1. #1
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    Default E-One problems: Copied from Firefighters Forum

    [I have this in Firefighters Forum as well]

    Hi all. We run all E-ones. We seem to have a tremendous amount of problems with them. Our Admin. is starting to audit this at our request to see if it is an E-one thing or if we should expect this with any manufacturer. As for our Dept., we run 7 stations, 8 companies. 7000+ calls a year. Here's a run down of some of the things we've experienced:

    New quint: Turbo shelled. Got that fixed, drive shaft fell out and knocked a hole in the transmission. All within a few weeks of being in service.

    New engine: Multiple electrical issues. Transmission switches to neutral while driving for no reason. Have to shut off and restart to get going again. AC problems. All within a few weeks of going in service.

    1998 Quint: Multiple problems over the years. Caught on fire in the station the other day.

    1996 quint: Has had 5 transmissions. Currently occasionally won't go in gear and have to restart to go

    2002 engine: Had pump fail on a couple different fires due to electrical problems. Multiple other electrical issues.

    1999 quint: Electrical short in the dash driving down the road a few years back filled with smoke.

    On all our rigs: Multiple electrical problems, AC problems, frequent break downs. Various broken springs.

    Several of our rigs short when it rains, sirens turn on by themselves, etc.

    We have an E-one dealer and service center in our City, which has led to the switch to these. Just curious what other Dept.'s experience with these and if it's just E-one. We sure seem to have a ton of problems. Thanks.
    FTM-PTB-RFB
    IACOJ

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    Local dealer or not, I'd buy something else next time. It may the local dealer mechanics causing the problems.

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    So far i see 5 things wrong with the above trucks. The engine,trasmission, pump are not made/manfactured by e-one. To me, these things are not e-one's fault.

    New quint: Turbo shelled. Got that fixed, drive shaft fell out and knocked a hole in the transmission. All within a few weeks of being in service.

    ---Not e-one's fault. Trasmission/engine maker.

    New engine: Multiple electrical issues. Transmission switches to neutral while driving for no reason. Have to shut off and restart to get going again. AC problems. All within a few weeks of going in service.

    --- Possibly E-One with wiring, also could be Transmission/engine maker


    1998 Quint: Multiple problems over the years. Caught on fire in the station the other day

    --- E-One wiring.

    1996 quint: Has had 5 transmissions. Currently occasionally won't go in gear and have to restart to go

    --- Transmission maker


    1999 quint: Electrical short in the dash driving down the road a few years back filled with smoke.

    --E-One wiring


    Several of our rigs short when it rains, sirens turn on by themselves, etc.

    -- Possibly not grounded correctly.

    Does your company for prevented maintaince? i know you company is busy, but in a long run, you may not see some problems.

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    There are a couple of things to look at and some questions
    First the transmissions going to neutral while driving down the road
    These new of trucks should be electronic transmissions
    The battery connections MUST be clean you will find some small wires about 10gage both positive and negative they Must be clean
    Next on some of the trucks of that era there was a dedicated battery for the engine and trans if so make sure it is good
    If this is not the case than watch the voltage trans could go to neutral in lo voltage condition
    If all this checks out Next
    Monitor does this happen out of nowhere or possibly when there is a radio transmission
    Possibly a new radio or cell phone
    What I am getting at is Radio Interferance I have seen this over the years
    Look to see if the cable going from the transmission to the computer control is a Shielded cable
    The computor control is either under the captians seat or in front under dash

    Rig that continually burns up transmissions
    I do not have the information but I know there is a list out there of approved list of motor oils for heavy duty use in the Allison transmissions
    This does work First time I tried I said no way I contacted local allison dealer they changed to motor iol problems went away

    Next
    Electrical issues could be anything
    But I would look at grounds this seems to be the cause of many issues especialy in emergency vehicles and the extreme use

    Next
    Drive line where did this fail as drivelines don't just fall out

    Other issues could be anything
    I hope I have shead some light on the subjects and have helped
    I do not wish to bad mouth any one
    But I have seen these issues over the years they are more common than thought and not builder specific
    Thanks
    Ray

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    Default used too

    We had some E-Ones for a while and had several issues with wiring,A/C etc. These were brand new and front line and became reserves to the older units because of unreliability. Spent many hours re-doing all sorts of things to make them work. Apparently not much has changed but that being what it is nobody who builds is perfect by any means. As far as things not being E-ones fault I figure they are because they did the installation work and if it was not done correctly to the OEM specs then E-One takes the blame. Before total judgement is passed I would want to know engine make, trans make, etc. Any outside devices such as retarders etc. Is E-One still using ground switching to activate electrical? Things like driveline angles, supports(center bearings) etc. are important. Is the electrical in a place that is subject to road contamination or from water at fire scenes etc. I have seen ff's spill things onto areas subject to liquid damage or take a garden hose to wash out the interior so make sure it isn't human error attributable to the department. RFREY1 also offer sound advice. Were these units custom spec'd or off the shelf?

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    Haven't had any problems with the doors?

    That must only be around here...
    Do it because you love it, not because you love being seen doing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lvwrench
    Were these units custom spec'd or off the shelf?
    Why should that matter? Are you implying that it's excusable for a stock truck to be a POS because it cost less? I don't buy that. These guys are making firetrucks that are expected to be dependable and reliable PERIOD. To suggest that it's acceptable or excusable for any manufacturer to cut corners or put out junk simply because it's built on a commercial chassis or it's a program truck doesn't fly.

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    We have 15 2001-2006 E-One front lines engines in service right now. The engine I'm on is a 2001 and has had problems with the A/C and multiplex. The A/C was due to a bad ground ( since that has been fixed there have been no problems other than than a line got clogged and caused it to go bad). The multi-plex system however has been another problem. Since we've had it, we gone through 6 "mother boards", and numerous trips to the shop. Part of the problem is/was that the cab leaked above the driver and got that "mother board" wet. Then there is one mounted in the pump compartment that got wet everytime it rained, since then we had a diamond plate box installed to cover it things have gotten better. Although we can no longer use the shore plug-in, everytime we drove the truck in the rain, it tried to eject the plug, although it was never pluggud-in. We had to have the shoreline/ auto eject disconnected. Now E-one says that Class 1 has revamped there multi-plex systems, only time will tell. I do know that only one of the other trucks had the same problem with the Auto-eject, it to now has a box covering its motherboard in the pump compartment

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    1996 quint: Has had 5 transmissions. Currently occasionally won't go in gear and have to restart to go

    --- Transmission maker
    I wouldn't be so quick to jump to that conclusion. A good possibility is poor engineering on E-One's part. If the engineers didnt take into consideration load and GVW ratings when approving a drivetrain for this apparatus, it could be a big problem. We have run into the same problem with Sutphen. We've gone through 2 Detroit diesels and 2 allison transmissions. The truck was engineered very poorly, and the drivetrain isn't sufficient for the set-up, hence the failures.

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    You know it's funny- every time we're chaffing about our trucks... the chiefs blame us because we're not maintaining them. How pray tell they expect us to deal with the gizmology is beyond me... but I definitely feel your pain.

    But, this isn't to say our E-One (Superior... same thing) from 2002 hasn't put in its share of hours. Nothing compared to 7000 calls a year... it's just a small town pump. Maybe that's why we haven't been having the load of problems you guys have.

    We've got a couple of their crash trucks at my industrial hall and I have to admit there are times I sort of scratch my head and wonder who in hell designed the cockpits. Considering these vehicles normally operate with only one operator...

    With that being said, the support I've had from the guys in Florida has been really good... which would seem to be a good thing because by the sounds of it we're going to need it!

    All of the above mentioned problems- including the doors- have been an issue at one time or another. The doors have been especially frustrating. The double latch will just pop off on its own and electrical... well, our northern climates have never been terribly friendly to anything electronic. (Especially voting!)

    Anyways, we're working with a Pierce engine at our industrial hall- but I can't say it's been any charm to work with either.

    I guess as they say in so many halls- better the devil you know... because each has its supporters and its detractors.

    Best of luck in your search.
    Ian "Eno" McLeod
    Senior Firefighter /EMT-A, A Shift
    HESD / OFD
    "To me, the charm of an encyclopedia is that it knows and I needn't."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eno821302
    All of the above mentioned problems- including the doors- have been an issue at one time or another. The doors have been especially frustrating.
    Amen to that!!
    Do it because you love it, not because you love being seen doing it.

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    So, what about those E-One doors. Especially on their top-of-the-line cab doors.

    What do you guys think of them?
    What if the hokey pokey IS what it's all about?

    Apparatus Operator
    Salem Fire Department
    IAFF Local 314

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    Default Doors

    We have a 1987 Hurricane with door problems too, do they make an updated design that we change out so the guys dont fall outta truck?

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    Can someone fill me in on door problems? We have had E-One's since 1991 and don't have any door problems. What are you guys running into?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    I think we have 3 E-Ones. I have never heard of a door problem. Ours range from 1990 to 1998
    This space for rent

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    To put this shortly... they don't always close properly. We find that we have to crack open the window, and close the door with just the right touch... otherwise it will be like your car door when you don't close it all the way. Basically, you can rattle the door back and forth, I never had one fly open... but they sure feel like they could with enough force. We also had problems with the inside latch not always working (that was mainly the 2000 ). But on all the E-Ones, 2000-2005 the door acted exactly the same! Not sure how else to describe it... it seems to do with the seal in the cab, because when we crack the windows before we close the doors the tend to close just fine. Who knows... they came out and adjusted the latches, didn't help. The mechanic could close them fine for the first two times, but after that.. same old, same old.

    Thankfully now, I no longer ride in E-Ones.
    Do it because you love it, not because you love being seen doing it.

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    We don't run E-One's, but we are in the process of fleet replacement. In our search we have looked at many apparatus from various manufacturers (Pierce, E-One, KME, Sutphen, ALF, etc). One thing about E-One that stood out among the rest was how cheaply built the doors were made.

    As mentioned above, none of the doors seemed to close well (cab or compartment). We found this to be true for all the apparatus they brought to our department to demonstrate and those that were displayed at our local trade show earlier in the year.

    None of the other manufacturers seemed to have this problem.

    I don't know if this is a recent change in their building style or not.
    What if the hokey pokey IS what it's all about?

    Apparatus Operator
    Salem Fire Department
    IAFF Local 314

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    "Next
    Electrical issues could be anything
    But I would look at grounds this seems to be the cause of many issues especialy in emergency vehicles and the extreme use"

    My experience is in aircraft, but with all the electrical squawks, I would look for sources of water intrusion, not just the obvious (windshield seals, antennas etc, light bar mounts) but I think I might also try to see if water might be coming in through the grill, or engine compartment area and getting behind the panel.
    You may find several of the problems you mention have the same culprit.

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    Keep one thing in mind when looking at different manufactures. There are very few who are certified by engine, pump and suspension manufacturers to do installations. You can request copies of these certifications from your local dealers. Here is a perfect example.
    Not all manufacturers are certified for engine installation. Not having this they are forced to have de-rated horse power motors. If the cooling system that they put in does not meet certain cooling aspects while driving or pumping the motors are forced to “power down” to prevent overheating. My point is look carefully into the company you plan on working with before you make a 20 year mistake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chauffer6
    Are you implying that it's excusable for a stock truck to be a POS because it cost less?
    Personally I find that stock trucks are better than tricked out highly customized rigs. The big manufacturers each offer a "Ford F-150" type rig, which they build multiple copies of all year long. The bugs have been worked out of these early in their production. When you start spec'ing very customized trucks with specialized components which the manufacturer does not work with all the time you start seeing more issues. I've got two 2001's sitting in my station, one is a 100% stock tower unit, the other a pimped out rescue pumper with CAFS, both from the same manufacturer, delievered about 4 months apart. The tower has been great, a few minor problems. The pumper, not so much. We've had issues since day one and some still persist. Next truck we buy, I'm gonna push for a stock custom cab with a small CAFS system added to it.
    Last edited by Fire304; 11-17-2006 at 06:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fire304
    Personally I find that stock trucks are better than tricked out highly customized rigs. The big manufacturers each offer a "Ford F-150" type rig, which they build multiple copies of all year long. The bugs have been worked out of these early in their production. When you start spec'ing very customized trucks with specialized components which the manufacturer does not work with all the time you start seeing more issues. I've got two 2001's sitting in my station, one is a 100% stock tower unit, the other a pimped out rescue pumper with CAFS, both from the same manufacturer, delievered about 4 months apart. The tower has been great, a few minor problems. The pumper, not so much. We've had issues since day one and some still persist. Next truck we buy, I'm gonna push for a stock custom cab with a small CAFS system added to it.
    Good post, I would tend to agree with you. Sure, there are some program trucks that are junk, but you get what you pay for, as with anything. There are also many custom rigs that are very reliable.

    On a purely personal note, I've read many times where people have faulted certain custom manufacturers for not being custom enough for their taste. Or at least, that's their opinion/perception, they may or may not have any actual experience with said manufacturers or may have a lousy, lazy dealer. In any case, I'd actually rather have a manufacturer tell me "We're really not sure we want to do this or that because we haven't had time to properly engineer it or test it" over them saying "Yeah, sure, whatever you want. Just sign the check!" Anyone can take your money and build anything you can conceive, but I believe only a responsible and honest manufacturer is going to let you cause more harm than good to yourself. Of course, some would argue that it's not their place to protect you from yourself, just like they'd argue the same about NFPA, but I couldn't disagree more. There are literally lives on the line with these trucks, both our own and the public at large, so someone has to step in and stop certain madness from time to time.

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    transmissions -

    I don't think it's e-one specific - I have seen 75' quints from various manufacturers having a "base" spec of 350-400 hp and the "small" 3060 allison or its newer equivalent. If would be running this combination fully loaded in a hilly area, a marginal transmission fails.

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    Thumbs up no problems with e-one

    have had e-ones in our station since 1991 and have had no problems with them have 3 pumpers and 1 95' ladder truck all still look in new shape take a look at our web site and see for yourself www.bloomsburgfd.org

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    I drive a '00 E-One Cyclone II pumper with about 99,000 miles on it and it makes about 4,500 runs a year. Standard pumper with 1500GPM single stage pump, 500 gallon tank, couple of crosslays, etc. Nothing special in the spec. We bought about 64 of them I believe.

    I can honestly say from personal experience that 3 things at E-One are sub standard and need serious attention:

    Fit and finish issues
    Quality control at the factory
    Electrical systems

    That being said, our pumper has held up VERY well given the daily abuse it takes. It gets rode hard and put up wet everyday and it holds up. To this day it runs strong and pumps strong.

    The station partner to this rig until about 7 months ago was a '00 E-One Hurricane 100' truck. This rig makes a boat load of runs as well and with the exception of 1 interior light switch which resulted in a pretty good fire in the cab (Actually a mobile flashover chamber we called it) the rig was flawless. Perfect aerial and outrigger design with simple and quick controls. It was replaced by a '06 Ferrara/Smeal 107' truck that is another story altogether different and went to reserve status. To this day this rig is in daily use by companies all over the city and still has a reputation for working everytime.

    Bottom line every maker has problems, E-One is no exception. But when it is all said and done, E-One aerials can NOT be beat.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by STATION2 View Post
    The station partner to this rig until about 7 months ago was a '00 E-One Hurricane 100' truck. It was replaced by a '06 Ferrara/Smeal 107' truck that is another story altogether.
    What can you tell us about the Ferrara?
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