1. #26
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    Ok, Thanks. STAY SAFE!!!

  2. #27
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    Cap:

    Thanks for the clarification! I did forget the maul (sledge) and it is a great tool, I need to add that to my list.

    My favorite standard house fire is a molotov cocktail through the front picture window because it burns hot, fast and usually has a pretty good head start. Nobody like to go to a fire with only one room going!

    rfd599
    www.IllinoisFireStore.com

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF
    A couple of heron users...

    Man, that stuff is bad for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF
    ...on the third floor of a three flat...
    Is that the same as a triple decker? I asked in this thread , but I never got an answer.

  4. #29
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    Default heron users

    thats funny i don't care who you are.
    J

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcaldwell
    I don't think they are suggesting using the water stream, as that would be a recipe for a serious kick in the ***, but rather the rigid hose line with the nozzle as the battering ram.

    There is no reason it wouldn't work, as the hose is both heavy and rigid if applied straight and level with a rapid motion.

    I don't know that I would want my guys using a new $1500.00 automatic to do it though (at least when there is a haligan on the truck). But hey, another tool in the box...
    It may be another idea to consider but like you said" New $1500 automatic"....
    Anyone suggesting using a nozzle of any price as a battering ram should try it first and then tell the rest of us how it worked out,when he showed the jury rigged FE tool to his officer.
    I don't know how I could justify beating the tar out of a nozzle to open a door when even a hose team should carry an axe or hallagan to open doors so's we could spray water into the fire.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF
    A couple of heron users ....
    Local dialect for heroin. Maybe it doesn't translate around the rest of the country.......

    Three flat = three story building, 20 ft wide (usually, standard Chicago lot is 25x125), three separate units - one per floor
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

  7. #32
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    It is like a "soft battering ram".

    You are not going to smash down big heavy doors but it will help you when you are on your knees and works good if you have two people on the line.

  8. #33
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    ok..well just to add fuel over here, I have in fact used a nozzle as a FE tool, and well, it turned out just fine. Heaven didn't burn, Hell didn't freeze over, I didn't break a 1500 dollar nozzle and the door opened just fine. Keep in mind, it was a cheaper wood slab residental front door. but hey, what the hell..
    The good thing about this job is that we have done so much, with so little, for so long that we can do everything with nothing...... which is what is wrong with this job.
    KTF | DTRT

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    Is a "soft battering ram" in the same category as a "dark light beer" and "jumbo shrimp"?

  10. #35
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    The quickest way to force an inward-swinging door is to kick it in or use a battering ram. Forcing them with an axe and halligan takes too much time in my opinion and usually requires more than one try. Rabbit tools are great, but they are great for doors set in metal jambs. When you use the rabbit tool on a wood frame door, the stop ends up failing before the door is forced open the most of the time.

  11. #36
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    Default Wow!

    A battering ram? I have one on our Rescue and that is where it sits. It is too heavy and very limited in use. Too much time to use a axe or bar? How about training with the tool to know what it takes and how long it will take to force the door. Residential doors can be forced using technique and a little bit of a** put behind the bar. A properly trained Firefighter with a Halligan bar can force a door with ease. You bring your batterring ram, I'll bring my Pro-Bar. Rabbit Tools are for commercial doors, and arent meant to be used on wood frame doors. Can they be used for inward residential doors, sure but how about a Halligan. What about "try before you pry".

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    You're telling me that one firefighter can easily force a residential dead-bolted door in a rabbeted jamb with just a halligan? You must have some real Hulk Hogans on your department.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdurkin44
    You're telling me that one firefighter can easily force a residential dead-bolted door in a rabbeted jamb with just a halligan? You must have some real Hulk Hogans on your department.

    Im willing to bet that EVERY member of my dept. can force a residential deadbolted door with just a halligan. And I think many on these forums can say the same.

    And how exactly do you plan on controlling the door after you've rammed it with your battering ram? If you force the door, with no hoseline ready yet, and cant control the door, then what? If the public hallway in a MD isnt that charged, most of us wont put on our facepiece until we have forced the door. After we force it, we CONTROL it, and mask up. Without control of the door, you just decreased anyone's chances of survival inside that door, and if you are in a apt complex, you just put everyone trying to evacuate from above the fire in harms way.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdurkin44
    You're telling me that one firefighter can easily force a residential dead-bolted door in a rabbeted jamb with just a halligan? .
    Yupe...that's what he is saying.....and I can second it.
    IACOJ Member

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdurkin44
    You're telling me that one firefighter can easily force a residential dead-bolted door in a rabbeted jamb with just a halligan? You must have some real Hulk Hogans on your department.
    Am I missing something here?

    A good mule kick will take most residential doors, so why wouldn't a halligan work? The halligan is under used. Many times you won't even damage the door or the frame if you work it right.

    With the inward moving doors, I think I lay down a little damage, even if I use a semi-gentle method with the halligan.

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    Please describe the procedure you would use to force an inward-swinging, dead bolted residential door with just a halligan.

    Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdurkin44
    Please describe the procedure you would use to force an inward-swinging, dead bolted residential door with just a halligan.

    Thank you.
    Adze end near the lock. Push the tongs towards the door.
    Fir Na Tine
    Fir Na Au Saol

  18. #43
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    Default Info for Forcible Entry

    Hey if you would like info, give me your email and I will send you lots of files.

  19. #44
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    In swinging doors are more of a pain than out swinging doors but one person still can force it with just a halligan if you use the right method. When the lock is on the right side you swing the pick of the halligan into the jam near the lock then push the adz against the door forcefully down and away from you. If the lock is on the left side you swing the adz into the jam near the lock then forcefully push the pick against the door down and away from you. It does require quite a bit of force. Ideally you would want 2 people forcing an in swinging door but it can be done with one person. And sometimes it may require more than one try. Rabbit tools are not meant to be used on wood frame doors.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by capt4704
    Hey if you would like info, give me your email and I will send you lots of files.

    Hey CAPT!!! send over whatever you want to pass along to the next generation.....

    staylow@comcast.net
    The good thing about this job is that we have done so much, with so little, for so long that we can do everything with nothing...... which is what is wrong with this job.
    KTF | DTRT

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