Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Central Jersey via Brooklyn
    Posts
    129

    Default Removing The Deceased

    Third time in a year we have been called to ďassist PD with a lift assistĒ
    The first one was a DOA about 350 Lbs. 2 weeks old on the second floor. The ME had him bagged. All we had to do was drag him into the stokes hook him up to the basket on our tower ladder, move a cable TV wire and lower away.
    Next came a gent that fell into the river, head first into 5 Ď of iced over water from a bar parking lot. We had dry suites went in put him in the stokes and dragged him up the bank.
    Today a guy falls off his 2nd story deck, through the roof of his shed and is stuck with his feet sticking out. He is also DOA. We use the saws-all cut away the wreckage and remove him.
    We are a NJ vollie FD, donít do EMS and run 150 calls a year. Iíve been in 16 years and never had this happen before. Anyone have an SOP for this ??


  2. #2
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    an SOP for what ? you cant make them any deader .......remove them and be done with it. For a buck 50 in runs per year is it killin ya ?
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Weruj1
    an SOP for what ? you cant make them any deader .......remove them and be done with it. For a buck 50 in runs per year is it killin ya ?
    I don't know abou that. In the Wizard of Oz, didn't the coroner make the Witch (not one of the Jersey Girls) "quite completely dead"?

    Good post.

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rfdlou
    Third time in a year we have been called to ďassist PD with a lift assistĒ
    The first one was a DOA about 350 Lbs. 2 weeks old on the second floor. The ME had him bagged. All we had to do was drag him into the stokes hook him up to the basket on our tower ladder, move a cable TV wire and lower away.
    Next came a gent that fell into the river, head first into 5 Ď of iced over water from a bar parking lot. We had dry suites went in put him in the stokes and dragged him up the bank.
    Today a guy falls off his 2nd story deck, through the roof of his shed and is stuck with his feet sticking out. He is also DOA. We use the saws-all cut away the wreckage and remove him.
    We are a NJ vollie FD, donít do EMS and run 150 calls a year. Iíve been in 16 years and never had this happen before. Anyone have an SOP for this ??
    In NJ, it is a crime for anyone to move a dead body w/o the authorization of the ME (NJS 2C:22-1). When you go to one of these jobs, you are only there for the muscle and the toys. Follow good general forensic procedures, make sure all personnel who will come into contact with the body are protected against fluids and follow the directions of the ME or the ME investigator.

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    1,017

    Default

    An SOP would be specific to your department, i.e. who calls the FD, does an officer make a decision to respond, what apparatus responds, etc. Other than that, George has good advice-you are there working for the ME, it is not a fire or ems incident. Do a risk assessment on the situation-don't get hurt removing a dead body. Protect the dignity of the deceased and be mindful of the grief of the family.
    Last edited by KenNFD1219; 06-27-2006 at 08:57 PM.
    -------------------
    "The most mediocre man or woman can suddenly seem dynamic, forceful, and decisive if he or she is mean enough." from "Crazy Bosses"
    -----------------------------------------------
    Genius has its limits, but stupidity is boundless.

  6. #6
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....
    Posts
    10,739

    Thumbs up Well................

    Ken pretty well covered it. We do stuff like that here on a regular basis, so we have no problems, but I can't help wondering why a SOP is needed. Somebody calls 911, we go to work. Instantly. No matter what the job is. On the other hand, Except for the cops who handle Knives and Guns, we do it all. And I do mean ALL. Even the Bomb Squad is a FD operation here, as well as Hazmat, EMS of all kinds, Rescue, Etc.
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

  7. #7
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    And gill grisom will be there with his luminol to solve the crime with the spray of a bottle.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber E229Lt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Posts
    2,987

    Default

    No ma yiab mayn

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Central Jersey via Brooklyn
    Posts
    129

    Default

    Just havin some fun with the crazy stuff that happens on this job. We get called out for something like this. We show up. Take a look around, yep they need assistance. The Officers huddle up, come up and with a plan. The engineers tell them it wonít work. Plan gets revised. We get ďItĒ done in front of 50 spectators on the street. Adapt and overcome. More fun than my real job

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Loco madidus effercio in rutilus effercio.
    Posts
    12,833

    Default

    I did two of those with Malahat. First one was a woodcutter who got his head stuck in the hydraulics of his wood processor. Coroner figured he'd been there about 24hrs before some hikers found him. Needed a car jack to lift the armature off his head. Funny thing is, other than his head being a bit conehead shaped in the end, there was skin damage.

    Second was a fatal MVA. Cops released us after we got things cleaned up, then about 45 min or so later, called our Rescue back to help the Coroner lift the remains from the vehicle he was still trapped in. Not a solid structure in that body.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

  11. #11
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....
    Posts
    10,739

    Talking And.............

    Lou, I just remembered a minor item (Man, it's hell gettin' old) We have, when needed, strung a rope between two trees, a tree and a Engine, etc. and hung a tarp or two up as a curtain to maintain a bit of privacy as we worked. Not that spectators bother me, just a way to maintain a bit of dignity while operating. There was one minor problem with that. Only Once. A teenager kept lifting a corner of the tarp, until a Cop grabbed him, dragged him over to the wrecked car that we were cutting on, and made him get a good look. Fixed that one.
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    355

    Default

    And the news helos trying to get a shot behind the tarp. I've been to scenes that looked like the Air Cav was inbound.

  13. #13
    IACOJ BOD FlyingKiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,757

    Default

    George or Harve

    Can either of you help this young fella with this SOP thing?

    Does that mean Same Old Problem?

    or

    Some Other Problem?

    or

    Shyte, Oops, Poo.

    Those famous last words.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

  14. #14
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....
    Posts
    10,739

    Thumbs up Not Exactly........

    Here, we do not have an incident-specific SOP for something like this. If we have to "recover" a body, we try to work in the same manner that we would for a rescue, except that we move somewhat slower, in order to prevent any additional problems arising from unnecessary haste. As I said before (I think) Dignity and Respect are at the top of the list. In today's world of instant communication, family is arriving at Accident scenes more often, and doing so a lot faster. In turn, our actions, or lack thereof, are under more scrutiny than ever before. One thing that I have noticed is that we are being thanked for our help somewhat more often, due to family and/or friends being there and realizing who is doing what.
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    I agree. It is almost impossible to write specific SOP's for this. A general procedure of acting like professionals and assisting the ME in accomplishing his goals with the assets and resources the FD brings to the table is the best approach.

  16. #16
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,154

    Default

    In today's world of instant communication, family is arriving at Accident scenes more often,

    That jogged my memory of many moons ago (I was in college...took the wrong day to play hokey...)

    Hired hand killed by a corn chopper -- he reached down for the oil can before heading to the main farm for lunch, his foot got sucked in my a belt and one leg and half his torso where zipped through the machine.

    We did hold the ambulance at the entrance to the field -- already had 2 EMTs on the scene and where in the process of going through the formal steps of presumption (this was before CT included transection of the torso as a presumption criteria...so I'm there friggin' documenting there is no heart beat for a minute, no breaths for minute...)

    While waiting for a funeral home to show up (they often handle ME transports in our area), the family showed up -- the officer kind of figured it out real quick (there wasn't going to be any casual bystanders in the middle of nowhere that we were) and hustled to intercept them to brief them before they saw the body -- it was disturbing certainly, and he wanted to make sure they understood that and made a concious decision to view it, rather than just rushing in.

    Once the State Police where done, we removed the body (one of our members was relatively familiar with that line of John Deere equipment...still, we took our time to figure out which control did what as we basically put it in reverse to free the body).

    Brought an engine into the scene to wash the equipment down so the owner wouldn't have to, and then in what I think is the single most surreal thing I've seen in the department, our member who knew that equipment kind of shrugged and drove the tractor around chopping corn for a couple passes, blowing it out into the field to clean out the internals of the machine. Ya can't write a SOP for that!

    You can though write a simple guideline that reminds members to be respectful, minimize personnel to only those needed to accomplish the job (no JAFO* "firefighters"), go slow and think out what you're doing since there is no rush, and coordinate actions with the Police & Coroner.

    *JAFO = Just Another Fracking Onlooker.

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber Halligan84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Blackwood NJ, USA
    Posts
    816

    Default

    http://arago4.tnw.utwente.nl/stonede...il/ra/02-01.ra

    We used to just pull up and yell this, didn't work out for us

  18. #18
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....
    Posts
    10,739

    Talking Huh??..........

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    I agree.
    Now THAT is Scary......

    Best Wishes for a safe and Happy Holiday George.
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Teaneck Firefighters removing helmet stickers etc.
    By Salman1 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-26-2005, 09:53 AM
  2. Deceased Firefighter - Number retirement by radio
    By PBenthall in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 03-31-2005, 01:52 PM
  3. Removing Placards from Railcars
    By cellblock in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-09-2005, 07:08 PM
  4. Removing battery power?
    By arhaney in forum University of Extrication
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 11-14-2004, 06:22 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-26-2003, 07:23 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts