On Native Soil Documentary

**SUNSHINE1** · 08-22-2006, 08:24 PM

I'm brand new, so if this has been posted, forgive me. I watched in horror the doc. about 9/11; and cried as though it was just happening all over again. I don't even live in NY, I live in PA; but that day angers the h3ll outta me! I wondered if any of the firefighter's on here are able/allowed to answer this question. They said that the NYPD helicopter that was above the WTC's was *not* able to communicate to the FDNY that the South Tower was going to come down. MY QUESTION: Since that horrible day of 9/11, are the NYPD and FDNY *ABLE* to communicate via radio? Or are you still on seperate frequencies? If you *are* able now to have shared communication; what is the system called so I can read up on it? I never even realized that FD's and PD's couldn't communicate, other than maybe through a dispatcher; which wouldn't be of help when you need the ACTUAL firefighters and police officers to know what to do in an event like what those POS's did that day. I realize that day was outta nowhere; but my goodness, I hope to God you all are able to just radio each other for your own safety, as well as the public. God bless New York and all that everyone serving the public did that day, and continues to do. My heart aches for those lost on 9/11. Thank you for your time reading my somewhat lengthy question. :-)

**TLFD40** · 08-22-2006, 09:33 PM

I am 99% sure that the both departments now have a compatible radio system they can communicate on. You might get some info from this site.

http://www.n2nov.net/

**SUNSHINE1** · 08-23-2006, 01:14 AM

Thank you for replying. I looked at the site you provided, and it's confusing to me. I'm not a firefighter or a cop, so I don't know what I'm suppose to look at to confirm it lol. Can you tell me which link to look at specifically? I was just astonished that the FF's and PO's weren't able to communicate that day. That seems like it would be a priority after the horrible events of that day. I can't even imagine how frustrating that must have been for everyone in all emergency departments. Thanks, Dee

**rfdlou** · 08-23-2006, 02:08 PM

It is very unlikely that Police Officers and Firefighters would have communicated directly even if they had radios that were capable. The FDNY and NYPD each consider itself operationally independent. Both FDNY and NYPD protocols called for FDNY personnel to be placed in NYPD helicopters in the event of an attempted rooftop rescue at a high-rise fire. No FDNY personnel were placed in NYPD helicopters on September 11.
From The 911 Report "Information that was critical to informed decisionmaking was not shared among agencies. FDNY chiefs in leadership roles that morning have told us that their decision making capability was hampered by a lack of information from NYPD aviation. At 9:51 A.M., a helicopter pilot cautioned that “large pieces” of the South Tower appeared to be about to fall and could pose a danger
The FDNY chiefs would have benefited greatly had they been able to communicate with personnel in a helicopter.
The consequence of the lack of real-time intelligence from NYPD aviation
should not be overstated. Contrary to a widely held misperception,no NYPD
helicopter predicted the fall of either tower before the South Tower collapsed,and no NYPD personnel began to evacuate the WTC complex prior to that time.Furthermore,the FDNY, as an institution,was in possession of the knowledge that the South Tower had collapsed as early as the NYPD, as its fall had been immediately reported by an FDNY boat on a dispatch channel. Because of internal breakdowns within the department, however, this information was not disseminated to FDNY personnel on the scene.It is clear that the lack of coordination did not affect adversely
the evacuation of civilians. It is equally clear, however, that the Incident Command System did not function to integrate awareness among agencies or to facilitate interagency response

**SUNSHINE1** · 08-25-2006, 03:12 PM

Oh, wow! Thank you for a well thought out response. :-) Okay, that seems to make sense that they wouldn't have communicated, however, do they *now* communicate since it seems both depts. must have felt frustration on that horrible day? Correct me if I'm wrong; but then what you mean is basically the FF's on the ground did their job irregardless of the info that might have been provided via helicopters, boats, whatever means? (Please don't get me wrong. I feel ALL involved gave 100% or MORE that day; and I will forever see them as heroes.) Nobody could've predicted what the POS's would've done what they did that day. They are at fault, not any agencies. I'm sure that lack of communication didn't hinder the job at hand, as far as rescue efforts. People just did what they had to do! Some giving their own lives in the process, which is very, very sad. When I say sad, I mean for *anybody* that died that day. You know, I wondered if that was true about an NYPD helicopter knowing first! I watched the documentary with some sceptisism, cos basically I don't believe much of anything the news reports lol. Especially if it's CNN. Ugh. In summary, how do you feel the Incident Command System has changed since then, or has it not? I would hope that both depts. at least have the *option* of communicating, if need be. Again, I appreciate what time you took to explain this to me. :-)

**rfdlou** · 08-25-2006, 05:41 PM

The Incident Command System has now evolved into NIMS http://www.nimsonline.com/

Onboard the NYPD helicopter should have been an FDNY Chief relaying his observations directly to the Chiefs on the fireground. A Police Officer just is not qualified to advise the FD.

**SUNSHINE1** · 08-26-2006, 04:03 AM

Thank you for the website. :-) I don't have time now as I just got off work; but I will look at it. That seems to make sense, as it seems as though they would be well trained to assess. Another question for you lol. When you say <<Onboard the NYPD helicopter should have been an FDNY Chief relaying his observations to the Chiefs on the fireground.>>, do you mean there *was* an NYPD helicopter at above the WTC Tower's, or do you mean hypothetically? I thought you had said there was no NYPD helicopter above the WTC? I'm just curious, as there was a helicopter shown in the documentary; but perhaps that was a news crew. I'm not sure, as I don't live in NY, I live in PA. I work all weekend; but hopefully will have a chance to peruse the site you've provided. I'm very appreciative for you taking the time! Gosh, it just seems firefighter's have one heck of a hard and dangerous job, not to say police officer's don't. I think BOTH are underpaid and underappreciated.

I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR NOT BEING RUDE AFTER THE LAST PERSON DIRECTLY INSULTED ME.

**SUNSHINE1** · 09-07-2006, 03:24 PM

Anybody care to respond to this? ;-) Thank you!

**SUNSHINE1** · 09-11-2006, 02:37 PM

Guess not lol. Oh well...

**RspctFrmCalgary** · 09-11-2006, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by SUNSHINE1

Guess not lol. Oh well...

One would naturally assume that most FDNY firefighters probably have other things on their mind this week than replying to your thread, especially today.

With all the 911 specials this past week, plus website after website, and any number of books that have been written on the subject, perhaps you would be better served by researching some of these other sources in the meantime. Of course, you may never get more replies. It is rather a controversial and sensitive subject that the firefighters may not feel comfortable talking about with a civilian such as yourself.

**SUNSHINE1** · 09-11-2006, 11:39 PM

<<<RspctFrmCalgary Quote:
Originally Posted by SUNSHINE1
Guess not lol. Oh well...

One would naturally assume that most FDNY firefighters probably have other things on their mind this week than replying to your thread, especially today.

With all the 911 specials this past week, plus website after website, and any number of books that have been written on the subject, perhaps you would be better served by researching some of these other sources in the meantime. Of course, you may never get more replies. It is rather a controversial and sensitive subject that the firefighters may not feel comfortable talking about with a civilian such as yourself.>>>

WTF????!!!!!! How rude and uncalled for! You don't know a THING about me, nor do you know my OCCUPATION or what I lost on 9/11! To directly insult me is childish, instead of welcoming someone that doesn't exactly know the forum yet! How dare you be so presumptuious in an attempt to be a tool! Maybe you took something I said wrong. (The Guess not lol...oh well...was my way of just keeping it light and friendly. I have shed many, many, tears due to 9/11.) You have NO BUSINESS telling me or ANYBODY what they may or may not ask or write about! It's people like you that I call trolls, for instigating trouble. If you don't want to answer with RESPECT, then do not answer at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As for the FDNY, you're damn right I know what else may be on their minds this week!!! More then you'll ever know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did you see the members rfdlou or TLFD40 be anything but polite and helpful? NO-you did not. Because you are a tool, and you had NO BUSINESS RESPONDING IN THE MANNER THAT YOU DID. Reported for your absolute idiotic post to me. No crap it's a <<<sensitive subject>>>. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out, and firefighters are the bravest of the brave. You might want to reconsider who you respond to and the manner in which you do!!!!!!! You can drop the "RSPCT" sn on your name...you don't know what respect is, and probably never will.
I just looked at your profile. You are not a firefighter, so you definitely had no business responding to me.

**Steamer** · 09-12-2006, 12:05 AM

Get a britches out of a bunch, Sunshine. She wasn't being disrespectful at all. You aren't the first to come on the website and ask questions ad nauseum about every little issue that has come up surrounding the events of that day. The only thing she said was that people may be a little "pre-occupied" with everything going on, so you may not get a response right away.

If in fact you have, "cried as though it was just happening all over again", you of all people should understand why people aren't responding to your questions right now. Don't expect them to just jump in and start firing off answers to everything you ask about. Give them some time to regroup, for Pete's sake.

**SUNSHINE1** · 09-12-2006, 03:00 AM

WRONG. It was disrespectful & if this <<<little issue>>> was asked before, how in the hell would I be aware of that when I just joined & am not familiar with the forum? No need to answer. Do I feel as though it was <<<just happening all over again>>>. Who the hell doesn't, for Christs sake?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The pain IS as present now as it was then, so don't YOU tell ME to regroup! Believe me, I expect NOTHING from anyone from this forum, & my <<<britches>>> are just fine & I don't take crap from anyone! My post was from August 23rd, so it is NOT a brand new post as of today, and I really don't give a $hit if anyone answers anything I have to say. Apparently, you're all a bunch of hateful morons that don't accept newcomers. LIVE WITH IT! You all did it, not I.

This type of crap only PROVES to me that America has learned NOTHING from 9/11, if all one can do is post back as though I've killed someone. This is EXACTLY what we hate about our enemy & this only perpetuates the hatred when you go at other people like you both have done.

No need to respond. This thread is unsubscribed from by me. I don't need this BS in my life. God!

**2andfrom** · 09-12-2006, 04:06 AM

Anyone for a paranoia pill?

**RspctFrmCalgary** · 09-12-2006, 09:42 AM

WTF???!!!!

My post was in NO WAY disrespectful.

WTF????!!!!!! How rude and uncalled for! You don't know a THING about me, nor do you know my OCCUPATION YOU brought up the fact that you are not a firefighter or cop or what I lost on 9/11! To directly insult me is childish, I didn't insult you in any way, shape or form instead of welcoming someone that doesn't exactly know the forum yet! How dare you be so presumptuious in an attempt to be a tool! Maybe you took something I said wrong. (The Guess not lol...oh well...was my way of just keeping it light and friendly. I have shed many, many, tears due to 9/11.) I never said you didn'tYou have NO BUSINESS telling me or ANYBODY what they may or may not ask or write about! I did not tell anyone what they may or may not ask or write about, I suggested PATIENCE and alternate sources IN THE MEANTIME It's people like you that I call trolls, for instigating trouble. If you don't want to answer with RESPECT, then do not answer at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As for the FDNY, you're damn right I know what else may be on their minds this week!!! More then you'll ever know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did you see the members rfdlou or TLFD40 be anything but polite and helpful? NO-you did not. Because you are a tool, and you had NO BUSINESS RESPONDING IN THE MANNER THAT YOU DID. Reported for your absolute idiotic post to me. No crap it's a <<<sensitive subject>>>. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out, and firefighters are the bravest of the brave. You might want to reconsider who you respond to and the manner in which you do!!!!!!! You can drop the "RSPCT" sn on your name...you don't know what respect is, and probably never will.
I just looked at your profile. You are not a firefighter, so you definitely had no business responding to me.

Believe me, I expect NOTHING from anyone from this forum, & my <<<britches>>> are just fine & I don't take crap from anyone! My post was from August 23rd, so it is NOT a brand new post as of today, and I really don't give a $hit if anyone answers anything I have to say. Apparently, you're all a bunch of hateful morons that don't accept newcomers. LIVE WITH IT! You all did it, not I.

This type of crap only PROVES to me that America has learned NOTHING from 9/11, if all one can do is post back as though I've killed someone. This is EXACTLY what we hate about our enemy & this only perpetuates the hatred when you go at other people like you both have done.

No need to respond. This thread is unsubscribed from by me. I don't need this BS in my life. God!

And obviously you DO "give a *****" if anyone replies to your thread, otherwise you wouldn't keep begging for those replies and then tearing into the person that gives a possible explanation as to why there had not been posts between the 7th (Thursday - your first "anyone?") and Monday (the 11th, the least likely day for anyone from FDNY to talk about this subject on a public forum).

You sure are filled with hate.

**blancety** · 09-12-2006, 05:02 PM

Hmm...12 posts and at least 5 of em are in this thread. They should make you go to class before you start posting!

**DeputyChiefGonzo** · 09-12-2006, 08:05 PM

Sunshine... nobody was rude to you or insulted you.
I don't know where you are getting that from.

The firefighters of the FDNY and the police officers of the NYPD and PAPD are still in the healing process, as are the families of those killed on Flights 11, 175, 77 and 93 and those in the towers.

Many of us have been to Ground Zero to pay our respects.

Your angry tirade is no way to win friends on this forum.

It is "virtual firehouse".. warts and all. It also goes beyond being "virtual" Many of us have met for real, putting a face with the name.

Just an FYI.. the webteam has no tolerance for tirades such as yours. You owe everyone here an apology. If you can't handle the truth, then you probably shouldn't post here.

**RspctFrmCalgary** · 09-12-2006, 08:42 PM

You know, I just have to laugh at some of this. Perhaps reading comprehension should be part of that class, Dave.

Sunshine,

so don't YOU tell ME to regroup!

Steamer was NOT telling YOU to regroup, he was asking you to give the BROTHERS time to regroup. Read it again.

Originally Posted by Steamer

Give them some time to regroup, for Pete's sake.

when you go at other people like you both have done.

Better look in the mirror.

You all did it, not I.

Not quite sure what this means

So let's review, shall we?

1. You started a thread, got a few replies. Congratulations. At least you got some replies. A ton of us have started threads that don't get a reply at all LOL.

2. On the 7th, right BEFORE September 11th memorial events are really starting to gear up, right AFTER firefighters finish burying more of their brothers, you expressed a desire for more replies.

3. Let's see ... September 8th, 9th, 10th, and 11th were undoubtedly very difficult, quite likely very busy days, between work and memorials, inner reflection, getting drunk, holding families close, meeting visiting crusties, or whatever way these men and women chose to get through the weekend.

Probably no desire to come on the forums to discuss the very event that murdered the brothers they are mourning, on this, the 5th anniversary.

4. On September 11th, you express "displeasure" that nobody seems to be interested in answering your questions. Not very tactful.

5. I reply, suggesting a possible explanation as to why there had not been any replies in the past few days, and offering alternate sources for you to look for information IN THE MEANTIME. Do you know what "in the meantime" means?????

6. You FREAK OUT and ATTACK instead of saying something like "Oh thanks, Rspct. I didn't think of that. I'll wait a few days and see what happens."

**RspctFrmCalgary** · 09-12-2006, 08:48 PM

Thank you, Ron. You posted while I was doing the long-winded thing.

I could care less about the attack on me, it is the disrespect shown the brothers, in New York and here on the forums, that matters.

Thank you to everyone for standing up for me. It is all about respecting the brotherhood, even if I'm not a part of it.

**2andfrom** · 09-12-2006, 10:11 PM

Thank you to everyone for standing up for me. It is all about respecting the brotherhood, even if I'm not a part of it.[/QUOTE]

Sorry mate-you are wrong on that last bit--you are part of the Brotherhood simply because you care about the Brotherhood--consider yourself told off!

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On Native Soil Documentary

Yes sir they do

On Native Soil Documentary

no NYPD helicopter predicted the fall of either tower

For rdflou

Nims

Anybody?

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Steamer

Medication time?

Not so

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