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  1. #21
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    Deleted.....my opinion holds no weight in this subject area.
    Last edited by MG3610; 06-26-2006 at 06:51 AM.


  2. #22
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    Yeah our front mount is mounted on a International chassis standard cab. But to order a International crew cab is beyond me...Our Dept is not that big.
    Now I have been on depts that had a Ford and a FWD front mount, but the dept I was on got rid of the front mounts and went to Mids. So I guess its just where you are....

  3. #23
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    I have experience with top mount pumps (my career FD) and side and front mount pumps (my volly FD) and frankly myt preference is a well designed and laid out side mount pump panel and the front mount is a close second.

    As for why I like the side mount over the top mount we just received our new 2006 pumper and during the spec process we found that going to a top mount pump panel we would be adding 20 or 24 inches to the length of the truck, space we don't have in our station. Secondly, I keep hearing people talk about visibility well frankly I don't want the pump operator looking at the fire I want him watching the pump. Running the pump is his job not being a secondary fire ground safety officer. Thirdly, in wisconsin we get winter and with that comes cold, snow and ice, all things condusive to slip and fall injuries. Climbing up and down increases those odds of injury.

    Okay for the people who have never run a front mount and have all these ideas about them let me set you straight. It makes NO difference at all if you are drafting with a front mount pump rated at 1500 gpm or a side mount pump rated at 1500 gpm they will BOTH pump 1500 gpm from draft. It is no detrement to be able to pull your front mount pump right up to the water source and take your suction right off the front of the rig. You will get pump capacity. Any doubts? Call Sister Bay in northern Wisconsin and ask them abut their 4 wheel drive front mount pump supply engine with 2 front 6 inch intakes.

    As for run for the pump operator that is dependent on correct positioning isn't it? If the tank is too close to the rig there is no room. But be honest that can happenb with a side mount too. Suction hose is 10 feet long take advantage of that and give the pump operator some room.

    As for being first to arrive at a wreck, yes that is true, but if you have a front intake on a midship pump and are involved in a severe frontal impact you too can do major pump damage. My volly FD has run front mount pumps since the 1960's and we have never wrecked one yet.

    As for the cold most front mount pumps have a jacket around the pump where heated radiator water is circulated. In the summer this helps cool the engine and in the winter it helps heat the pump. We cover our 1000 gpm Hale front mount on our tanker for the winter months and we have never frozen that pump or any of our other previous front mount pumps either.

    As for the weight on the front end being a detrement to steering and handling Ihaven't noticed it at all. I think trucks of the same size with snow plows are much harder to steer. In 40 some years of front mount pumps steering and handling have not been a problem from the location of the pump. In fact the front bumper on our new pumper sticks out farther than the pump on our front mount pumper.

    I mean no disrespect for what I am about to say but really if you have never run a front mount pump vehicle in your FD what makes you think you can offer a valid opinion on them? Perhaps you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night?

    FyredUp
    Last edited by FyredUp; 06-25-2006 at 10:10 PM.

  4. #24
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    We have run all types here – Had two top mounts – wrecked one and replaced it with a rear mount – Two rear mount pumper tankers and a front mount supply truck as well as a mid-ship– My feeling is buy what works for you – the front mount was the only way to go for our supply truck – works great – cross the beach – drive down the boat ramp what ever – no problem. Rear mounts – great for short wheel base and storage ( I know some will argue that). Side mount / top mount – horse a piece – top mount lots of up and down – we don’t have enough personnel that the pump operator can be tied to the panel – he needs to be able to work around the rig top mount means its harder to help out and access the panel. Also the added length is a draw back. Side mount is shorter – but seems that the pump access for maintenance is worse on a side mount then some top mounts depending on preconnect locations, also some what reduced visibility. I believe that a front mount is a great learning tool – very easy to see and understand how it works – then move up to a mid-ship mounted pump. I know I have strayed from the topic and I apologize.

  5. #25
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    FyredUp I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express lastnight and I liked it..........But yeah my vol. dept has never had a problem with them. Accident wise we had had it stuck up to the 6 inch intake in mud. But other than that our station is not long enough for a crew cab front mount. Me and the Asst. Chief found that outNot unless we did something like the CDF did with a shorter wheel base. Ok we can go back to top and side mount pumps......

  6. #26
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    Sutphen makes a nice solution for those who like top mounts but want a side mount.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  7. #27
    MembersZone Subscriber npfd801's Avatar
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    I'm not so sure Sutphen builds these bodies... Precision Fire has done a few of this style of panel on Sutphen chassis.

    http://www.precisionfireapparatus.com/newdel.html

    Is this a true Sutphen body? I'm curious.

    **EDIT. It must be a Sutphen body, it IS on their site after all. My apologies...**
    Last edited by npfd801; 06-30-2006 at 07:05 PM.

  8. #28
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    got the pic off of the sutphen website in the delivery section.

  9. #29
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    I prefer top mount pumpers, but that is all i have really ever worked around. The only side mount Aparatus our dept. has is our quint, and our '77 LaFrance. Top mounts are traditionally longer, ( our newest pumper is only 2 feet shorter than our quint ) but most of our streets are pretty navigable, aside from a few tight cul-de-sac's.

    Here are a couple pics of our pride & joy. 2005 Crimson Star series, on a Spartan Gladiator chassis. She is a beast, but we love our new girl.

    http://www.crimson-fire.com/crimson/...DeliveryID=393






    www.forestbendfire.com
    Last edited by 275fbvfd; 07-04-2006 at 01:20 AM.

  10. #30
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    That is freaking enourmous in the pump compartment. Kinda reminds me of those semi trucks that you see with a 3 BR house in the sleeper area

  11. #31
    Forum Member bfranse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 275fbvfd
    Here are a couple pics of our pride & joy. 2005 Crimson Star series, on a Spartan Gladiator chassis. She is a beast, but we love our new girl.
    We feel the same way about ours!
    We're not spliting rocket hairs here people!

    Training is like building a pyramid, if you want it to last, you don't built it pointy side down!

  12. #32
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    This is a tough choice for so many reasons. We've always used side mounts historically. That has alot to do with the fact that they've only become popular in the 80's and 90's.

    Our KME was ordered with a top mount after much debate about highway safety, scene visibility. But since I live on the same block as the station...I drive/operate most of the time...and I now really prefer side mount.

    Our particular unit does not have that much of a visibility advantage over sidemounts as the hosebed, lights, deck gun and cab block most everything anyway. You can see straight out the sides which may or may not be advantageous at some scenes. Plus you have to climb, climb and then climb some more. Our operators multi-task around the truck slightly and eventually you get tired of climbing, jumping, slipping, etc. Its not that bad...but it gets a little old.

    Our 2005 Ferrara is a sidemount per my request (demands). I like it much better and find my job easier when I'm on the ground near the compartments, valves, intakes, generator etc. Plus...I can take shelter under the highside doors when its pouring down rain. That is a plus in my book. Furthermore...the savings in wheelbase is significant in some pump build configurations. Builders like to put pumps in a two car garage these days. I will give KME credit for making our QMAX 1500's pump housing rather small...wheras Ferrara's QMAX 1250's is longer than necessary for maintenance.
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    Last edited by fpvfd502; 07-06-2006 at 03:05 PM.
    Assistant Chief

  13. #33
    Forum Member MMA10mm's Avatar
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    I like Precision's idea:


  14. #34
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    Hopkinton is a hop and a skip way fron the Casa de Gonz....

    Farrar Fire Trucks went out of business in the early 1980's.

    Blanchard Associates/E.J. Murphy bought the property from Farrar and was a Pierce dealer for a while.

    When Blanchard Associates lost the Pierce dealership, E.J. Murphy continued on doing refurbs and building brush breakers.

    They have recently become a KME dealer.
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 08-25-2006 at 02:14 PM.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  15. #35
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    General Fire Apparatus made a side mount/top mount deal like Precisions years ago but nobody seemed to notice, that I could tell. It was on a custom cab demo truck at the 1996 FDIC in Indianapolis. I actually still have the color brochure from General Fire Apparatus.
    Assistant Chief

  16. #36
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    I don't think topmounts are really a great idea, for all of the reasons stated previously (climb & slip, lots of up & down, lengthened wheelbase, etc), and I am actually a rear-mount fan (front mounts are still good for drafting pumper applications).

    However, I don't think that any pump - side, top, or rear - puts you in a good place in traffic. That's why we put a secondary governor head and front discharge controls on the doghouse between the driver and officer on our new rear-mount:

    Apparatus pulls up on scene of a [car fire - let's say], sets the pump, tank-to-pump is stored open, CAFS comes on automatically, bumper turret knocks down the heavy body of fire before anybody exits the cab, driver opens the front discharge valve, a firefighter pulls a 1 3/4" pre-connect off the front bumper (one of two 200' 1 3/4" CAFS lines on the bumper) and yanks open the spigot on the water thief & goes to work.

    This way most of the work is done before leaving the safety of the cab, the engineer can place himself where ever he likes after exiting, we get all the advantages of a rear-mount, plus the engineer can monitor and control engine pressure from inside the cab if he's stuck as the supply pumper on a cold winter night - best of all worlds!

  17. #37
    Forum Member MMA10mm's Avatar
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    Blitzfiresolo - good idea!

    The one thing where Precision's raised side mount comes in handy is on a unit that has an elevated master stream, like a Snozzle, Squirt, or Strong-Arm, because it keeps the engineer from being in contact w/ the ground in a compact, assured way.

    The other thing good about it is that it is definitely out of traffic, just like a top-mount, but without the extra 18" of unit length.

    Rear mounts have significant advantages too, but if a dept. runs much in traffic - say, a car fire on the interstate - I'd rather have a different place for my engineer. Those cab controls you came up with are a great idea, or a top-mount, elevated side mount, or front-mount are the other alternatives.

    With all the emphasis on using the front bumper for lines these days, there is some competition for space, but think about how easy of a layout/build for the plumbing if you combine a front-mount pump w/ bumper-located pre-connects and soft-suction! The manufacturer would only have to run the tank-to-pump line, a foam concentrate line, and, if equipped, a rear intake line! Vitually no plumbing behind the front bumper!!

    Precision's elevated side mount almost does it all: keeps engineer out of traffic, keeps him off the ground if you have an aerial master stream device (it also keeps the engineer from banging his head on the boom, if you're not using the aerial device, as happens on mid-mounts), gives him a good view of the fireground, allows shorter wheelbase than a mid-mount.

    About the only thing it doesn't do, is give him a cozy warm/dry place in bad weather. Your cab-controls idea gives you all of that plus the warm/dry place.

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