View Poll Results: Can a deck gun breach a wall?

Voters
21. You may not vote on this poll
  • If the bricks are old?

    3 14.29%
  • If the wall is not too thick?

    6 28.57%
  • If the building has undergone structural damage?

    9 42.86%
  • If the rig is sufficiently close to the building?

    3 14.29%
  1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    4

    Default Can a deck gun breach a wall?

    I get a lot of yes and no responses on this question: Can a high-pressure stream from a deck gun take out a brick wall? Some guys say that it would crack and dislodge bricks, chewing up the mortar. Other guys say no way.

  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    608

    Default

    Yes and No!

    I know there are some instances where the master stream can dislodge and throw bricks. Some years ago I had bricks rain down on me that were dislodged from a master stream.

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,702

    Default

    If you throw the deck gun hard enough, it should move a brick or two.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    RyanEMVFD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    Why? It's not like you're going to visit me! But I'm near Waco, Texas
    Posts
    2,386

    Default

    Seen one knock over a soda machine.
    NREMT-P\ Reserve Volunteer Firefighter\Reserve Police Officer
    IACOJ Attack

    Experts built the Titanic, amateurs built the Ark.

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber
    mcaldwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Panorama, British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    3,022

    Default

    Not a good solid wall, but an old rotting tenament structure, definitely. It would most likely pick away at it though, not just cause a huge blowout.

    That's a tough batch of selections on your poll though, because it is probaby all of the above. Lots of variables there such as; Pump, stream, distance, wind, wall (brick and mortar), underlying structure, damage levels, etc...
    Last edited by mcaldwell; 07-24-2006 at 04:23 PM.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

    IACOJ

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Somewhere cold in MI
    Posts
    401

    Default It depends

    If the sturcture is old and still has Sand-lime mortar any water applied has the ability to bring down the wall and anything attached. Sand-lime mortar was used until the the early 20th century and when water is applied it dissolves the mortar between the bricks. Most of the walls that have this in it will be load-bearing. If you are putting it through a second story or higher window you need to consider that water weighs 8.33 pounds per gallon and if you flow 250 GPM you will add 1 ton of weight that the already weak floor needs to support. The answers given on the survey aren't really specific enough. If you need to use a master stream use caution and evaluate the structure to see if it can handle it. Look for:
    leaning walls
    weird sounds
    those star reinforcing bars telling you the building is already weak.
    general age of building
    load on it, (safe, industrial fridge, any heavy loads on it.)
    just my look on things
    J

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    All the above is the correct answer to the poll,.......I didnt vote because any of them can cause a deck gun to collapse a wall.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  8. #8
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    4

    Default Thanks, guys.

    I appreciate all the responses so far, but yours especially MCFD45. You solved a challenging problem I had. I am greatly in you debt.

  9. #9
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,154

    Default

    The correct answer:

    If you're using a master stream, you shouldn't be in the collapse zone so it doesn't really matter anyway.

    Ok, so maybe that was the smartass answer...it's late, I'm punchy

    All the above are reasonable.

    Not that I'm the most experienced in the world with masonry buildings, but the ones I've seen (mill fires) seem to be the heavy timbers finally collapse inwards weakening the structure...after which the master streams may incidentally chip away at them, but the fire / interior structural collapses are the bigger factor.

  10. #10
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    20

    Default

    I've knocked two hose teams down with a deck gun b/c the walls gave way....

    The object of using a smoothbore stacker w/ a 1.5" opening at 1,000 GPM was to penetrate what the hose team w/ a 3" line and a smoothbore couldn't. I was trying to tear apart hay bails, as it wasn't safe to enter, and we declared a surround and drown. The stream deflected off metal roofing, popped boards off the outter walls, and knocked the two crews over. The water did, not the boards. Not my fault... I couldn't see the metal in the smoke.

    The second time, it was a structure, not safe to enter, fire was burning in the kitchen, under the contents of the second floor. We were using a 15' pike to pull crap out, and decided to use the stacked smoothbore to penetrate w/ water, then when it was all thrown around, flood the place with foam. The water went in, through a refrigerator, and out the exterior wall. Knocked the foam guy down. Can't plan for that..

    So, I suppose, if the wall is weak or damaged enough, it will either give way, or the fire stream will punch through it.
    Last edited by EMT257; 07-30-2006 at 11:15 PM.

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Somewhere cold in MI
    Posts
    401

    Default

    Even the guy at Dennys knows a thing or 2. Glad to help you out.

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber
    E229Lt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Posts
    2,987

    Default

    We've used many a master stream to knock down a suspect wall. Often, by causing the feared collapse we can get back to work.

  13. #13
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    2,503

    Default

    We sometime use guns from tower ladders to demolish whats left of a building after the fire is knocked. They dont seem to have much trouble knocking down walls.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

  14. #14
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    64

    Default

    Almost hate to go here but......2000 GPM's from a 1" open tip...wow

  15. #15
    55 Years & Still Rolling
    hwoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....
    Posts
    10,740

    Talking And................

    Quote Originally Posted by Weruj1
    All the above is the correct answer to the poll,.......I didnt vote because any of them can cause a deck gun to collapse a wall.
    I know, I know, A Scary Thought, BUT, I agree with Weruj1. Now it will probably Snow tomorrow......
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

  16. #16
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    275

    Default

    Yea I second that... a 1" tip at 2000 GPM...not posible.

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber
    britfan1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wag11c
    Yea I second that... a 1" tip at 2000 GPM...not posible.

    Maybe it was RRRLW (Really Really Really Light Water)

    I could see all of the choices occuring, given the proper circumstances. I've also seen deck guns used for hydraulic overhaul and wall removal a few times, especially in the older sections of Petersburg where older masonry buildings are quite common. While I've never seen an entire wall brought down by a deck gun, they'll take out good sized sections of a standing, unsupported wall very effectively
    ...South of the James...By Invitation Only!

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    tbonetrexler's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Magnolia, Delaware US
    Posts
    527

    Default

    Ive seen a deck gun knock over a chimmney once. It took awhile and some manuevering by the operator to get the chimney swaying enough to tumble. At the same burn, the gun knocked over a wall, but i think it was wooden.
    Do a little dance, make a little rum, Italian Ice! Italian Ice!

    Actual lyric: Do a little dance, make a little love, get down tonight, get down tonight.
    (KC & The Sunshine Band "Do A Little Dance")

    My thoughts are mine alone and do not represent the thoughts of any Organization to which I am affiliated.

  19. #19
    FIREMAN 1st GRADE
    E40FDNYL35's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Malingering
    Posts
    3,644

    Default

    Can a deck gun breach a wall?
    yes....

    we use hydraulic overhaul often
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

  20. #20
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wag11c
    Yea I second that... a 1" tip at 2000 GPM...not posible.
    Not possible, either. Because it's a Typo.

  21. #21
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    14

    Talking

    Sure, a 3", 5" and especially a 16" US Navy Deck Gun can breach even the toughest walls! They do little to douse the ensuing fires though.

  22. #22
    MembersZone Subscriber
    npfd801's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Somewhere in Illinois
    Posts
    2,223

    Default

    I did a chimney once, like someone else has seen. They do a great job removing the shingles from a house and blowing them into the rear neighbor's yard too.

    Then there was the one time with a 2-1/2 and a port-o-potty, but that's a whole different subject.

    But the question is pretty tough to answer. I've even seen old leaded stained glass windows hold up to a deck gun for quite some time. Of course it was the bar burning across from my apartment while in college, and I have no idea what pressure they were using. Was interesting nonetheless.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. SOP's for Volunteer FD
    By rumlfire in forum Volunteer Forum
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 08-01-2006, 11:35 PM
  2. Thermal Imaging SOG's
    By wtfd92 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 06-27-2001, 09:41 PM
  3. RFP's
    By D Littrell in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-08-2000, 07:36 PM
  4. Ideas on deploying a portable deck gun
    By Sparkill Fire dept in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-08-1999, 11:18 PM
  5. Looking for a new way to deploy the portable deck gun
    By Sparkill Fire dept in forum The Engineer
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-06-1999, 11:33 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register