching I will direct them as to there location within the room. As I'm doing this it allows me to check the room left to right, top to bottom, front to back (Oriented search) what's in the room is very important. I also make sure my search light is on at the door for the search crew, as well as each firefighter having there search light on and tools in hand. I know it sounds like a lot and time consuming but with proper training and your crew knowing there job the TIC will make your search much easier. I agree with starting as close to fire as possible when feasable. I'm not saying this is the answer to all searches but it's worked well for us. Training is the key to this type of search. Keep up the good work & STAY SAFE.
    Last edited by fdsq10; 06-11-2006 at 11:02 PM.

  3. #28
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    Hmmm...

    Excellent point on the TIC -- I have to laugh, because it's something I know that isn't in my "hands" skills yet...those being things you grab / do automatically because of a combination of drilling and experience. And part of that is because the last several drills I was at using a TIC I was running the drill and not participating closely in the "hands-on" side.

    I can write the lesson plan to use it...but when you ask me out of the blue (like this thread), or if I was to jump off a fire truck today I revert to the "hands skills" that are simply automatic and go to a conventional, non-TIC assisted search. It's the same principle why so many times you see a 1-3/4 line pulled when it's obviously a 2-1/2 fire...people are used to automatically doing certain things. Gotta get doing different things drilled into the hands.

    Also, good point, and B-3 would be the better place to start the search. Not only for extra heat, but also in case the floor is weakening, get the "live load" searching over and done as early as possible.

    As for when teams move up, I don't know if there is a hard-and-fast rule. Most houses are not that much of a maze...the ones that are make oriented searches that much more important so you don't get lost.

    If I had a door at the far end of a room, most likely I'd open it, sweep it with my hand / tool -- if it's bigger than a closet or bathroom, I'd probably complete the sweep of the main room, then get back with the officer maintaining the orientation point -- we could move up together to go and sweep that other room. If it seems like a closet/bathroom/etc, I'd shout over "Hey, I have a bathroom I going in to check."

  4. #29
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    those being things you grab / do automatically
    That's Ok Dal, cuz the guys that are used to searching with the TIC all the time also need to spend time doing the search without it and knowing the procedures. It works both ways.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  5. #30
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    I agree with you 100% and we do train without the TIC. I have had screen failure during a search and had to continue to search without it, adapt and overcome. It's like venting the roof with the saw and it craps out then you use the Axe that should be with you. Again training is the key to your success and setbacks. STAY SAFE!!!!!

  6. #31
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    Default Great topic

    Great topic, guys...glad to hear someone else is teaching the "oriented search" method.

    If I missed this during the perusal of the thread, please forgive me...using tools to search was mentioned...and I FULLY advocate carrying a tool with you, however--I was taught to sweep with an axe handle or halligan. Lt. Rick Kolomay taught me in one of his classes a few years ago to use the tool to find your way back to the wall. His point was the fact that you need to use your hands (tactile senses) to tell whether or not you found a victim. A pillow or toy or cushion might feel the same as a human body. Also, you probably don't want to stab a victim with the fork or hook of your halligan!

    We're just starting to use the TI-directed-oriented search. Officer sits in the door with the TIC and directs the movement of the search crews.

    As an aside, has anyone read "Incident Management for the Street Smart Fire Officer?" The Author advocates having the "Search Team" and "Rescue Team" separate, if a victim is found, the rescue team does the removal, so that the search team doesn't lose track of where they were and where they were going. What does everyone think of this?

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    In normal FF operations, we do not use the Search Team/Rescue Team. We do, however, use that setup for our F.A.S.T. In those cases, it has worked well.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  8. #33
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    To put it simply...it depends on not only the fire location but visability.

    You must maintain contact with your partner. If visability is crap, then you must use touch. If visability is not so bad you can use sight.

    Rapid search means just that. Move as fast as you can looking for victims, hitting all the areas but doing it quickly. A secondary search is a slow, methodical search of everything.
    Jason Knecht
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    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

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