1. #26
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    I wasn't part of the visit, but on a trip up to Appleton a couple weeks back, the sales rep walked the guys around the factory, and they stopped outside some open bay doors. Didn't know what they were looking at and stood there for a couple minutes before someone came over told them to move on and closed the doors. One of the guys however, snapped a photo on his phone. We're thinking this closed-off area might have something to do with the new trucks. This is his photo.
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    They did that with us when the FBI command trucks were being built, of course keeping new design info secret is a little different from 'national secrets', but still fun.

    But we climbed all over the TFFT's they had up there for the Army. You gotta like trucks that have "M-16 Rack" as an option. Some inner city stations should think about them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VanIsleEVT
    I believe you are correct on the "not so custom" thing. Miami Dade has gone with Spartan/Rosenbauer on their latest big order of quints. I think it was 25 units. When I was at Spartan, there was lime green everywhere. I was told that Pierce wasn't willing to do the "little things" anymore. Spartan was more then willing to build it their way, and let me tell you, they were custom cabs!

    Not quite correct. True, we are no longer purchasing quints from Pierce. We tried ALF for a batch of 6 in 2004, but have switched to Rosenbauer/General Safety/RK Aerials/Spartan for the latest round. However, our engines are still Quantums. We just put 4 new deliveries into service this week.
    iluv4201

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFGW942
    I wasn't part of the visit, but on a trip up to Appleton a couple weeks back, the sales rep walked the guys around the factory, and they stopped outside some open bay doors. Didn't know what they were looking at and stood there for a couple minutes before someone came over told them to move on and closed the doors. One of the guys however, snapped a photo on his phone. We're thinking this closed-off area might have something to do with the new trucks. This is his photo.

    Wow. Its just like looking at blurry pictures of UFO's, bigfoot, and the lochness monster! Someone call X Files!

    iluv4201

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    Can't you see Nessie in the back wiring it up? Bigfoot is a diesel mechanic, he doesn't work in that part of the plant.

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    Based on the photo, I see we can expect a new front window design, in addition to the new grill & headlight fascia promised in the trade journals...

  7. #32
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    Default customizing rigs

    I'm confused with all the comments on this thread about Pierce not customizing their rigs. My department has a pumper on order from Pierce. The prints that the committee showed have multiple things that had to be customized. A neighboring department has a heavy rescue on order that is all customized. They told me that only Pierce and one other company would do what they wanted.

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    I think the perception that Pierce won't customize has more to do with the dealer than the factory. It wouldn't be unheard of to come across a dealership or individual salesman that doesn't want to do all the legwork dealing with the engineers. That takes up a considerable amount of their time, going back and forth and constantly tweaking so many little details.

    Speaking from actual experience working with Pierce many times, unless a request we made was physically impossible or would create a rig that didn't comply with NFPA/DOT/OSHA guidelines/standards, we've never been told "We can't or won't do that". Therefore, I submit that it's very unfair for anyone to claim you can't customize a Pierce as much as any other brand. Way too many generalizations thrown around far too often.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chauffer6
    I think the perception that Pierce won't customize has more to do with the dealer than the factory. It wouldn't be unheard of to come across a dealership or individual salesman that doesn't want to do all the legwork dealing with the engineers. That takes up a considerable amount of their time, going back and forth and constantly tweaking so many little details.

    Speaking from actual experience working with Pierce many times, unless a request we made was physically impossible or would create a rig that didn't comply with NFPA/DOT/OSHA guidelines/standards, we've never been told "We can't or won't do that". Therefore, I submit that it's very unfair for anyone to claim you can't customize a Pierce as much as any other brand. Way too many generalizations thrown around far too often.
    I agree 100%. Our 02 Pierce quint had almost 2 pages of custom items, several of which the Pierce engineers told us they had never attempted. They did everything we asked for. No problem.
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  10. #35
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    Default Any new info?

    Has anybody come across any new info or pictures on what Pierce is talking about or going to in September?

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    Post Custom Apparatus

    Having speced out an Engine with Pierce I felt that they discourged custom apparatus by bumping the price way up. Since that advanture in 2002-2003 (ALF won the Bid and we are very happy with it.) I have done some checking and have found out that Pierce will indeed customize your apparatus, however it will cost you big time.

    The picture of the "NEW PIERCE" looks alot like an ALF door. Things that make you wonder!
    Last edited by Chief1FF; 08-21-2006 at 11:54 AM.

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    FTM - PTB

  13. #38
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    Come on now...ALF didn't invent that door Pierce did!!! As well as the rear mount rescue pumper, the Aluminum Ladder, independent front suspension, and all steer. "ALL GODS CHILDREN, COME TO THE PIERCE"

  14. #39
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    On ALF's, the whole bottom of the window is angled down, so is Ferrara's.

    Did Oshkosh buy Ford? That door looks like a 04+ F150 and 99+ Super Duty.
    FTM - PTB

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    Post Pierce Door

    I should say it looks more like an ALF door up to 2003, before they redesigned there doors.

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    Default FDNY Rescue Unveiling

    I'm betting you are going to see the 1st fdny rescue truck released in TX

    That door design is very popular in the over the road cabs like the Mack Highway series trucks.

    Mark
    Last edited by captain7; 08-24-2006 at 09:20 AM. Reason: Additional info

  17. #42
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    Default 2007 Pierce

    I just got back from the factory and there are a few new cabs there, but not for viewing.
    The FDNY Rescue 1 is going to get its body mounted next week and then on to finishing
    Great trip

  18. #43
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    Default Pierce customization is not going away...

    Being a Pierce sales rep and a volunteer firefighter, I wanted to comment on some things I've seen here.

    First, Pierce's underlying business philosophy is to provide custom apparatus, so to go away from that would essentially be deciding that the most successful truck manufacturer in the USA with the most sales per year has been doing something wrong and needs to change the way they do things. I'm not privy to internal decisions, so I won't pretend to know what is going on, but doing away with customization is very unlikely. If you seperated Pierce in Appleton and our Contender plant in Florida, you would still be looking at the #1 and #3 seller of trucks. Pierce must be doing something right with their current business model.

    There may be some truth in the statement I read about the rep's being the hinderance to customization. It's your job to tell that rep to just do it - that's what you want. There is a big difference in work involved for a building a very customized truck vs. a not-so customized truck & very little difference in the income we receive in return. I personally don't operate that way and my personal philosophy is that in a way, I am providing a service to an industry that I love and respect. Yes I make money doing so, but if that was my only motivation, I feel I'd be doing myself and you guys a dis-service. If you think it can be done, push hard for it and we can most likely do it for you.

    As far as custom option cost, I think that purchasers of apparatus often underestimate the costs involved in creating custom options. Pierce employs over 200 engineers for a reason and their salaries are not cheap and the R&D required for these options is a large undertaking. If customization is too expensive, then you should probably be considering manufacturers that employ only a handful of engineers and offer very little customization. We will never be able to compete with their prices, nor do I suspect Pierce intends to try to the extent of lessoning what we are - high quality apparatus.

    We target departments that want the best truck designed to their needs. We don't (or should I say shouldn't) say "NO", unless it can't be done engineering-wise or it is not cost-effective to do so. There is a point where Pierce has to say no to custom requests that are specialized to the point of only being useable by the customer that designs it. It only makes business sense to say no to something that would cost more than it would it would return in profit. After all, we are in business to make money.

    Our trucks are more expensive for a reason & you get what you pay for. The main reason we are more expensive is that we put many options and designs into our trucks that are standard and not able to be removed to come down to pricing levels of some competitors offering lessor quality-built/designed trucks.

    We often have customers asking us to compete on price with the "budget" trucks of the world, but it will never happen. A good measure to this is to put out a Pierce spec and see where the competitors stand. We know that if we get a customer to put out a Pierce spec, there may not even be any other bids returned because they simply can't do it from an engineering standpoint, let alone the cost. Even the ones that do, can't match major issues in our spec. All fire trucks look the same from a 100 feet away. Get in there and check out the differences. Look at the frame (largest, sturdiest in the industry), look at how we build our bodies, look at how we design our custom chassis & finally, look at the integration of all the compenents. Get on a creeper and get under the truck. It shouldn't take you long to figure out the differences.

    Now, let's talk about the engineering capabilities that we have. Our parent company is Oshkosh. If you watch the news on the war, you see Oshkosh vehicles all over the screen - the HEMTT is all over Iraq and Afganistan in many different configuration. Everyone knows that civilian, particularly fire service technology filters down from the military. Much of what has been learned in Oshkosh's military contracts filter down to Pierce. To argue the benefits and quality of that support would be pointless. Pierce/Oshkosh supplies TFFT's and ARFF vehicles to the military and we have recently been awarded an initial limited run contract on tenders with the Army for testing (and yes, the M16 racks are cool). The military thinks our products are the best available for our boys overseas & that generally tells you something.

    As far as Dallas goes, everything you are hearing is rumor as Pierce isn't even telling it's dealer's what is going to happen. I will get my first glimpse of what is being unveiled Thursday evening at FRI at the launch event. With that said, I would bet the truth can be found somewhere in these rumors - smart people have a way of thinking what is going to happen. I will be happy to update this thread with what goes on at FRI for those of you who won't be present. Also, there will be a webcast on the Pierce website the evening of 9/14, covering the launch event. For those of you that will be there, invitations to the event may still be available to see it first hand.

    To wrap this up, I'm not here to say that there aren't other manufacturers that make quality products - there are & I call a spade a spade when I see it. There are other good trucks out there - I've ridden on them as a firefighter, but I appreciate that my department is primarily Pierce & I decline to volunteer for my local department because they buy everything low bid. I'm not saying it's their fault - the local government is probably responsible for that, but that doesn't mean I have to work for a department that doesn't put safety and quality for their men and women as priority, regardless of the reason. It seems ironic to me that in a business where we are required to provide the best service and safety to our citizens, departments are willing to endanger their firefighters by buying the lowest priced product that comes across the table & this isn't limited to just trucks.

    If you work for a department that doesn't buy on price, you know what the difference really is between low-priced trucks and high-end custom apparatus. If you work for a department that is low-bid, then I would think with that restraint you would find it hard to accept the differences and their value. If it's not an option for you, why would you bother to concentrate on those factors. With that said, budget is the reality for many departments & I wish I could get them into a Pierce, but I know that is unlikely to happen.

    I hope I've been of some benefit to you guys.

  19. #44
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    Thanks for the sales pitch.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    To FIREFLY9,

    I have to question your choice not to volunteer on your local volunteer department because they buy low bid. Doesn't say much for your character. If the manufacturer meets their spec's and is the low bid they should get the job.

    All manufacturers write spec's that are so tight that it scares others off. If you really want competition find a good performance spec and hold everyone to it. There are alot of good manufacturers out there. Make them work for you.

    Also, you can take your "my Pierce is worth $xxxx.xx amount of dollars more than everyone else's truck" attitude and park it.

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    Default All I can say...

    ...is you get what you pay for & assaulting my character without knowing me clearly shows the quality of yours.

  22. #47
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    Is Pierce webcasting the unveiling on the 14th? I heard they were and was wondering what time that would occur?

  23. #48
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    Default consider the source

    Quote Originally Posted by FIREFLY9
    Being a Pierce sales rep and a volunteer firefighter, I wanted to comment on some things I've seen here.

    First, Pierce's underlying business philosophy is to provide custom apparatus, so to go away from that would essentially be deciding that the most successful truck manufacturer in the USA with the most sales per year has been doing something wrong and needs to change the way they do things. I'm not privy to internal decisions, so I won't pretend to know what is going on, but doing away with customization is very unlikely. If you seperated Pierce in Appleton and our Contender plant in Florida, you would still be looking at the #1 and #3 seller of trucks. Pierce must be doing something right with their current business model.

    There may be some truth in the statement I read about the rep's being the hinderance to customization. It's your job to tell that rep to just do it - that's what you want. There is a big difference in work involved for a building a very customized truck vs. a not-so customized truck & very little difference in the income we receive in return. I personally don't operate that way and my personal philosophy is that in a way, I am providing a service to an industry that I love and respect. Yes I make money doing so, but if that was my only motivation, I feel I'd be doing myself and you guys a dis-service. If you think it can be done, push hard for it and we can most likely do it for you.

    As far as custom option cost, I think that purchasers of apparatus often underestimate the costs involved in creating custom options. Pierce employs over 200 engineers for a reason and their salaries are not cheap and the R&D required for these options is a large undertaking. If customization is too expensive, then you should probably be considering manufacturers that employ only a handful of engineers and offer very little customization. We will never be able to compete with their prices, nor do I suspect Pierce intends to try to the extent of lessoning what we are - high quality apparatus.

    We target departments that want the best truck designed to their needs. We don't (or should I say shouldn't) say "NO", unless it can't be done engineering-wise or it is not cost-effective to do so. There is a point where Pierce has to say no to custom requests that are specialized to the point of only being useable by the customer that designs it. It only makes business sense to say no to something that would cost more than it would it would return in profit. After all, we are in business to make money.

    Our trucks are more expensive for a reason & you get what you pay for. The main reason we are more expensive is that we put many options and designs into our trucks that are standard and not able to be removed to come down to pricing levels of some competitors offering lessor quality-built/designed trucks.

    We often have customers asking us to compete on price with the "budget" trucks of the world, but it will never happen. A good measure to this is to put out a Pierce spec and see where the competitors stand. We know that if we get a customer to put out a Pierce spec, there may not even be any other bids returned because they simply can't do it from an engineering standpoint, let alone the cost. Even the ones that do, can't match major issues in our spec. All fire trucks look the same from a 100 feet away. Get in there and check out the differences. Look at the frame (largest, sturdiest in the industry), look at how we build our bodies, look at how we design our custom chassis & finally, look at the integration of all the compenents. Get on a creeper and get under the truck. It shouldn't take you long to figure out the differences.

    Now, let's talk about the engineering capabilities that we have. Our parent company is Oshkosh. If you watch the news on the war, you see Oshkosh vehicles all over the screen - the HEMTT is all over Iraq and Afganistan in many different configuration. Everyone knows that civilian, particularly fire service technology filters down from the military. Much of what has been learned in Oshkosh's military contracts filter down to Pierce. To argue the benefits and quality of that support would be pointless. Pierce/Oshkosh supplies TFFT's and ARFF vehicles to the military and we have recently been awarded an initial limited run contract on tenders with the Army for testing (and yes, the M16 racks are cool). The military thinks our products are the best available for our boys overseas & that generally tells you something.

    As far as Dallas goes, everything you are hearing is rumor as Pierce isn't even telling it's dealer's what is going to happen. I will get my first glimpse of what is being unveiled Thursday evening at FRI at the launch event. With that said, I would bet the truth can be found somewhere in these rumors - smart people have a way of thinking what is going to happen. I will be happy to update this thread with what goes on at FRI for those of you who won't be present. Also, there will be a webcast on the Pierce website the evening of 9/14, covering the launch event. For those of you that will be there, invitations to the event may still be available to see it first hand.

    To wrap this up, I'm not here to say that there aren't other manufacturers that make quality products - there are & I call a spade a spade when I see it. There are other good trucks out there - I've ridden on them as a firefighter, but I appreciate that my department is primarily Pierce & I decline to volunteer for my local department because they buy everything low bid. I'm not saying it's their fault - the local government is probably responsible for that, but that doesn't mean I have to work for a department that doesn't put safety and quality for their men and women as priority, regardless of the reason. It seems ironic to me that in a business where we are required to provide the best service and safety to our citizens, departments are willing to endanger their firefighters by buying the lowest priced product that comes across the table & this isn't limited to just trucks.

    If you work for a department that doesn't buy on price, you know what the difference really is between low-priced trucks and high-end custom apparatus. If you work for a department that is low-bid, then I would think with that restraint you would find it hard to accept the differences and their value. If it's not an option for you, why would you bother to concentrate on those factors. With that said, budget is the reality for many departments & I wish I could get them into a Pierce, but I know that is unlikely to happen.

    I hope I've been of some benefit to you guys.

    I thoroughly enjoyed your explanations. As for those who feel otherwise , well, they are excercising their right to disagree. Do not allow yourself to be provoked. You have a quality product and with it will always be jealousy and envy.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by EngineCo2
    Is Pierce webcasting the unveiling on the 14th? I heard they were and was wondering what time that would occur?
    I read it somewhere,although I forget where, but the answer is yes, and on thier website. The time though, I have no clue!!

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    Firehouse.com just sent an email about it, 6:30pm CST web cast.

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