1. #1
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    Question Pumper/Tanker Questions

    I have a couple of questions about a Pumper/Tanker. I have written an AFG for a (2500 gal/1000 pump) pumper/tanker.

    Does anyone have any written specs I can use to start mine with?

    Does anyone have a company that you would suggest, that would do us right?

    Thanks for the help in advance!!!

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    Post just an opinion

    Borrowing specs from others may give you some starting ideas but I would be afraid that you might be tempted to just copy them and that might not be the right thing for your needs. First try searching on the internet the various well known companies and maybe not so well known. You need to decide on a custom chassis or commercial chassis for starters. You need to decide the terrain, area covered, etc. Engines, transmissions, rear end gearing, axle types, brakes, pumps, plumbing material (brass or galvanized etc.) cab size, and a host of other things. Be as complete and specific as possible to include brand names, locations etc. Make sure of your warranty, repair capabilities, service, service and service. Once you have decided on all of your wants and needs then find a dealer who will work with you and make sure the company can build to your specs with no exceptions unless you have picked something nobody can do.

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    Really, I just need a empty form or just some ideas to make sure I hit everything! I don't want to leave anything off and basically some ideas from what others have done...

    I think I am a big enough boy that i don't have to copy someones "homework", like you say. I just need some where to start, but still thanks for the opinion.

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    Start with the basics that you had in the grant application, since you can't alter those without an amendment with DHS. So you know you're looking at minimum 1000gpm pump, 2500gal tank. Right there you're at a tandem axle chassis, and depending on terrain you're going to want 400HP minimum, maybe more. So if you said 2 or 4 door, custom or commercial, you have to stick with that. Put these things in a list.

    Then go wandering around to the new delivery sites of the various manufacturers and see what others have built that look like what you were thinking of when you designed yours. Check the specs to see how close it is to what you have on your list, print the ones you like, and make some phone calls to get complete spec lists and costs. Once you're in the ballpark, then you can start getting more detailed.

    Unless you have your prenotifications of award, don't expect much out of many salespeople. They have been jerked around by a lot of people over the past few years claiming "there's no way they're not getting the grant", spending hours chasing prices and specs, only to have the department denied without Peer Review. As much as we can preach customer service, they have bills to pay too and they are going to chase more likely sales than potential awards. But definitely have your ducks in a row just in case you do get the magic emails. That way you can have things locked up shortly after the public announcement and have the truck in service within 6-9 months.

    - Brian

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    jd: If you can put your fax number here I have a set of specs for a tanker with pump that I can fax you fopr starters. I wasn't picking on you but it happens about what i said. I also agree with BC79er. Anyway I have some materal here that may be of help in getting you started.

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    The biggest thing I'd recommend beyond what these guys say is to get with other nearby departments and see what they like/don't like on theirs. The one we've got being built is the first of it's kind in our area, so we did a lot of research from other areas.

    Ours is a Kenworth 2-door, topmount 1750 Waterous, full height pumper compartments driver's side, passenger front is high side with a dump tank rack over the axles (tandem), 8 wheel-well SCBA bottle storage compartments, full hose bed, 3 1 3/4" crosslays, 10" dump in rear compartment with elbow and extension. There's a lot more, but you see what our basics are. We wanted something that was versitile and could serve multiple functions on the fire ground, including tandem or relay pumping from a water source.

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    Thanks guys! You can fax it to 334-263-5624... I listed on AFG. A 1000/2500 pumper tanker on a 2 dr. commerical chassis... Do I need something with a 400hp in it?

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    Depends on location/terrain. I know a lot of the Mack Granite chassis trucks have the 427HP in it. You're going to have 40,000lbs in water weight plus the truck. The torque gain from the bigger block motors will keep PM down in the long run. lvwrench and the others will have more info about that. But the rule of thumb is the longer you want the truck's useful life to be, the more beef you need to put in chassis frame, motor, and axles.

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    I understand about you "not" picking on me LV... And I know that it does happen. That is why a neighboring county here in Alabama has 5 pumpers that look and operate identically.

    We have NO (0) tankers in my county!! So I have nothing locally to compare my future one to. Most of the ones in surrounding counties are home made, well made, but still most are not mfg'd pumper/tankers.

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    It is pretty flat minus a few hills here in my county... And i do want it to get up and go (GO= not speed, but we don't want it to lag). They come with governor's right?

    Do y'all want to see what i have so far?

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    I'm not sure if ours is going to be underpowered or not (our in house diesel mechanic thinks' it'll be alright) but we've got a 330 Cummins in ours. We've got a few hills, but mostly flat. I was a lot like you, I want the HP to get up the hills, but at the same time don't want so much my guys that aren't used to that big of a truck will get into trouble.

    One thing I would make sure you had on there is a jake brake or some other kind of retarder. One other thing to look at is to see how much it would cost to upgrade pump size. We started off with a 1,250 Hale, went to 1,500 Hale with no cost, then saved around $3,500 to go to a Waterous 1,750. As long as it wsn't a Darley, I wasn't too picky. Some places will go with a pedistal pump and make their own intake/discharge manifolds if that's something you're willing to look at. We wanted the full body pump, but it may be something you'd like.

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    You don't say where you are but 400 HP is a good number for a tender. You can get away with less if it's flat. There are lots of variables but what I have to say is that tandem axles are essential mainly because of the extra pair of brakes it gives you but also the equalizing suspension allows you to walk over bumps, rocks, etc. a lot easier. And a true Jake brake is also an essential safety item, nothing else is really acceptable in such a heavy vehicle especially with the heat loading of the EGR and now the new 2007 engines.

    Birken

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    help me out... What is a pedistal pump? I will go with whatever is cheaper... I am not sold on Hale or Waterous, i have pumped off of both with no problerm with either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er
    You're going to have 40,000lbs in water weight plus the truck.
    Water weighs 8.345404 lbs./gallon which is 20,863.51 lbs.
    FTM - PTB

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    Default Tanker Specs

    Page 140 of the latest NFPA Standard NFPA1901 -2003 Standards for Automotive Fire Apparatus has a very useful "Apparatus Purchasing Specification Form" which walks you through all of the common items and features you would have on a bid spec.

    It is a fill in the blank form with questions like basic dimension limitations, expected performance and capacities, are approval drawings required, is a performance or warrenty bond required, discharges and thread sizes, seating positions, electrical items, warning lights etc, etc, etc.

    It really helps you think about all of the possibilities and helps you do the initial detailed generic spec.

    A very useful 20 pages. It would behove you to spend 28 bucks for a 1901 standard book.

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    Who is building your truck????

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    Thanks LV!!!

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    DoneThat, Where can I get the book for $28 at?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdlowndes
    DoneThat, Where can I get the book for $28 at?
    Donethat is right on with that suggestion of 1901.... www.nfpa.org or call them and it will be shipped within a day or two. But it lists for $50.00 still worth not messing up a new truck.

    I got this off the NFPA site:

    Quote Originally Posted by NFPA
    Contact Us

    Do you have a question about your order or one of our products or services? The information below will help you find the information you're searching for ó or put you in touch with one of our customer service representatives.

    Phone: Call us at 1-800-344-3555 or 1-617-770-3000, if outside the U.S., anytime from between 8:30 am to 7:00 pm (EST) Monday through Friday to place an order. Our Customer Service hours are 8:30 to 4:30 EST Monday through Friday.

    Fax: You can also fax us your orders or questions to 1-800-593-NFPA or 1-508-895-8301 if outside the U.S.

    Email: If you prefer to send us your question via email, please send it to custserv@nfpa.org. All emails are answered within 24-48 hours of receipt, Monday through Friday.

    Mail: Orders and customer service inquiries can be mailed to:

    National Fire Protection Association
    11 Tracy Drive
    Avon, MA 02322

    NFPA Headquarters address:
    National Fire Protection Association
    1 Batterymarch park
    Quincy, MA 02269
    Phone: 617-770-3000
    Fax: 617-770-0700 ?
    Last edited by ChiefDog; 08-09-2006 at 05:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdlowndes
    help me out... What is a pedistal pump? I will go with whatever is cheaper... I am not sold on Hale or Waterous, i have pumped off of both with no problerm with either.
    It's basically like a PTO pump. It's got the gear box, impellor and housing, an intake into the impellor eye, and a discharge. The manufacturer builds an intake housing with the 6" inlets and whatever 2 1/2" inlets you specify and pipe it into the intake side of the pump. They then do the same with the discharge side.

    One thing I dont' like about them is whatever number of discharges and intakes you specify is what it's going to have. With a full body pump you can add some intakes/discharges later, or other options that bold on to those spots (thermal relieve valves and anodes, mainly).

    If you were asking me who was building our truck, it's Rosenbauer-Central States Division.

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    Default Nfpa 1901-2003

    I bought my book three years ago when the 2003 version came out for $28.75 to be exact. Man, have they jacked up the price. But still worth the $50 bucks IMHO.

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    Thanks for the help,all of you guys!

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    jdlowndes send me a PM--i have a form. we are doing the same thing--ours will be probably 2000/2000 pierce.

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    I am in the process of specing out a 2000/1250 for a rural VFD near me. If anyone has any suggestions, please feel free to post them here or PM me.

    Thank you in advance.

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    To add to what I posted as far as equipment before, we also specced out a 3" tank-to-pump line, a 2 1/2" tank fill line, and a 4" direct tank fill on the rear, and 12v extension lights. We're also looking at putting a 2,500 gallon snap-tank to go with the 2,500 gallon fold-a-tank (most of our neighbors don't care dump tanks) to make sure we have enough on scene drafting storage.

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