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Thread: Overweight???

  1. #1
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    Default Overweight???

    Anyone think this truck is a little overweight? Im surprised that they even built it.
    I can't imagine how much it would weigh full of equipment.

    Oh and with 310hp it must go up a hill as fast as molasas in January

    http://www.customfire.com/d_mobilewa...=444e97de25471


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    Not sure if it's overweight. That truck weighs 41,700 lbs. We have a 75' aerial ladder truck that has a GVW of 51,000 lbs on a single axel w/ 300 hp engine. It's heavy but does us well. Not sure if ours is over weight. Is that your departments truck?

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    Forum Member bfranse's Avatar
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    Its only over weight if the streets & bridges that it may respond in are under weight.

    HP isn't every thing, transmission, axle type & axle ratio also matter.

    Speed kills alot of firefighters every year.
    We're not spliting rocket hairs here people!

    Training is like building a pyramid, if you want it to last, you don't built it pointy side down!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bfranse

    Speed kills alot of firefighters every year.
    So do ill designed trucks...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    I start to get shaky when I see more than 1000 gallons on a single rear axle, so I have to be really concerned about this one. Strictly speaking, if the right axles are put under it, it can work. But does Minnesota enforce axle, gross weight and bridge laws on fire apparatus? If so, they might have a problem. My biggest concern would be having enough brakes to stop it (remember single axle Aerialscopes?). I don't know the area where the tanker is, but I do recall that much of Minnesota is flatland. To me, that would be the saving grace, both for the brakes and for the engine.

    Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!

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    Forum Member bfranse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo
    So do ill designed trucks...
    I don't remember reading that as a cause in any of the NIOSH reports...
    We're not spliting rocket hairs here people!

    Training is like building a pyramid, if you want it to last, you don't built it pointy side down!

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    I Saw this truck while browsing their website. I imagine with equipement it would be closer to 43k lbs. It just seems like a lot of weight on a single rear axle.
    I know Hp is not everything,but torque is. Hp and torque are proportional. It seems like a small engine for so much weight.
    It would be interesting to see how close to max GVWR the truck is as well as each axle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefengineer11
    I start to get shaky when I see more than 1000 gallons on a single rear axle, so I have to be really concerned about this one. Strictly speaking, if the right axles are put under it, it can work. But does Minnesota enforce axle, gross weight and bridge laws on fire apparatus? If so, they might have a problem. My biggest concern would be having enough brakes to stop it (remember single axle Aerialscopes?). I don't know the area where the tanker is, but I do recall that much of Minnesota is flatland. To me, that would be the saving grace, both for the brakes and for the engine.

    Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!
    We have a Mack / Baker Aerialscope 75' on a single rear axle , 5 speed manual trans, and don't have any problem braking . I like the newer scopes with the tandem rear axle to carry more weight!...

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    I run a water tender with 3000 gallons and 350 HP, manual transmission, it's not all that bad but it's no race car either. Of course it has 3 axles also. Around here you can go 20,000 on a regular truck and 24,000 on one fire apparatus axle. So if they balanced that right they could get 17,000 on the front and 24,700 on the rear and still be within manufacturer's ratings probably.

    But I agree it is #*$ stupid to spec it that way, what moron came up with that. For one thing another axle gets you another large set of brakes and that in itself is worth it with that heavy of a truck. All it will take is one heavy stop with that truck and you will already be looking at the beginnings of brake fade.

    Birken

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    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfranse
    I don't remember reading that as a cause in any of the NIOSH reports...
    Many cash strapped departments convert fuel oil tankers to water tankers.

    Diesel/home heating oil weighs an average of 7.1 pounds per gallon, while water is 8.3 per gallon.

    The difference in a 2500 gallon tanker is 3000 pounds.

    Can the rig be driven safely by a competent operator?
    Probably.

    Is the vehicle overweight by DOT standards?
    Damn skippy!

    If the rig is involved in a fatal accident, will their be a wrongful death suit?

    As Curley Howard of the Three Stooges would say...

    Soitenly!
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 06-29-2006 at 12:09 AM. Reason: proper punctuation
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    I think they've got a lot of weight far enough over the rear axle to shift some of the balance on to the front axle. By IH's site, one can get a 7400 chassis with a Meritor 26,000# rear axle. Front's can go up to 20K.

    The DT570 is also the bigger of IH's medium duty engines. Geared properly and with a decent torque rating, it may do okay. The info I see shows the 310HP DT with 950 lb-ft of torque.

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    I assumed that it would have a 31k rear axle. If it only had a 26k rear, and a 20k front that would put it just a little more than 3k under max gross. That seems too close to me.
    I would want a bigger "cushion" for my GVWR.

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    Our tanker is a 2000 gallon tank on a single rear axle. However, it's only a 500 GPM pump and only one lowside compartment on each side. Not nearly as many compartments, and thus equipment, as this truck. From what I have seen, a tanker with that many compartments and equipment would be limited to an 1800 gallon tank.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo
    Many cash strapped departments convert fuel oil tankers to water tankers.

    Diesel/home heating oil weighs an average of 7.1 pounds per gallon, while water is 8.3 per gallon.

    The difference in a 2500 gallon tanker is 3000 pounds.

    Can the rig be driven safely by a competent operator?
    Probably.

    Is the vehicle overweight by DOT standards?
    Damn skippy!

    If the rig is involved in a fatal accident, will their be a wrongful death suit?

    As Curley Howard of the Three Stooges would say...

    Soitenly!

    You are correct that a competent operator could drive it safely. A competent operator can drive anything safely. If my tender had only the front axle brakes working I could still drive safely...mind you I probably wouldn't go much over 20 mph on the flat, and 5 or 10 downhill.

    One thing I forgot to mention is I don't think you will find any brakes that are rated for that kind of load per axle. 24,000 is about the max IIRC. In that case a successful wrongful death suit becomes a distinct possibility.

    Birken

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    how much more could another axel have cost? sure they would lose some compartment space, but with that chassis, the truck could be a little longer. seems silly to me--sure it might work in your town--but what ifyou sent for mutal aid and cracked a bridge? that and i think that much weight on two axels would put undue stress and sag on the body.

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