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  1. #1
    This space for rent NYSmokey's Avatar
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    Default U.S. weighs shootdown of N. Korea missile

    By ROBERT BURNS,
    Associated Press Writer
    50 minutes ago

    WASHINGTON - The Bush administration is weighing responses to a possible North Korean missile test that include attempting to shoot it down in flight over the Pacific, defense officials told The Associated Press on Tuesday.

    Because North Korea is secretive about its missile operations, U.S. officials say they must consider the possibility that an anticipated test would turn out to be something else, such as a space launch or even an attack. Thus, the Pentagon is considering the possibility of attempting an interception, two defense officials said, even though it would be unprecedented and is not considered the likeliest scenario.

    The officials agreed to discuss the matter only on condition of anonymity because of its political sensitivity.

    Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said he could not say whether the unproven multibillion-dollar U.S. anti-missile defense system might be used in the event of a North Korean missile launch. That system, which includes a handful of missiles that could be fired from Alaska and California, has had a spotty record in tests.

    Although shooting down a North Korean missile is a possibility, the Pentagon also must consider factors that would argue against such a response, including the risk of shooting and missing and of escalating tensions further with the communist nation.

    Even if there were no attempt to shoot down a North Korean missile, it would be tracked by early warning satellites and radars, including radars based on ships near Japan and ground-based radars in Alaska and California.

    Robert Einhorn, a senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said a U.S. shootdown of a North Korean missile on a test flight or a space launch would draw "very strong international reaction" against the United States. He saw only a small chance that the U.S. would attempt a shootdown.

    Signs of North Korean preparations to launch a long-range ballistic missile, possibly with sufficient range to reach U.S. territory, have grown in recent weeks, although it is unclear whether the missile has been fully fueled. U.S. officials said Monday the missile was apparently fully assembled and fueled, but others have since expressed some uncertainty.

    Bush administration officials have urged the North Koreans publicly and privately not to conduct the missile test, which would end a moratorium in place since 1999. That ban was adopted after Japan and other nations expressed outrage over an August 1998 launch in which a North Korean missile flew over northern Japan.

    At the time of the 1998 launch, the United States had no means of shooting down a long-range missile in flight. Since then, the Pentagon has developed a rudimentary system that it says is capable of defending against a limited number of missiles in an emergency — with a North Korean attack particularly in mind.

    The Government Accountability Office, Congress' investigative arm, says the Pentagon has spent $91 billion on missile defense over the past two decades.

    The 1998 event turned out to be a space launch rather than a missile test; U.S. officials said the satellite failed to reach orbit.

    U.S. and international concern about North Korea's missile capability is heightened by its claims to have developed nuclear weapons. It is not known whether they have mastered the complex art of building a nuclear warhead small enough to fit a long-range missile, although in April 2005 the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, Vice Adm. Lowell Jacoby, told Congress that North Korea was capable of arming a missile with a nuclear warhead. U.S. officials have since called it a "theoretical capability."

    No administration official has publicly raised the possibility of bombing the North Korean missile before it can be launched. Jan Lodal, a senior Pentagon policy official during the Clinton administration, said in an interview Tuesday that he would not rule out a pre-emptive strike. He said it would be the surest away of eliminating the threat of being surprised by the launch of a Taepodong-2, an intercontinental ballistic missile that some believe has enough range to reach U.S. territory.

    David Wright, a senior scientist at the private Union of Concerned Scientists, said he strongly doubts that the Bush administration could back up its claims of having the capability to shoot down a North Korean missile.

    "I consider it to be rhetorical posturing," Wright said. "It currently has no demonstrated capability."

    The last time the Pentagon registered a successful test in intercepting a mock warhead in flight was in October 2002. Since then, there have been three unsuccessful attempted intercepts, most recently in February 2005.

    Rick Lehner, chief spokesman for the Pentagon's Missile Defense Agency, said the next intercept test is scheduled for the August-September period, to be followed by another before the end of the year. Lehner said that beginning about a year ago, the system has periodically been placed in "operational status."

    Baker Spring, a Heritage Foundation analyst and strong advocate of U.S. missile defenses, said he believes that "in theoretical terms" the U.S. system is a capable of defeating a North Korean missile. And he thinks that if the North Koreans launched on a flight pattern that appeared threatening to the United States, the administration "would be well within its rights" under international law to shoot down the missile.

    The Washington Times reported Tuesday that the Pentagon has placed its missile defense system in an active status for potential use.
    Tom

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    I'm not really certain that alot of people understand the gravity of this situation. This could be the gateway for a war with China. We have to defend ourselves. We also have to defend Japan, South Korea and Taiwan. This isn't good.

    Of course, this idiot Il is used to having the US cave in whenever he conducts a threatening military manuever. I just pray that he realizes we aren't going to back down this time and that he doesn't do something stupid.

  3. #3
    This space for rent NYSmokey's Avatar
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    Default Update just a few hours later

    N.Korea seeks talks with U.S. over missile
    By BURT HERMAN
    Associated Press Writer
    46 minutes ago

    SEOUL, South Korea - North Korea said Wednesday it wants direct talks with the United States over its apparent plans to test-fire a long-range missile, a day after the country issued a bristling statement in which it declared its right to carry out the launch.

    Tensions in the region have soared following intelligence reports that the North was fueling a ballistic missile believed capable of reaching U.S. territory. The United States and Japan have said they could consider sanctions against the impoverished state and push the U.N. Security Council for retaliatory action should the launch go ahead.

    North Korea said in comments published Wednesday that its self-imposed moratorium on testing long-range missiles from 1999 no longer applies because it's not in direct dialogue with Washington, suggesting it would hold off on any launch if the U.S. agreed to new talks.

    "Some say our missile test launch is a violation of the moratorium, but this is not the case," Han Song Ryol, deputy chief of North Korea's mission to the United Nations, told South Korea's Yonhap news agency in an interview from New York.

    "North Korea as a sovereign state has the right to develop, deploy, test fire and export a missile," he said. "We are aware of the U.S. concerns about our missile test-launch. So our position is that we should resolve the issue through negotiations."

    The North's official Korean Central News Agency also ran a report Wednesday on U.S. officials urging direct talks between Washington and Pyongyang in regard to the standoff over the North's nuclear weapons program.

    Pyongyang has consistently pressed for direct dialogue with the United States, while Washington insists it will only speak to the North at six-nation nuclear talks. The North has refused to return to those nuclear talks since November because of a U.S. crackdown on the country's alleged illicit financial activity.

    On Wednesday, the U.S. ambassador to Japan, Thomas Scheiffer, called on Pyongyang to return to the six-party talks but did not address the possibility of bilateral talks.

    "They have the opportunity to do that through the six-party talks," he said. "They don't have to undertake bad policies in order to talk to the United States."

    He also said the United States has means of responding to a North Korean missile test that it didn't have the last time Pyongyang carried out a launch in 1998, and is considering all options.

    Scheiffer didn't say what those options were, but U.S. defense officials in Washington said Tuesday the Pentagon is considering attempting to intercept the missile if it is fired over the Pacific. The officials agreed to discuss the matter only on condition of anonymity because of its political sensitivity.

    The new statement from the North came after France and the U.N. secretary-general raised the alarm over what are believed to be the North's preparations for a test of the Taepodong-2, with a range of up to 9,300 miles. Japan and South Korea also pledged to cooperate to stop Pyongyang's apparent plans for a launch.

    On Tuesday, North Korea asserted its right to test-fire missiles in a statement to Japanese reporters in Pyongyang.

    "This issue concerns our autonomy. Nobody has a right to slander that right," the Kyodo News agency quoted North Korean Foreign Ministry official Ri Pyong Dok as saying.

    Kyodo also quoted Ri as saying the North is not bound by the joint declaration at international nuclear disarmament talks last year or a missile moratorium agreed to by Tokyo and Pyongyang in 2002. North Korean leader Kim Jong Il reaffirmed the moratorium — in place in practice since 1999 — in 2004.

    Ri told reporters his remarks represented Pyongyang's official line on the matter, but refused to comment on whether the North would push ahead with the missile test, saying it was inappropriate for a diplomat to give further information, Kyodo said.

    A pro-North Korean newspaper in Japan, Choson Sinbo, said Wednesday the launch of what it called a satellite could take place "anytime, which can be in a month or in a year." Over the weekend, Kyodo reported that North Korea plans to disguise the missile test as an attempt to put a satellite into orbit, as it did with the 1998 missile launch.

    The international campaign to block the launch widened Tuesday, with the French government and U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan calling for a halt to test preparations.

    "I hope that the leaders of North Korea will listen to and hear what the world is saying. We are all worried," said Annan, who was in Paris. He called for all parties in the standoff to avoid an escalation of tensions.

    French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, speaking after talks with Annan, said any North Korean missile test must draw a "firm and just" international response.

    China, North Korea's staunchest ally, urged calm.

    "We hope that under the current circumstances, relevant parties can do more in the interest of regional stability and peace," said Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu.

    Information on the test preparation remained scant and contradictory Tuesday. Especially unclear is whether Pyongyang has completed injecting fuel into the missile — a move some experts consider irreversible and a clear sign the country intends to launch.

    Japan's public broadcaster NHK reported that U.S. satellite images suggest the North was still fueling its missile. And a U.S. official in Washington, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Monday that U.S. intelligence indicated North Korea had finished fueling.

    However, Japan's Deputy Chief Cabinet Secretary Jinen Nagase said Japan could not confirm that fueling was complete. And South Korea's spy agency, the National Intelligence Service, believes North Korea hasn't finished because the 40 tanks seen around a launch site weren't enough to fuel a 65 ton missile, Yonhap news agency reported.

    South Korean Foreign Minister Ban Ki-moon said it appeared some rockets had been assembled, but the North's intentions were unclear. There were no reports of a launch by Tuesday evening, and the North is considered unlikely to launch at nighttime.

    Ban agreed in a phone conversation with his Japanese counterpart, Taro Aso, to cooperate to prevent a North Korean launch, Japan's Foreign Ministry said Tuesday.

    Amid the rising tensions, the United States staged war games near Guam in the western Pacific with 22,000 troops and three aircraft carriers. Commanders said the maneuvers were not aimed at any particular country.

    The test fears have been especially high in Japan, a firm U.S. ally with no diplomatic relations with Pyongyang. The two countries are at odds over the North's abduction of Japanese citizens, Pyongyang's nuclear weapons development and wartime grievances.

    The North's test of a long-range missile in 1998 shocked Japan and prompted it to accelerate work with Washington on a joint missile defense system.

    Washington also kept up the pressure on Pyongyang. The U.S. ambassador to South Korea conveyed the Bush administration's concerns to former South Korean President Kim Dae-jung, who was to meet North Korean leader Kim Jong Il next week, but postponed his trip to the North on Wednesday. The "trip has become difficult," said his aide, Jeong Se-hyun.


    All I can say is that if it gets to the point where we have to try to shoot down their missle, our 91 billion dollar system better work. Nothing would give them more confidence than to have our missle shield system flounder.
    Tom

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  4. #4
    Forum Member RLFD14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYSmokey
    All I can say is that if it gets to the point where we have to try to shoot down their missle, our 91 billion dollar system better work.
    Exactly what I was thinking. If it fails now we're screwed.

    And Mr. Wendt is right... a typical scenario: NK nukes us by surprise, GW does a typical knee-jerk reaction and nukes them right back, China percieves the nukes headed to NK as possibly actually headed to Beijing as a surprise pre-emptive move by us (this is the same rationale being floated to justify our own attempted shootdown of NK's missle) and thus China launches a full just-in-case retaliation. We shoot back. Boom baby. It's all done in just a few hours.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RLFD14
    Exactly what I was thinking. If it fails now we're screwed.

    And Mr. Wendt is right... a typical scenario: NK nukes us by surprise, GW does a typical knee-jerk reaction and nukes them right back, China percieves the nukes headed to NK as possibly actually headed to Beijing as a surprise pre-emptive move by us (this is the same rationale being floated to justify our own attempted shootdown of NK's missle) and thus China launches a full just-in-case retaliation. We shoot back. Boom baby. It's all done in just a few hours.
    I'm right. But I am not aligned with your faulty reasoning on this one.

    If we are "nuked by surprise", it would be a "typical knee jerk reaction" on the part of the President to launch a retailiatory strike?

    That is simply the single most idiotic statement ever made on these forums. Congratulations.

  6. #6
    Forum Member RLFD14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    I'm right. But I am not aligned with your faulty reasoning on this one.

    If we are "nuked by surprise", it would be a "typical knee jerk reaction" on the part of the President to launch a retailiatory strike?

    That is simply the single most idiotic statement ever made on these forums. Congratulations.
    You know, George, I've almost always enjoyed your posts, even when you've batted me down with your disagreements. I've still respected your opinion, and thanked you for it sincerely.

    I don't mind (or really care) that you find my reasoning faulty on this. I absolutely stand by my statement that immediately nuking NK in retaliation would be a bad idea. I laid out my case for why. Maybe you just didn't read it closely.

    But you know, your comments there - "single most idiotic" - are ten miles out of line and totally unprofessional. Respect is a two-way street.

    I think your worldwide broadcast on what you think of my comments say more about you than me. Perhaps you will remain proud of your slapdown, and if so, then "congratulations" back to you I guess.

    Still, I am honestly sad to see you behave that way. Stay safe.
    Last edited by RLFD14; 06-21-2006 at 06:51 PM.
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    All I can say is that if it gets to the point where we have to try to shoot down their missle, our 91 billion dollar system better work.

    At least for this situation (single missle "test" launch)...

    Do your best James Earl Jones imitation...and go, "That intercept missle did not miss the target, in fact it was never launched. And I was never here."

    I would doubt there are many countries capable of knowing of such a launch -- South Korea and Japan would certainly keep quiet about a failure; Russia and China I think would publicly be quiet too.

    A failure would not be a public embarrasment, at least until well down the road.

    NK nukes us by surprise, GW does a typical knee-jerk reaction and nukes them right back, China percieves the nukes headed to NK as possibly actually headed to Beijing as a surprise pre-emptive move by us (this is the same rationale being floated to justify our own attempted shootdown of NK's missle) and thus China launches a full just-in-case retaliation

    Um, not bloody likely.

    First and foremost, China's ability to hit us is relatively limited. No way in hell would their bomber penetrate our continental air defenses. They have relatively few ICBMs. And if they chose to launch those and then found out the U.S. Star Wars system is actually and truly operational...could find themselves in a hugely deep hole. Of course we might have another Revolution in the U.S. when the Wal*Mart shelfs are empty in the aftermath.

    The Chinese nuclear force is a much larger regional factor -- certainly their ability to hit countries like South Korea and Japan, as well as striking at U.S. Naval task forces is much, much more significant. You could see if a Sino-US war ever occured, their ability at tactical strikes against U.S. forces by nuclear weapons would be on the table.

    While I'm certainly no nuclear strategist, I can't see this warranting deployment of ICBMs from the Tridents or continental U.S. which would give them time to launch the theoretical "strike back."

    If there was a nuclear attack by North Korea, the response would likely be by cruise missle -- the ones carried by B-52s are slightly larger than the bomb used on Hiroshima. The ship/sub launched cruise missles I believe are a little bit less powerful.

    As much as many would snicker, there would be a political argument for using weapons of that size, "We exercised restraint -- we used weapons of similiar size to the North Korean weapon, as well as similiar in size to weapons previously used in war time. We did not open up with the much, much, much more powerful warheads we had available."

    Launched at a low elevation by a ship or a B-52 over the ocean, I doubt they'd even show up on China's air defense radars until they go boom.

    B-2 or B-52 Bombing runs are certainly also doable; and my guess is those might be the most likely because you'd have a longer window I'd assume to recall the attack. And in a bombing run, there would be no risk of China mistaking the intentions.

    And the reaction in any case would certainly not be knee-jerk -- I think it's quite safe to say U.S. foreign policy for some 50 years has been if we're hit by nuclear weapons the retalation will be massive and decisive. That's set policy, but it's not hard coded into our military to automatically respond (which is the definition of knee-jerk) but would be a political decision whether to execute on that policy.

    (As an aside, I caught last week part of the documentary made 2-3 years ago with MacNamara...got to get it on DVD! Anyway, he was relating how years later they learned of a conversation between Castro and Kruschev where Castro told Kruschev to go nuclear if Cuba was attacked...Kruschev replied Cuba would be wiped off the face of the earth...Castro replied he didn't care.)

    ===================
    I agree with George the situation is a sticky wicket.

    At least it's less of a wicket than the Cuban Missle Crisis, as you don't have the potential of immediate escalation in to full-out nuclear war; I can't see Russia exercising any kind of mutual defense pact with North Korea that pledged Russia to fire if North Korea was hit.

    Part of me would love to shoot the missle down --

    HOWEVER

    The big problem is it's a ballistic missle.

    The easiest and best way to shoot a ballistic missle down is on the way up.

    Once it's over it's apogee (I think that's the word...) it would probably release multiple warheads...or a warhead plus dummies to confuse the missle defense system.

    However, being ballastic means it can spend a lot of time over NK territory -- it's not like a cruise missle or something at a lower angle of attack that you can draw a line in the sand and say, "If it crosses this point, we will shoot it down."

    Maybe the missle people know better, and there is a way to "draw a line" past which you shoot...but it still must be a much tougher calculation that shooting down a plane or cruise missle.

    So I think the only thing left on the table is leave the implicit threat of Unilaterally Assured Destruction -- you can take out a city in Japan or the U.S. And faster than Dominoe's can deliver a pizza, your nation would cease to exist.
    Last edited by Dalmatian190; 06-21-2006 at 08:03 PM.

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    This space for rent NYSmokey's Avatar
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    Default Let the chess match begin

    North Korea launches missiles, US holds UN talks

    TOKYO (Reuters) - North Korea launched up to four missiles on Wednesday, including a long-range Taepodong 2 that appeared to fail in flight, a U.S. official and media reports said.

    A Pentagon official in Washington told Reuters two of the missiles launched by Stalinist and secretive North Korea appeared to have been small Scud-type models.

    Experts say the Taepodong 2 is a multi-stage missile with a possible range of 3,500 km to 4,300 km, which could put parts of Alaska in range -- the cause of U.S. concerns.

    A State Department official in Washington told Reuters a long-range missile, believed to be a Taepodong 2, failed 40 seconds after it was launched.

    Japan's Kyodo news agency quoted the Japanese defense ministry as saying North Korea could have fired four missiles in all.

    The U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, John Bolton, said the United States was "urgently consulting" other U.N. Security Council members about the North Korean missile launches. A White House spokeswoman said staff were in urgent consultations.

    President Bush and Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi had warned North Korea against test-firing a long-range missile.

    Last week, Bush echoed earlier U.S. threats of a harsh response if North Korea went ahead with such a launch. Koizumi said Japan would "apply various pressures" but declined to give details.

    Japanese NHK television said one missile landed in the Japan Sea 600 km (370 miles) from the Japanese mainland.

    No further details were immediately available.

    Experts say North Korea is developing long-range missiles to have the capability one day to deliver a nuclear bomb, but that Pyongyang is years away from having such a weapons system.

    The first time North Korea test-fired a long-range missile -- in 1998 over Japan -- it rattled financial markets and raised fears among the Japanese.

    North Korea said in February 2005 it possessed nuclear weapons. It has threatened to build up its nuclear arsenal several times since then in response to what it perceives as increased U.S. threats.

    U.S. officials said earlier an air force complex protecting the nerve center of U.S. homeland defense at Cheyenne Mountain, Colorado had been put on heightened alert amid persistent reports North Korea might test-fire a long-range missile.

    On Monday, Pyongyang vowed to respond with an "annihilating" nuclear strike if attacked pre-emptively by the United States.
    Tom

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    Forum Member RspctFrmCalgary's Avatar
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    Default A Canadian report ....

    N. Korea test launches long-range missile: reports
    Updated Tue. Jul. 4 2006 8:01 PM ET

    CTV.ca News Staff

    North Korea has test-launched a long-range missile believed to be capable of reaching parts of the U.S. -- but it failed after about 35 seconds, according to State Department officials.


    The missile was one of at least five fired early Wednesday morning local time, White House officials confirmed. They were unsure and could not confirm reports of a sixth missile being launched.


    The others are believed to be shorter-range missiles which the Japanese government said landed in the Sea of Japan, which lies between Japan and the Korean Peninsula.


    Reports say at least one of the shorter-range missiles was a Scud -- which could target South Korea -- while others were potentially Rodongs, which a carry a range of about 997 kilometres and could be used to target Japan.


    According to The Associated Press, Washington officials confirmed that the long-range missile was the Taepodong-2 -- said to be North Korea's most advanced missile with a range of about 15,000 km.


    Officials believe that North Korea had been preparing a test launch of the TD-2 on its northeast coast.


    "North Korea has gone ahead with the launch despite international protest," said Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary Shinzo Abe. "That is regrettable from the standpoint of Japan's security, the stability of international society, and non-proliferation of weapons of mass destruction."


    Han Song Ryol, deputy chief of North Korea's mission to the United Nations in New York, told The Associated Press in a telephone interview: "We diplomats do not know what the military is doing."


    U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton said American officials are "urgently consulting with members of the Security Council."


    Abe said the first short-range missile was launched at about 3:30 a.m. local time Wednesday (2:30 p.m. ET Tuesday) and crashed into the sea several minutes later. The two others were launched at about 4 a.m. and 5 a.m.


    The Japanese Defence Ministry confirmed news of a second missile, launched about 15 minutes later.


    The report comes on the same day the U.S. military announced that the North American Aerospace Defence Command (NORAD) facility at Cheyenne Mountain, Colo., has been put on heightened alert amid reports that North Korea could be set to test-fire a long-range missile.


    The U.S. has long warned North Korea against firing long-range missiles.


    News of North Korea's preparations to launch the Taepodong 2 sparked stern warnings from the U.S. and Japan -- both which threatened economic sanctions against the country.


    Both countries also stated that a test or launch of a TD-2 missile would violate the Japan-North Korea Pyongyang Declaration -- an agreement between North Korean Leader Kim Jong Il and Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi in which North Korea agreed not to test long-range missiles.


    White House reaction


    The White House called North Korea's decision to test-fire missiles "a provocation" -- but said it isn't an immediate threat to the United States.


    White House spokesperson Tony Snow also said U.S. President George Bush has been consulting with Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley.


    Meanwhile, a U.S. congressman said the matter needs to be dealt with diplomatically, with help from North Korea's neighbours, Russia and China.


    "The last thing we need to do is to direct some kind of military action, because a war with North Korea would not be a war like any that we've seen in recent years," U.S. Rep. Curt Weldon (R-Pa.), vice chairman of the House Armed Services and Homeland Security Committees, told CNN.


    "They have the fourth-largest army in the world, they have thousands of missiles that are all set up along the DMZ (Demilitarized Zone), and they also have capabilities of their ground forces."


    The situation became even more tense Monday when North Korea's main news agency quoted an unidentified newspaper analyst saying Pyongyang was prepared to answer a U.S. military attack with "a relentless annihilating strike and a nuclear war."


    The White House responded saying it had no intention of attacking North Korea, but it was determined to protect the U.S. if the country launched a long-range missile.


    With files from The Associated Press
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    I dunno. I always viewed DPRK as the crazy uncle in the attic. They're mostly harmless if you keep an eye on them.

    Eventually the whole place will fall apart. How many more have to die and who will pick up the pieces are the big questions.
    I am a highly trained professional and can find my :: expletive deleted:: with either hand in various light conditions.

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    So, basically all their missles broke down and flopped into the ocean. That's wonderful.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire
    So, basically all their missles broke down and flopped into the ocean. That's wonderful.
    Or did they plan to have them drop off in the Ocean as to not completely **** off and start a war as of yet but get some bargaining leverage.
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    Hmm BFD might have a point there. I also hear the conspiracy theory that the missle defence system was used to remove the rockets. I kinda found that thought line a bit interesting. Of course no one would ever admit to having done so, if it were true. And for me, it was just polite conversation.

    DonSmith made an interesting comment too, and I tend to agree for the most part. Mostly, I think I would prefer his idea as being the better part of something bad. Hopefully this whole series of events is nothing more than bully muscle flexing.
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    MembersZone Subscriber E229Lt's Avatar
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    If the USA is now the "World Police", does that make N Korea a perp?

    If so, how are police trained to respond if a perp pulls out a weapon?

    Granted, I mean after an LEO has made numerous demands for the perp to, "show me your hands".

    Any LEOs out there who could explain what their training teaches them?

    Is it something along the lines of center mass?

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    There was some commentary regarding this during the morning radio news. Something about the President of the UN saying, "Stop doing that, or I shall raise my hand and say "STOP" once more...."
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    Forum Member RspctFrmCalgary's Avatar
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    North Korea fires 7th missile amid global furor
    05/07/2006 9:41:49 AM

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    North Korea test-fired a seventh missile Wednesday, intensifying the global furor ignited when the reclusive regime launched a series of missiles the day before.


    CTV.ca News Staff





    North Korea is facing global condemnation for test-firing a series of missiles, including one thought to be capable of reaching the United States.

    The seven missiles included a long-range Taepodong-2, which Washington said failed shortly after take-off.

    The missiles, all of which apparently fell harmlessly into the Sea of Japan, triggered the convening of an emergency meeting of the United Nations Security Council and calls in Tokyo for economic sanctions against the impoverished communist regime.

    "We are urgently consulting with members of the Security Council," John Bolton, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, told reporters Wednesday.

    The U.S. called the tests "provocative", while South Korea, Australia and Russia expressed concern.

    China also expressed serious concern, but urged calm and restraint from all sides.

    Meanwhile, Tokyo said it would ban the entry of North Korean officials, chartered flights and a ferry.

    Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi said Pyongyang gained "nothing from such an act", but said continued dialogue was necessary to defuse the standoff.

    Japanese and South Korean military are on high alert, and share prices have fallen in both countries.

    Defiant

    North Korea, however, remained defiant Wednesday and a North Korea foreign ministry official told Japanese journalists in Pyongyang that the regime there has an undeniable right to test missiles.

    "The missile launch is an issue that is entirely within our sovereignty. No one has the right to dispute it," Ri Pyong Dok, a researcher on Japanese affairs at the North's Foreign Ministry, said on footage aired by TBS. "On the missile launch, we are not bound by any agreement."

    Japanese national broadcaster NHK reported that an unidentified Foreign Ministry official in Pyongyang acknowledged the firing of the missiles, but Ri told reporters that diplomats like himself are unaware of what the military is doing.

    After making a protest via telephone to North Korea's ambassador to Canberra, Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said Pyongyang could test additional missiles soon despite the international furor.

    "We think they probably do intend to launch more missiles in the next day or two," Downer told reporters, without explaining if the possibility of more tests came up in his telephone conversation.

    South Korea, separated from the North by the world's most heavily armed border, said the test launches would further deepen its neighbour's international isolation, sour public opinion in the South toward Pyongyang and hurt efforts to control weapons of mass destruction.

    Washington

    The tests, which came as the United States celebrated the Fourth of July and launched the space shuttle Discovery from Cape Canaveral, appeared timed to draw the most attention from Washington.

    U.S. intelligence reports indicated Pyongyang was taking steps to prepare for a launch, but the timing was unknown. North Korea had repeatedly refused to confirm the preparations, but insisted it had the right to such a test.

    Two U.S. State Department officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity to the Associated Press, said the long-range missile was the Taepodong-2, North Korea's most advanced missile with a range of up to 15,000 kilometres. Some experts believe it could reach the United States.

    The missiles all landed hundreds of miles away from Japan and there were no reports the missiles caused damage within Japanese territory, said Japanese spokesman Shinzo Abe. He said the first missile was launched at about 3:30 a.m. Wednesday, or about 2:30 p.m. Tuesday ET.

    North Korea's missile program is based on Scud technology provided by the former Soviet Union or Egypt, according to American and South Korean officials. North Korea started its Rodong-1 missile project in the late 1980s and test-fired the missile for the first time in 1993.

    The United States and its allies South Korea and Japan have taken quick steps over the past week to strengthen their missile defences. Washington and Tokyo are working on a joint missile-defence shield and South Korea is considering the purchase of American SM-2 defensive missiles for its destroyers.

    The U.S. and North Korea have been in a standoff over Pyongyang's nuclear weapons program since 2002. Experts, however, doubt the regime has managed to develop a nuclear warhead small enough to mount on its long-range missiles.

    With files from the Associated Press
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    I'd be scared but all of the crap I have ever owned that was korean has fallen apart in about five minutes. If i were them I would be worried about launching a Kia explotage (I imagine thats what they are called) cause its probably gonna land on them. Ayyeeeeee!

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    Quote Originally Posted by E229Lt
    If the USA is now the "World Police", does that make N Korea a perp?

    If so, how are police trained to respond if a perp pulls out a weapon?

    Granted, I mean after an LEO has made numerous demands for the perp to, "show me your hands".

    Any LEOs out there who could explain what their training teaches them?

    Is it something along the lines of center mass?
    It tells you first and foremost to understand what type of situation you are getting into and do alot of investigation and intel work while you are developing a tactical plan. Rmember, this is not a street encounter. This is a criminal enterprise that is a continual operation.

    I believe that the erason we held off on an attack is that we had intelligence that while the N. Koreans had missiles in position and intended to fire them, the N. Koreans lacked the technological expertise to hit a bull in the *** with a snow shovel.

    Making a pre-emptive strike was probably not necesary-and that is a good thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MalahatTwo7
    Hmm BFD might have a point there. I also hear the conspiracy theory that the missle defence system was used to remove the rockets. I kinda found that thought line a bit interesting. Of course no one would ever admit to having done so, if it were true. And for me, it was just polite conversation.
    Now Malahat, you wouldn't be suggesting that the Airborne Laser System is further along than has been reported in the media?

    All kidding aside, the thing probably just broke up - it happens to rockets all the time BUT if someone wanted to do a real world test of the ABL, they would be very hard pressed to find a better opportunity. Not only is this the exact scenario for which the platform was designed, but the political circumstances couldn't be better. If you miss with an invisible laser beam, no harm would be done, unlike what would happen if you missed with a highly visible ground or sea based interceptor launch. If you score a kill, even better. You validate the system and also get to drive the NKs crazy as they try to figure out what went wrong.

    For anyone interested, here's a cnet story on laser weapons.

  20. #20
    Forum Member BFDNJFF's Avatar
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    Sharks with fricking Laser beams !
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