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  1. #1
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    Default Pierce 2007 Rigs

    Does anyone have any insight at all of what pierce is changing besides cab size to meet the new 2007 EPA restrictions. I hear they have completely revised and redesigned their chassis' and are discontinuing atleast 2 popular styles. I know it will all be releasedon Sept. 14th in Dallas but currently my organization is looking to purchase a new rig and would like to see what Pierce is going to be offering rather soon. I also hear that Pierce is pretty much eliminating the option of customization as far as creative design. They are standardizing the Tak-4 which I'm not a huge fan of and also their electronic controls. If anyone has any tid bits that they may have obtained it would be very appreciated. I have contacted Pierce and conveyed my concerns to them and they have been very unhelpful!


  2. #2
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    Well they really aren't changing cab size on the outside, but I know from having 2 pumpers due in November that the doghouses have grown as well as the radiators because of the increased junk on the motors for the emissions control toys. I hadn't heard anything on discontinuing a line, but it wouldn't surprise me to see them drop the Saber, not too many of those go are built. Guess we'll just have to wait until FRI. I'll only have a 90 minute headstart on y'all, I'm exhibiting so I'll be in around 9am to see the toys before the crowds come in.

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    Actually the one thing they have told me is that there will be significant modification to the cab size and structure. If you are receiving your engine shortly then you do not have the entire new EPA Standard package proposed. Pierce will be building the old style rigs up until late Sept. or Early October before switching to these new models.

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    Ours are due in November. They must have made a lot of changes since I was up last year, I didn't go up there for drawing approval this time. When I talked to the R&D Engineers they were trying to keep everything the same minus the increased radiator and doghouse, but that doesn't leave much room for what is supposed to be crammed into the cab. Since they couldn't really go wider, guess they're making them a little longer maybe?

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    I believe you are correct on the "not so custom" thing. Miami Dade has gone with Spartan/Rosenbauer on their latest big order of quints. I think it was 25 units. When I was at Spartan, there was lime green everywhere. I was told that Pierce wasn't willing to do the "little things" anymore. Spartan was more then willing to build it their way, and let me tell you, they were custom cabs!

  6. #6
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    bc79er: I doubt they will discontinue their Saber Chassis, that is what all the custom contenders are Sabers without the middle window. My understanding is that the saber is going to get a make over inside and out though. The saber is along with the Dash one of their best sellers.

  7. #7
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    Default

    Only change i am aware of via a Pierce mechanic par excellence is that the Arrow XT is being modified so that entering/exiting is more user friendly than at present. Didn't hear if any item is going off the list but i am wondering how much does the lance get built. Alsi they still have some javlins left [rear- mounted engines akinn to the E-one hush] and also tho not pushing it the all-wheel steer option is still yours if you pay for it AND are willing to train adequately so as not to become involved in needless accidents that have given that option a less than favorable review.

    For some who have been critical of pierce back pedalling on aluminum aerials versus their previous devotion to all-steel: remember; when someone else enters the picture with big buckaroos when you are hurting then they call the shots. Yes, Pierce was hurting when Oshkosh took over. Even with phenomenol sales they weren't making it. oshkosh looked at the bottom line; how can we increase market share?

    step 1] build a low-emd budget rig in our Bredenton Florida plant now used for non-fire vehivles and pay peanuts for the laboreres to do it

    2] offer all-aluminum so we do not loose market share to E-one aerials both 75' and 100'

    3] offer tak-4 from our oshkosh affiliation

    4] offer all-wheel steer similarly from our oshkosh connection

    5] buy nova quintech from canada and use their two lines as your own- the aerial as the articulating and telescoping all-in-one sky arm; and the engine in lieu of the former telesqurt with the new sky boom tech at 55' and 61'


    So this is the new Pierce. Always evolving; streamlining, and doing what is best for its massive production of apparatus even if they aren't able to customize to your satisfaction coz it is too time consuming.

  8. #8
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    Pierce already sacrifices quite a bit of interior volume compared to some other chassis because of the size of their doghouses. Comparable competitor's cabs actually offer more interior volume at shorter cab lengths than some Pierce models.

    I'm not slamming their product, they obviously do things right. I would just be betting that you see some pretty interesting changes to the way Pierce has their chassis offerings set up.

  9. #9
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Pretty good article regarding the 07 changes in one of the latest editions of FH or FE I forget which.Not as many changes as we've been lead to believe.Also take a look at Pierce's last few quarters earnings,you might find them of interest. T.C.

  10. #10
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    Default Cab width

    I think all of the custom fire cab and chassis builders will increase the width of their cabs to handle the increased width of the engine envelope.
    Most states now allow 102" wide. And all interstates allow 102" wide.
    IMHO!

  11. #11
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    oldestwiseowl, you forgot step 6) Market all of the above as new Pierce innovations.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  12. #12
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    I guess we will all have to wait and see until Sept. 14 in Dallas. One thing is for certain though, customizing with Pierce has virtually disappeared.
    Last edited by EngineCo2; 08-24-2006 at 10:37 PM.

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber npfd801's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101
    Also take a look at Pierce's last few quarters earnings,you might find them of interest. T.C.
    I'm interested - but where does one find such info? I found 2005 earning reports, but nothing more current.

  14. #14
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    Default

    Press releases are usually the spot to find financial statements in mid-year. For Pierce they may be on Oshkosh's site since they are the parent company.

  15. #15
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    Engineco2-I am curious about something. In your first post you say you heard that Pierce will not be customizing their rigs, while at the same time asking everyone else for tidbits. Later on you state, as fact, that the customizing has disappeared. This doesn't make any sense in a market where customizing is a big part of the picture. Want an example, take a look a E-1. They publically stated two years ago they wanted to get out of the highly custom market. look where they are at now.

    The rig that my department has on order, which was signed for in June, will be delivered in early December. It will have a 2006 engine as promised and is highly customized to meet some of our unusual requirements such as a severe height restriction.

    You know, it is possible that whatever they intoduce at the FRI show might be a good thing!

  16. #16
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    wasnt the consensus on here was pierce doesnt customize anymore anyway???

    customization slows down the line so why continue to hamper the building of other vehicles
    "Pierce: The innovator of the fire apparatus industry."

  17. #17
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    Default Oshkosh Truck third quarter report

    Here is a link to the press release for the Oshkosh Truck third quarter report. It sounds like Oshkosh / Pierce made a bunch of money. They must be doing something right.

    http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....006&highlight=

  18. #18
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    sven73: thats exactly it, they do not want to make distinct customizations to the chassis' because it will slow down their mass production. Infact this is a business where customization is key to customers however they are relying on the name to sell the product instead of what they will do for the customer

  19. #19
    Forum Member Engine305's Avatar
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    Default Pierce

    Hello all, Nj here and the company i spent my 1st 21 years in the fire service has the honor of having a 1992 Javelin pumper. Still running too. Only problem is the winter. Leave it in the firehouse in snow and ice. Was a front cab of an Arrow and the crew cab of a Lance. My present company has an enforcer rear mount on order, and I am the chairman. Saturday i got the drawings and Pierce drew the pumper with the body , deck gun etc 6" too high to fit my firehouse and over what was specified... Looks like i will be having a headache until its built and delivered in Feb 2007.

  20. #20
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    Let's see- Pierce builds about 1600-1700 trucks per year which would make them the largest producer in North America. And that is in a market that demands highly customized chassis and bodies. But they don't want to make highly customzied chassis and bodies because it will slow down their mass production? Something doesn't make sense here. If you are that successful in selling in a specific market then you must be answering that market's requirements.

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