Thread: Why diesel?

  1. #51
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    Its an old thread...but I took some heat for my posts in it. And today I decided I need to clear my name.

    https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/non-html/Q-179.pdf

    I said a V10 was a viable option in an ambulance prep package. I was told it wasn't. Ford now thinks its OK.

    Its probably because they will run out of 6.0L's to put in ESeries trucks since they cancelled their Navistar contracts to build their own diesel. But the 6.7L won't be going into the vans right away. Who knows when?

    Anyhow...I predicted it could be done. Now it is.
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    Interesting.

  3. #53
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    And again...NO I'm not against diesels. I own a D250 Dodge Cummins and a Chevy HD2500 Duramax 4x4.
    Assistant Chief

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by fpvfd502 View Post
    Its an old thread...but I took some heat for my posts in it. And today I decided I need to clear my name.

    https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/non-html/Q-179.pdf

    I said a V10 was a viable option in an ambulance prep package. I was told it wasn't. Ford now thinks its OK.

    Its probably because they will run out of 6.0L's to put in ESeries trucks since they cancelled their Navistar contracts to build their own diesel. But the 6.7L won't be going into the vans right away. Who knows when?

    Anyhow...I predicted it could be done. Now it is.
    2 Years ago gas engine was not an option in a ford ambulance prep chassis.
    Now as you state it is in the 2010 model year due to a lack of diesel engines manufactured by Navistar. And next year when Ford comes out with their own diesel powerplant you will see the gas option go away again.

    Up until the 6.0 powerstroke issues , Ford had 90% of the ambulance cutaway chassis business. Then came the new player GM 4500/5500 with the Isusu designed duramax. Now thats no longer an option as they stopped production of their medium duty line in July.
    Sterling is also no longer available.
    That leaves Chevy dodge & Ford in a type 1 pickup chassis and Ford in a van or cutaway unless you want a mini mod where Chevy has a van cutaway in the lighter GVW class.

  5. #55
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    I'm mainly talking Type II and Type III dual rear wheel van style. They are the most popular and most departments are not going to switch to Type I's because Ford only offers the diesel in that model now.

    I *know* it wasn't an option 2 years ago. Or 5 or 10 years ago...etc etc etc. Thats what I was saying. It wasn't...but it *could* have been given engine advances and modern technology.

    Ford has already tested the 6.7L engine and they've bet the entire farm on its success. They've got an entire website devoted to its marketing in PICKUPS. They can't blame International if this doesn't work. If this thing has problems...then what? I hope it does succeed by the way. But I digress.

    you will see the gas option go away again.
    Really? Really?? I thought it was dead in the 80's...never to return again then?? But here it is back...and your certain its already gone again? Even if it works great and they sell tons of them with great feedback...they'll just get rid of them once the 6.7L is in place? What will they say? "Ummm....we had gas engine fires back in the 80's so we can't do the V10 anymore after a couple of successful years in 2010 and 2011."

    If you've spent any time looking at the current 6.4L in trucks...you can see why its not in vans. Because it has 9 different types of coolers and radiators. And the van has NO room to put all that stuff. It won't fit. Remember, recent 7.3L vans couldn't fit an intercooler. The new 6.7L engine has just as many coolers and gadgets to keep if functioning and performing to EPA 2010 mandates. Will the E-Series need a nose lengthening to fit it at all? Maybe...but not right now I suspect. So the V10 will do. Just my guess. Something convinced Ford to go ahead with it.

    Point is this: Ford had gas engine problems in the 80's. So they went diesel to get out of that situation. They were dogs at first...but eventually became powerful performers. Meanwhile...LEAPS and BOUNDS were made in gas engine development and management. So much so that a gas engine option has long been possible. But why should Ford offer a cheaper option when they can keep pushing diesels and selling them for more $$$? All this time they kept reminding us "gas ambulances catch fire, gas ambulances catch fire".

    V10's were capable of doing this job when they came out in 99. But why do that when the market is forced to buy diesels? Does anyone really think that a 2010 Triton V10 has the same issues as a 1986 Econoline Big Block 460? Fuel Injection? Computer Controls? Engine Management and monitoring? Didn't that help anything?

    GMC 4500/5500 are too bulky! No typical city department is going to use those. If that was the case...Freightliner and International has been making medium low pros for years. I'm talking small Type III cutaways.

    Dodge will never do diddly for ambulances anymore. So forget the Cummins in a van type. Chevy has an opportunity with the rock solid Duramax platform. But they've never pushed the ambulance market at all. They should. Besides...thats all GM medium dutys are anyway....van cabs with a tilt nose. And they put Duramax's in vans.

    All I ever said was gas should be an option these days because they are less expensive, reliable and performers. Maybe not as fuel efficient...but still performers and workers.

    Will 6.0L Powerstroke failure/patient suffering/loss of revenue lawsuits dwarf the handful of gas fire lawsuits in the 80's? Who knows.
    Last edited by fpvfd502; 10-23-2009 at 12:42 AM.
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    Perhaps it should be mentioned that the new 6.2L V8 is also coming out in Fords new heavy duty pickup line. How long the 6.8L V10 remains available is unknown to me. Maybe for one year...maybe 5 more. Who knows. I'm going to try and find out today. The 6.2L will be more powerful than the 5.4L V8...but less than the current V10 according to spy reports. I can't see Ford offering 2 different gas options in SuperDuty trucks anymore with the all new 6.2L V8.

    Or maybe V10's will hang around for van chassis use only...for a few years, until they redesign that vehicle line to fit new engines. But 2010 will see V10 ambulance prep packages as one option.

    One of many articles:

    http://www.jems.com/news_and_article...s_in_2010.html
    Last edited by fpvfd502; 10-23-2009 at 11:52 AM.
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    Some info on the increased cost of diesel fuel. When the 2007 low sulfur fuel requirement came into being, some type of additive had to be used to take the place of the sulfur in the fuel. I'm not even sure what the sulfur did, but, our local Chevron distributor tells us that the increased cost was the result of the additives that replaced sulfur.

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    The EPA didn't like sulfur (nor Carbon Dioxide nor water vapor for that matter)...so they lowered the PPM allowable. The process to desulfurize diesel basically makes it a very "dry" fuel. Thus it was hard on injectors and pumps since most rely on fuel as part of their own lubrication. I'm not sure the sulfur itself was so much a good lubricant, as much as the process to remove it took out other lubricating properties. So a chemical lubricant additive is probably what he's talking about.

    If plants ruled the world...the EPA would ban Oxygen.
    Assistant Chief

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