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  1. #21
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    Default To: Bones42

    I was told by a few local fire departments that " Fire & Saftey Services " of Piscataway, N.J. , the Pierce dealership is very good to deal with on warranty type problems on fire apparatus !....
    Last edited by NewJerseyFFII; 08-22-2006 at 07:30 PM.


  2. #22
    Forum Member Chauffeur6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewJerseyFFII
    I was told by a few local fire departments that " Fire & Saftey Services " of Piscataway, N.J. , the Pierce dealership is very good to deal with on warranty type problems on fire apparatus !....
    That's who we deal with now, and we're quite happy with them. Stand up guys.

  3. #23
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    Donald:

    I am with the Terre Haute Fire Department. We are located approx. 70 miles west of Indianapolis on I-70.
    I appreciate the offer to contact your friends at KME but remember that I didn’t encourage it. I hate to have unpaid vacations for breaking the chain of command. However, if you want to make the call and say “Hey, I heard Terre Haute was having problems can you help them out?” that would be great. As a side note the truck is out of service and a factory rep is picking it up and taking it back to the factory for repairs.

  4. #24
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    With the last Pierce we got they were very good. With the latest one, it almost seems as if they aren't quite familiar enough with the new systems to adequately repair them. I'm sure they will get it all straightened out, it's just taking time. I'm just not a big fan of "accepting" lots of minor issues on something new just because it's new and there is so much on it. Also, they have been excellent salespeople to work with as far as the entire speccing/purchasing process. I'd highly recommend them for that.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  5. #25
    Forum Member Chauffeur6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42
    With the last Pierce we got they were very good. With the latest one, it almost seems as if they aren't quite familiar enough with the new systems to adequately repair them. I'm sure they will get it all straightened out, it's just taking time. I'm just not a big fan of "accepting" lots of minor issues on something new just because it's new and there is so much on it. Also, they have been excellent salespeople to work with as far as the entire speccing/purchasing process. I'd highly recommend them for that.
    I hear ya Bones, and I definitely agree. It is frustrating when the dealer's service dept appears to not be keeping up with the new technology introduced by the manufacturer. Sometimes I almost feel like there is so much competition out there that the manufacturers rush the new bells and whistles out quicker than they have a chance to properly train their sales and service network.

    We've dealt with F&SS's service dept a few times already, and on balance have been pleased with the results. Then again, we haven't had any issues to date with the midmount's multiplex system. I have heard of other depts having issues with it though. The only experience we've really had with the service dept was for mechanical or collision damage repair.

  6. #26
    Forum Member Chauffeur6's Avatar
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    I would like to make one point regarding the midmounts. Back in 2000/2001 when we were spec'ing ours, the Pierce dealer was explaining the benefits of their multiplexed chassis electrical systems and similarly multiplexed electronic over hydraulic aerial controls (Command Zone, as Pierce calls their system). Not once did they knock the competition for having traditional wiring and hydraulic controls. In fact, they did explain to us that it was fairly new technology for the fire service, but since fly-by-wire has been in use for a while in the aerospace industry, they were fully confident in it performing up to task. In contrast, it seemed the only thing the KME dealer could do was knock the fact that Pierce used "new and unproven technology" and that their direct hydraulic system was proven over many, many decades and was "safer".

    Of course, anyone who is familiar with the KME AerialCat series should know that they now employ their "IQAN E-Control Motion System", which is...surprise!...a MULTIPLEXED ELECTRONIC OVER HYDRAULIC SYSTEM! Isn't it amazing how in 2 to 3 short years, they've all of a sudden adopted and endorsed the very system they were putting down?

    http://fire.kovatch.com/Default.aspx?tabid=71

  7. #27
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Department nearby has a Grumman Aerialcat, from before KME bought them out. Out of service way more than in service, water came out everywere except the nozzle on the basket, sometimes the ladder would raise, sometimes not, etc. The full laundry list of problems.

    Not too long ago, they had it refurbed by KME. Has been (from what I have been told) a wonderful truck since then with no problems.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chauffer6
    I would like to make one point regarding the midmounts. Back in 2000/2001 when we were spec'ing ours, the Pierce dealer was explaining the benefits of their multiplexed chassis electrical systems and similarly multiplexed electronic over hydraulic aerial controls (Command Zone, as Pierce calls their system). Not once did they knock the competition for having traditional wiring and hydraulic controls. In fact, they did explain to us that it was fairly new technology for the fire service, but since fly-by-wire has been in use for a while in the aerospace industry, they were fully confident in it performing up to task. In contrast, it seemed the only thing the KME dealer could do was knock the fact that Pierce used "new and unproven technology" and that their direct hydraulic system was proven over many, many decades and was "safer".

    Of course, anyone who is familiar with the KME AerialCat series should know that they now employ their "IQAN E-Control Motion System", which is...surprise!...a MULTIPLEXED ELECTRONIC OVER HYDRAULIC SYSTEM! Isn't it amazing how in 2 to 3 short years, they've all of a sudden adopted and endorsed the very system they were putting down?

    http://fire.kovatch.com/Default.aspx?tabid=71
    How is your tower doing, anyway? I heard you guys had some problems with it in the beginning, but I havent heard much since then. Maybe one of these days we'll get to see it at a fire (The whole county is gonna be in trouble if that scenario occurs)

    Anyway, we have 2 KME engines, a 1995 and a 2001. We havent had any major problems with them, and they are both in good shape. Our new aerial is going to be an ALF, though.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

  9. #29
    Forum Member Chauffeur6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl
    How is your tower doing, anyway? I heard you guys had some problems with it in the beginning, but I havent heard much since then. Maybe one of these days we'll get to see it at a fire (The whole county is gonna be in trouble if that scenario occurs)

    Anyway, we have 2 KME engines, a 1995 and a 2001. We havent had any major problems with them, and they are both in good shape. Our new aerial is going to be an ALF, though.
    The issues we had in the beginning weren't too bad. The transmission blew a few days after it was delivered (we hadn't even signed the check yet!) and then there was the issue with the bucket that was fixed quickly. Every other problem has been operator error of some kind! Let's see...first there was the time the guy from the dealership was pulling it out of the firehouse to drive it down to Jersey for the bucket issue, and he smashed the rear end into the side of the bay door wall when he turned the truck too soon. Then there was the time at the Teplitz fire when they lowered one of the outriggers AFTER they had already pinned it. And most recently, when they bottomed it out and tore up the entire underbody of the rear end in the Valley. It was OOS for a few months after that one. Otherwise, it's been fine. My only real gripe with it is the huge overhang of the rear end and how low it is to the ground back there. Leaves very little room for driver error or miscalculation. It's a solid truck otherwise, and paired with the 75 (which is nice and compact and single axle), I think we have pretty good versatility.

    I can't believe it's coming up on 4 years since the night we had our wetdowns. Wow, where does the time go? Which ALF are you looking to replace the 75 with and when do you guys expect to have it? It's kinda sad, I'm pretty sure your truck is the last of the original ALFs in the county now that 17-Quint is retired. End of an era.

  10. #30
    Forum Member nyckftbl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chauffer6
    The issues we had in the beginning weren't too bad. The transmission blew a few days after it was delivered (we hadn't even signed the check yet!) and then there was the issue with the bucket that was fixed quickly. Every other problem has been operator error of some kind! Let's see...first there was the time the guy from the dealership was pulling it out of the firehouse to drive it down to Jersey for the bucket issue, and he smashed the rear end into the side of the bay door wall when he turned the truck too soon. Then there was the time at the Teplitz fire when they lowered one of the outriggers AFTER they had already pinned it. And most recently, when they bottomed it out and tore up the entire underbody of the rear end in the Valley. It was OOS for a few months after that one. Otherwise, it's been fine. My only real gripe with it is the huge overhang of the rear end and how low it is to the ground back there. Leaves very little room for driver error or miscalculation. It's a solid truck otherwise, and paired with the 75 (which is nice and compact and single axle), I think we have pretty good versatility.

    I can't believe it's coming up on 4 years since the night we had our wetdowns. Wow, where does the time go? Which ALF are you looking to replace the 75 with and when do you guys expect to have it? It's kinda sad, I'm pretty sure your truck is the last of the original ALFs in the county now that 17-Quint is retired. End of an era.
    We are getting this: http://www.americanlafrance.com/inte...060&p=1005&s=0

    Yeah, the 75 has been very good to us over the years. We are trying to talk to the manufacturer, to see if maybe before it leaves, if we can take the nameplate off of the front and have it put on our new rig, just alittle tradition. Personally, I cant wait to see the thing go, because I cant drive it, and we have a lot of chauffers who have refused to drive it over the years. But I know there are going to be some very sad members when that thing finally leaves the firehouse.

    P.S.- Im sure you heard, but our dept. was very grateful that you guys were able to take a rig down to our wetdown, and that we were able to return the favor. It was a great night.
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

  11. #31
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    To Ladder 5B

    I am sitting with a KME delivery engineer on my shoulder. He has offered to address any of your problems if you will contact him at KMETECH1@yahoo.com I suspect that, based upon your original thread that there has been a considerable lack of training and proper information transmitted to your department and between your department and KME. Here is an offer you can't pass up. Delivery engineer wants to provide you and your company with information and assistance that you need.

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