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    Default FDNY hiring practice

    FDNY bows to diversity critics - Todays Daily News


    Hiring test standards to be eased

    BY LISA L. COLANGELO, ROBERT F. MOORE and KATHLEEN LUCADAMO
    DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS




    In a major shift, the FDNY is set to relax its hiring requirements as it struggles to boost the number of minority firefighters, the Daily News has learned.
    Applicants will need only 15 college credits - down from 30 - or six months of work experience, sources said.

    Candidates with at least two years of military service also will qualify, a rule that remains unchanged.

    Mayor Bloomberg is expected to announce the new hiring guidelines this morning at Engine 231/Ladder 120 in Brownsville, Brooklyn, sources said.

    The FDNY has long been dogged by criticism about its lack of diversity, and its hiring practices are under investigation by the U.S. Justice Department, with findings due out shortly.

    "The changes, along with a stronger recruitment effort, are small steps in the right direction," said Capt. Paul Washington, head of the Vulcan Society, a group representing the FDNY's black firefighters and a frequent critic of the department's hiring practices.

    "It's encouraging, but there's more to be done."

    Of the FDNY's 11,400 uniformed members, about 325 - less than 3% - are black. About 30, less than 1%, are women.

    Today's announcement comes after the department launched a massive advertising blitz - including bus-stop and subway posters as well as radio spots - last spring to increase its ranks of women and minorities.

    The entrance exam is offered every three years, with the next one scheduled for Jan. 20, 2007, according to the FDNY Web site. The filing period for applicants is now through Oct. 13.

    A spokesman for the department, Frank Gribbon, confirmed that today's announcement would offer "details of our recruitment campaign that will coincide with the upcoming test."

    Top FDNY bosses also are considering a change in the way the test is scored, sources said.

    Applicants who live in the five boroughs are currently given five extra points on the exam.

    But under a new proposal, applicants with a city address would receive 2-1/2 extra points and those with a diploma from a city high school would win another 2-1/2 bonus points, sources said.

    The percentage of minorities in FDNY graduating classes has more than doubled since 1999, fueled mainly by a surge in Latino firefighters, officials said.

    But when 139 probationary firefighters graduated in April, just six were black.

    Originally published on August 7, 2006



    On another note, these are some recordings of radio transmissions from "the war years" with the Bronx and Lower East side. http://www.nycfire.net/node/291
    Last edited by nyckftbl; 08-07-2006 at 03:35 PM. Reason: to add the rolling eyes and the link
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    I thought I would have been the first person to post about this but you beat me to it. Here is an excerpt from WABC.com

    The ad campaign has been a year in the making. The city has spent millions to get its message across. The fire department is making a push to increase diversity, seeking more minority candidates to take the FDNY exam.
    Instead of spending millions on advertising to minoritys, something that has absolutely nothing to do with putting fires out, how about the city pays the FF's more than the measely salary they have and stop closing down firehouses!



    On a side note, I intend on taking the test.
    9/11/01 D.C. Joseph "Uncle Joe" Marchbanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by t13one12
    I thought I would have been the first person to post about this but you beat me to it. Here is an excerpt from WABC.com



    Instead of spending millions on advertising to minoritys, something that has absolutely nothing to do with putting fires out, how about the city pays the FF's more than the measely salary they have and stop closing down firehouses!



    On a side note, I intend on taking the test.

    Good luck, bro.

    Just to add to the insanity of where the money is going, 107 Truck's bucket became detached when the welds failed yesterday. This is the 2nd time in the last few weeks this has been known to have happened. But yeah, lets spend millions on diversity and not spend a dime on an outdated fleet.
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    I think the whole lowering of standards thing is BS too. Why not create a FDNY college like they did the high school and offer the required amount college credits. I understand that college credits dont show whether or not your a good firefighter but it certainly shows commitment and motivation. If you are willing to work your way into college so you can be a firefighter that shows something. I am a full time college student and am a volunteer firefighter/EMT-B. I work my ***** off at school and am getting scholarships and grants to show for it. I still pay a buttload of money because of the school I go to but if you work hard it doesn't matter if you are dirt poor becaues there is money out there to get you through school. Lowering standards is not going to solve anything. If people don't want to be firefighters it doesn't matter what color they are, a tv ad is probably not going to make them want to get into that career. The whole situation is screwed up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl
    "The changes, along with a stronger recruitment effort, are small steps in the right direction," said Capt. Paul Washington, head of the Vulcan Society, a group representing the FDNY's black firefighters and a frequent critic of the department's hiring practices.

    "It's encouraging, but there's more to be done."
    What's next? The people I know waited years and worked very hard to get where they are today. Lowering the standards does nothing but create animosity within a fire department. How can someone be accepted that took a back door route or that was put on the job in the name of a quota? Why don't they take a look at the reasons people get on the job and figure out why it is not translating well in the African American community (Latinos are signing up)?

    With the issues that are facing the NYC guys including lack of a fair contract, the closing of firehouses, rigs that fall apart, and lack of personal safety systems (until recently), the management should be ASHAMED of themselves for putting any money into any kind of advertising campaign instead of investing in the safety of its members.

    Reaching out to the minority community to get them to apply shouldn't be a million dollar effort. Why don't the members of the Vulcan Society visit the schools and show the students what the job means to them? Changing the rules to make the numbers look better is doing a disservice to the department, the community, and the prospective candidate who didn't get there on their merits.

    Just my two cents
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    So let me get this right. FDNY is lowering standards to hire minorities. That's what's wrong with the state that most minorities are in today, they've always been handed something. How about letting them work for it. I personally wouldn't trust a man with my life who damn near got a free pass in the door because of his skin color. It's almost like what happened here when the NCDMV office became a subsidary of the NC Highway Patrol. DMV Officers were shoed in and given an 8 week "fast track" program to becoming highway patrolmen. Do you not think that ****ed a lot of troopers off who worked their asses off in patrol school? What a way to kill tradition in a department. People complain about racism in the world, but for honest, hardworking people like most of us here on the forum, something like this almost festers racism. Personally, I don't care what color my crew members are as long as they get the job done. As for 107's bucket failing, I think it is much more important to make sure you guys up north have proper equipment than to give into some pinko liberal commie group's pressures. I think it's funny how easily a government entity will give in to the pressures of liberal groups these days.
    Just know, I chose my own fate. I drove by the fork in the road and went straight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl

    But when 139 probationary firefighters graduated in April, just six were black.
    I wonder what those six black firefighters think about this lowering of standards. Would those proud six look down on new recruits who can spell their name right and therefore be awarded a job with the FDNY based on their skin tone? If they are going to do an advertising campaign, they need to at least get the opinions of those who worked to get where they are.

    Everytime I read one of these threads, I feel like re-watching the Rescue Me episode "Sensitivity."

    I think if you want to go by quotas, you need to cover every job out there. I mean, every single job. There aren't enough black CEOs, and there aren't enough white asphalt pavers. And the Hispanics won't let any other race get a job in agriculture. I'm calling my representative! [/sarcasm]
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    Default Can I help? I don't know.

    Ny Smokey or anyone else. I have to put this out there. I know it is not the subject but after reading the post, it struck a chord.

    I would like to see FDNY get the help it needs.

    My family on my mothers side was raised in Brooklyn. I was born in upstate. I am not claiming any rights, just letting you know. My heart goes out to all FF but FDNY especially, for a numbers reasons.

    I don't know if I can help and if it would be welcomed but ....

    Could you point me to whomever helps with your fundraising?

    Would I be considered an outsider wanting to help? Is this better left to the brothers and sisters of their house?

    Sure would be nice if a company came along and said...

    Give me a list, a Christmas List of what you need to make your FD, a safer FD. We are living in reality so ofcourse this is not totally possible but there are compaines out there that would support helping "for the cause".

    I don't know the politics so forgive for my innocence and naivity, but can I help with your fundraisers? Is that aloud? Alot of any politics and stipulations?

    Melissa

    PS. No, I am not wealthy, working on it. : )
    Last edited by firetruckred; 08-07-2006 at 09:59 PM.

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    What kills me is the fact that people actually sit around and complain about this stuff enough that the standards are changed.

    I know this isn't involved, but its like a few months ago when feminists were suing the department for low numbers. I'm not attacking females in the fire service by any means, but do you think its right that some should get by any easier than it took you and all your brother/sister firefighters?

    This is the same situation, except no one realizes that in order to get the job, you need to pass the test. Why is it that minorities are valued more than middle-aged white FF's when it comes down to it?

    A firefighter is a firefighter regardless of his or her race, religion, ethnicity, blah blaah blaha blah blah. There is a reason it is a brotherhood because we all share one common trait, that we will do anything we possibly can to help others and put out a fire.

    This is the last post I'm going to have on this topic because honestly I don't think me repeating it over and over will do anything, but I'm anxious to see everyone else's opinion. Sorry for the long post.
    9/11/01 D.C. Joseph "Uncle Joe" Marchbanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by firetruckred
    Ny Smokey or anyone else. I have to put this out there. I know it is not the subject but after reading the post, it struck a chord.

    I would like to see FDNY get the help it needs.

    My family on my mothers side was raised in Brooklyn. I was born in upstate. I am not claiming any rights, just letting you know. My heart goes out to all FF but FDNY especially, for a numbers reasons.

    I don't know if I can help and if it would be welcomed but ....

    Could you point me to whomever helps with your fundraising?

    Would I be considered an outsider wanting to help? Is this better left to the brothers and sisters of their house?

    Sure would be nice if a company came along and said...

    Give me a list, a Christmas List of what you need to make your FD, a safer FD. We are living in reality so ofcourse this is not totally possible but there are compaines out there that would support helping "for the cause".

    I don't know the politics so forgive for my innocence and naivity, but can I help with your fundraisers? Is that aloud? Alot of any politics and stipulations?

    Melissa

    PS. No, I am not wealthy, working on it. : )
    Melissa,

    I am not fortunate enough to be in the FDNY ranks. I am merely a person who admires the job they do and keeps abreast of the various challenges they have been facing lately. My interactions with their members have been very positive and they deserve better.
    Tom

    Never Forget 9-11-2001

    Stay safe out there!

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    Yes they do. Having a family come from NY and understanding how it is there, I will say you won't find harder working people. They certainly deserve more than a pat on the back or a plate of homemade brownies, even though it helps and it's nice.

    My thing is when it comes down to it with all the BS, the nice things people say and smiles to your face, where there's the proff you actuallly give a $hit.

    It is better to ask who to ask from an insider than to make 100 phone calls to find out you called the right place the first time , just didn't have a name or THE name of the right person.

    Thanks anyway.

    On another note if I may add my two cents...

    I look at the FD a number of different ways and love it for a number of reasons. Here is my view.

    The FD is like a relationship, if you lower your standards you attract the wrong people. Why would you lower your standards? If it is about minority then hire more QUALIFIED minority. If you lower your standards you leave so much room for error. This means the relationship is gonna have problems because you don't have people with the same kind of standards.

    They want to give people a fair choice at a shot at the job, you guys and gals aren't the BRAVEST for no reason. Lowering standards can mean more injuries and more deaths, is that what they want? I think it is a bad idea and they will unfortunetly see that in the long run. I certainly wouldn't feel like I earned getting into the FD if I had the education standards dropped for me. Where the heck are the old timers on this about earning your way in and the respect for yourself and from others after you worked hard to get in.

    You don't become the Best of the Best by making it easier.
    Last edited by firetruckred; 08-09-2006 at 11:04 PM.

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    By the way I posted my post before I read your post.

    I avoid those feminist conversations.

    I will say this about that.

    If they adjust standards of a test that was intially for a 6ft 200 lb "person," well maybe there is some fairness in that for ALL people. You are required to be fit and strong enough to handle the job though.

    Men have the same physique. Black, white, hispanic or whatever color. Standards should not be changed so a man with different color skin can get in. That makes no sense.

    PS I just read in one of these posts that they did actually change the test.
    Last edited by firetruckred; 08-09-2006 at 12:17 AM. Reason: because.....

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    I think they should do this for doctors as well. Make sure everyone passes the test, especially the tougher specialties. While they're at it, lawyers, accountants, school teachers, etc.. What's the difference?? Do you want a doctor who scored a 98 or a 58?
    Last edited by CTJAKE; 08-08-2006 at 11:10 AM.

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    Ok, I lied, one more post. I hope I did not lead you to believe that I am against women being firefighters, because I think I'm getting that hint in your last post firetruckred.

    I don't believe that women or minorities should be restricted in any way, but to cater to either one in order to boost the numbers seems ludicrous.

    It shouldn't matter how many of x's, y's, and z's you have in a department.
    9/11/01 D.C. Joseph "Uncle Joe" Marchbanks
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    This makes me F*&%$ sick!!! A slap in the face to everyone on the job! Not to mention we will have these underqualified hairbags placed in our companies now!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CTJAKE
    I think they should do this for doctors as well. Make sure everyone passes the test, especially the tougher specialties. While they're at it, lawyers, accountants, school teachers, etc.. What's the difference?? Do you want a doctor who scored a 98 or a 58?
    I was going to say the same thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by t13one12
    Ok, I lied, one more post. I hope I did not lead you to believe that I am against women being firefighters, because I think I'm getting that hint in your last post firetruckred.

    I don't believe that women or minorities should be restricted in any way, but to cater to either one in order to boost the numbers seems ludicrous.

    It shouldn't matter how many of x's, y's, and z's you have in a department.
    I did not think you meant that. You stated you didn't mean that.

    I am a woman and I thought you wanted my opinion on the subject you brought up. At least that is what I thought it looked like, so I was trying to help. Sorry, No worries.

    I already stated my personal feelings about this subject then I saw your post and I thought you wanted me or a woman to answer you.

    I am against them lowering the standards. What they are saying is ok we will let less intelligent folk in but will increase in training to make up for their lesser education. I think it is ashame. They themselves are saying the minority are less intelligent than the white man. I am not saying it.

    I will say it again. If you can't cut it, do yourself and everyone else a favor and stay out, don't try to get in. If you can cut it then you deserve a chance to serve.

    I am smart enough to know my limitations and my strengths. There is no way I am cut out for FDNY. Most people know this. This is giving people a chance?
    What has changed with fighting fires in NY? It is not easier. So why drop the standards and make it easier to get in?
    Last edited by firetruckred; 08-09-2006 at 11:07 PM.

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    To me it is not about how many credit hours you may have, it is about seeing what the requirements are and if you want it bad enough you will get it done. I don't think credit hours are a good indicator of how good a firefighter you will be, it shows you will take the initative and meet or exceed the requirements. Around here some departments require NREMT-B or better, do we relax that because some people don't have the time or drive to get that done? I think not, bad idea. People is people and the best qualified should get the job!
    Last edited by Stewart46; 08-08-2006 at 04:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewart46
    To me it is not about how many credit hours you may have, it is about seeing what the requirements are and if you want it bad enough you will get it done. I don't think credit hours are a good indicator of how good a firefighter you will be, it shows you will take the imitative and meet or exceed the requirements. Around here some departments require NREMT-B or better, do we relax that because some people don't have the time or drive to get that done? I think not, bad idea. People is people and the best qualified should get the job!
    I disagree. Your education is AS important as anything else.

    There is a reason they have those standards. Alot of reasons.

    First of all you only get top notch people, hopefully weed out the less intelligent and

    second of all being a college graduate, a parent while in college, working, etc etc etc. I busted my butt to earn the education I have. Did I need to learn all the stuff I know, NO. It is not about that. It is mostly about your DRIVE, I agree, How bad do you to want it, how hard are you going to work. But it is also about your education. What are your habits. That is why they like military, you are already conditioned . 50% of the people that took the same Board exam I did, failed it. I received all high scores in all areas of my final National Board Exam. Why? cause I studied my butt off making sure I know what I am suppose to know. That is called discipline. Not slide by. (That's what they are looking for) Am I smarter than most, was it easier for me, NO. I wanted it and I needed it for my profession and survival.

    In my profession, and where I lived to practice, they want to make sure you are the best and nothing less. It saves lives, prevents injury and from alot people sueing you. So my opinion still stands. If you can't cut it go somewhere else or do what is necessary to make it happen.

    I looked up New Yorks college credit hours against my state FL and you have to earn almost twice as much. Why? Cause it's New York. The best of the best.
    Last edited by firetruckred; 08-08-2006 at 03:06 PM.

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    Substandard hiring practices hurt everyone. Just because minorities aren't applying for a job doesn't mean we should lower entry level requirements, or testing. Pathetic.

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    Thumbs down

    The victim in the burning apartment probably doesn't care what color skin the firefighters have.

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    Then reason the recruitment fails is because THEY DONT WANT THE JOB. Most of the target market the city wants have seen fires.....NEVER once have I or anyone in my house had someone come up to us after a job and say "looks cool were do I sign up?" The whole thing is a shame.....especially for the Vulcans. For someone to advocate lowering the standards just says "we'll make it easy for you, b/c you're too stupid to pass a simple test" A test and hiring practice that is completely color blind. I especially love the part about 6 months work experiance and 15 credits....OR 2 years military....like 6 months work and/or 1 semester of college is anything remotley the same as 2 years in the military.....yes...another slap in the face. Utter BS....but I dont forsee this helping any...nothing else in the past has worked....plane and simple....they don't want the job!!!! City residency didn't work, EMS merger and Promotion didn't work, and nor will this...BUT heck...the next step is just hire the guy off the street.....
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    Default Fighting back!

    From the paper Philadelphia Weekly a weekly free publication here in Philly

    Fanning the Flames

    Racial tensions run hot in the city’s Fire Department.

    by Mike Newall



    Tensions brewing in the Philadelphia Fire Department in recent months deepened recently when five firefighters filed a complaint with the Philadelphia Commission on Human Relations. In their complaint the men allege the department’s promotional practices unfairly benefit minorities.

    The complaint represents the opening salvo of a class-action lawsuit expected to reach federal court sometime early this fall.

    The complaint alleges the department employs an unfair and loosely defined system that allows lower-scoring minorities to advance to the written portion of the exam at the expense of higher scoring applicants. It also claims the department appoints a disproportionate number of minority “assessors” to oversee the verbal portions of promotional exams. These assessors, says the complaint, treat minorities preferentially.

    The Fire Department, the city of Philadelphia, Club Valiants—Philly’s black firefighter organization—and the International Association of Black Professional Fire Fighters are all named as defendants. Similar suits elsewhere have resulted in payouts for damages, and forced several fire departments to overhaul their promotional practices.

    Fire commissioner Lloyd Ayers, a former Club Valiants president, didn’t return calls for comment. Neither did the mayor’s office.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Results from last summer’s promotional exam show that some minority candidates had as many as 27 points tacked onto their written scores. These extra points bumped the candidates up to the required passing grade of 70, and allowed them to progress on to the oral exam.

    “Based on information and belief the candidates who received pass points were disproportionately black,” reads the complaint.

    The complaint didn’t include a detailed breakdown of how the curve affected candidates’ scores.

    Twelve of the 14 assessors who administered the oral examination were minorities. The complaint alleges plaintiffs had crucial points deducted for seemingly insignificant infractions, such as “bad body language” and “being to [sic] wordy.”

    The complaint says many candidates who scored poorly on the written exam excelled at the oral boards and didn’t receive the harsh grading their peers did. According to paperwork obtained by the Philadelphia chapter of the Concerned American Fire Fighters Association (CAFFA), a Chicago-based group that describes itself as a “watchdog organization fighting for fair promotional and hiring practices,” nine of the 11 blacks who took the oral exam finished among the top 24 overall highest scorers, more likely ensuring them promotions.

    “It’s believed that the plaintiffs’ scores were held lower and depressed on account of their race,” reads the complaint, “and that African-American candidates were given favor and higher scores on oral tests on account of their race.”

    The complaint doesn’t include information to prove this accusation.

    The complaint says an unnamed high-ranking African-American chief addressed the assessors before the oral exam, and stressed that Philly is in “dire need of minority and female officers.”



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Tension among the rank and file has intensified as the department’s hiring practices have come under increased scrutiny. For years a court-ordered consent decree has mandated that each class of fire recruits be 12 percent African-American.

    In 2004, 400 white firefighters banded together to form the Philadelphia chapter of CAFFA. The group called for the abolition of the decree, arguing it was outdated and discriminatory, and routinely abused by department brass. They pointed to personnel records showing that from 1997 to 2002 the department hired 80 black candidates in place of white candidates with higher scores.

    They claim that in one class of recruits more than 800 higher-scoring candidates were passed over before the department could fulfill the decree. And in the most recent fire cadet class, which started training last month, the department hired nine more black candidates than the decree mandated.

    Philly CAFFA, which now boasts more than 650 members—roughly one-third of the rank and file—has stirred the emotions of a department stained by an ugly racial past. (The department wasn’t fully integrated until the ’50s.)

    Commissioner Ayers refuses to meet with CAFFA. Late last year a Club Valiants board member sent an email encouraging blacks to withdraw from the Philadelphia Fire Fighters’ Union. The board member believed union leadership was assis-ting CAFFA’s efforts to end the decree.

    “It’s time to step away from master,” read the email.

    CAFFA denied those accusations by claiming union leadership wasn’t doing enough to help white firefighters. Union president Brian McBride—elected just last year—must try to make both factions happy. (It’s unlikely he can retain his position in next spring’s elections without the support of African-American union members. If he’s seen as sympathetic to Club Valiants, he may lose the support of white firefighters.)

    “Part of the oath I took as president was to promote fellowship,” says McBride. “That’s what I’m trying to do. Black, white. Whatever. We’re all blue. We’re all firemen.”

    McBride tried to initiate discussion between the presidents of CAFFA and Club Valiants during two recent gatherings of the department’s ethnic associations.

    “Nothing was accomplished,” says a firefighter who attended the meeting. “Tensions are even higher now.”

    The number of angry, angst- ridden—and often ignorant and misspelled—missives posted on Domelights.com, an online bulletin board for Philly cops and firefighters, has greatly increased in recent months. Whites dominate the discourse on Domelights. There was this recent post:

    “How can one race spend their entire careers screaming about racism, going to court, crying to the press, etc, etc. then the very second they are in power, do the exact same things they’ve been screaming about to another race? They are disgusting!”

    In February Joseph Montague, the vice president of CAFFA and a lieutenant at a firehouse in Mt. Airy, showed up to work to find a pillowcase inscribed with “KKKaffa” hanging from his locker. Below the inscription was a pair of drawn-on eyes.

    A black firefighter has since been fired over the incident.

    In a Daily News article following the firefighter’s dismissal, Commissioner Ayers refused to call the incident a hate crime, infuriating many white firemen.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In an interview earlier this year Club Valiants president Capt. Derrick Sawyer acknowledged the rising tension.

    “It’s a very tough situation,” he said. “You have two very different perspectives. Two very different cultures. And it’s going to be hard to get them to see things in the same light.”

    Sawyer said he’s willing to discuss replacing the controversial decree with an “alternate measure to ensure diversity.” But he quickly added, “I’ve been in the department for 20 years, and have never heard anybody come up with a better idea. All they say is, ‘It’s outdated. Let’s get rid of it.’ But I think if we ended the decree today, we’d be revisiting the past. We’d have no other policy to ensure diversity.”

    The department, said Sawyer, needs to increase its minority recruiting efforts, which now take place every four years in preparation for the entrance exam. (Last year’s recruiting team hoped to enlist 10,000 minorities for the entrance exam. Only 1,100 wound up applying, and a mere 620 blacks and Hispanics made the hiring list.)

    “Our recruitment efforts need to be ongoing and permanent,” said Sawyer.

    Union president McBride hasn’t read the complaint, and is hesitant to comment on how it may affect morale in the department.

    “We’re no different from any other big organization,” he says. “We have our problems, but we’re trying our best to work them out.”
    Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

  24. #24
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    "Last year’s recruiting team hoped to enlist 10,000 minorities for the entrance exam. Only 1,100 wound up applying, and a mere 620 blacks and Hispanics made the hiring list."

    This is a telling quote. The recruiting team (all minorities detailed to this "unit") set out to enlist 10,000 minority applicants. They only reached 10% of their OWN goal. Only 620 of which actually passed the test. A test so simple it resembles a paint by numbers picture or coloring book. It not my fault, the departments fault, the citys fault, the states fault or the feds faulth that they fail to apply for the job and when they do, they do poorly on a test specifically made easier so to increase their numbers. Believe this, its not a coincidence that all these "unfair hiring practice" law suits are popping up all at once. I believe there is a concentrated effort by the IABPFF to lower hiring standards so as to increase their numbers. Im not opposed to working with minorities, I crawl the halls with a bunch who are down right good people. I fully oppose the lowering of standards in an attempt to increase any one demographic.

    On a related note, I wonder why nobody is screaming that the sanitation department or streets department should have "equal representation of the population" I guess the brothers dont want to have hundreds of brothers fired from those departments to make room for whitey.
    Just another one of the 99%ers looking up.

  25. #25
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    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    166

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    When operating this pump panel ---

    Please press 1 for gauges in english

    Please press 2 for gauges in spanish

    I's gots to axem when the new gauges be commin so I can try'em boff.

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