1. #1
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    Default Hotel Door Locks

    I just got done talking with a manufacture that makes the door locks for hotels. Just thought I would try and put out some information on them.
    1. I was tols by the owner, "you guys cant beat these doors down, and prying it open will not work".
    2. They work off of AA batteries, and have to be replaced around every 18 months.
    3. If the batteries are dead, you need a special "jumper" cable, and master swipe key to make entry.
    4. There is a tool that he had that I am trying to get for entry. He called it, "A Mule Tool". It is a bendable rod with a cable attached. You stay low, slide the end where the cable and rod attach underneath the door, latch the knob on the inside of the door, pull down on the tool, and the door will pop open with pressure from your head against the door.
    Pretty cool. Just a little FYI.
    I'll try and post some pictures.
    Stay safe!

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    Quote Originally Posted by capt4704
    ......."you guys cant beat these doors down....

    I'm not sure if he has seen some firefighters in action.
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    Trust me, I am one of those Firefighters in action. Sometimes you need to use the head and work smarter. Please take no offense. I have forced alot of doors, and these types of locks WILL give us problems.

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    Oh I believe you. I was just being a pain in the arse.
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    Trying to get the pictures on here.

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    We had a hotel fire that I was on in a neighboring town. Conventional forcible entry works just fine, however when another crew came in with the rabbit tool it was all over for the doors.
    No problem at all.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Quote Originally Posted by capt4704
    I just got done talking with a manufacture that makes the door locks for hotels. Just thought I would try and put out some information on them.
    1. I was tols by the owner, "you guys cant beat these doors down, and prying it open will not work".
    2. They work off of AA batteries, and have to be replaced around every 18 months.
    3. If the batteries are dead, you need a special "jumper" cable, and master swipe key to make entry.
    4. There is a tool that he had that I am trying to get for entry. He called it, "A Mule Tool". It is a bendable rod with a cable attached. You stay low, slide the end where the cable and rod attach underneath the door, latch the knob on the inside of the door, pull down on the tool, and the door will pop open with pressure from your head against the door.
    Pretty cool. Just a little FYI.
    I'll try and post some pictures.
    Stay safe!
    I'd like to see these locks and doors that can't be pried open. Sounds like a confiedent salesman.

    FTM-PTB

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    I'd like to see these locks and doors that can't be pried open. Sounds like a confiedent salesman.

    FTM-PTB
    Absolutely! How does the lock affect the frame? Hotels are built cheap and fast, the frames of interior door in sprinklered building are usually wood. Conventional prying tools or a hydra-ram should work fine. Some non-sprinklered buildings require rated doors with metal frames, but often not high-end stuff.

    As for laying on the floor and using pressure from your head to open an inswing door: I hope there's no fire in there:Use your head, don't lead with it!

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    Default COuld have used this...

    We could have used this the other day... But we managed to take in the door which was quite fun :-)

    I'd like to see how well this new system really worked... SOunds like it takes a lot of time....

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    If we're trying to just unlock a locked door then the tool that the salesman had would be fine. Does no damage, but takes awhile. If we need to get in a room, I'm sure we'll find a way, the door might not ever close properly again, but that's easily replaceable.
    Fir Na Tine
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    Using the mule tool takes less than 15 seconds. I am not saying to use your head, but while you are working with the tool slight pressure from your head can be applied to the door, and when it opens the mule tool controls the door from swinging open. As soon as I can get more info from the manufacture, I'll pass it on.

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    The hotel locks, at least in the one my job has been doing construction in, are no more than a typical single deadbolt(if locked by the guest from the inside) and locking strike. Most of the commercial locks that we need to force are basically the same.

    Don't let the card key lock in hotels fool you. True, they a bitch if you want to keep the door intact, but if the FD is there, why do we want to do that?

    I'd say the rabbit tool would make very quick work of this lock.

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    I don't see that much of a problem with the card locks.

    if it is a sheetrock wall just knock a hole in the wall large enogh to get your arm through and turn the knob. If the dead bolt is locked flip the switch. Hotel deadbolts don't have a key hole on the inside for the dead bolt. Some even free the dead bolt when the knob is turned.

    If that does not work or is not possible then grab the rabbit tool

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    You may not be able to open the lock, but what would stop you from a halligan + sledge approach? These locks are only as strong as the weakest component...
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

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    This may be a dumb question so dont get to excited over it since I have not been to the fire academy yet.......

    Whats wrong with going through the window that usually in every hotel/motel room?
    Warm Regards,
    Shawn Stoner
    EMT-B

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSTONER
    This may be a dumb question so dont get to excited over it since I have not been to the fire academy yet.......

    Whats wrong with going through the window that usually in every hotel/motel room?
    How you gonna get there if it's on say... the 10th floor? Even a 100 foot aerial won't be able to reach that once you take into consideration a set back.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

    I A C O J
    FTM-PTB


    Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Res343cue
    How you gonna get there if it's on say... the 10th floor? Even a 100 foot aerial won't be able to reach that once you take into consideration a set back.

    Ah! Well I had a motel 6 in mind I guess! We probaly have one Hotel in the city over 2 stories in the city - all the others are resorts here in Tucson. But I see what you are talking about.

    I was thinking your basic cheap hotel - ya know the one I can afford!
    Warm Regards,
    Shawn Stoner
    EMT-B

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSTONER
    This may be a dumb question so dont get to excited over it since I have not been to the fire academy yet.......

    Whats wrong with going through the window that usually in every hotel/motel room?
    What about attacking the fire within the room? This would kinda be an exterior attack if you entered from outside and pushed in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    I'd like to see these locks and doors that can't be pried open. Sounds like a confiedent salesman.

    FTM-PTB
    Or someone who hasn't learned not to bet a FF that he can't do it.Hope he brings his wallet when someone calls him on it.

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    yeah didja ever watch cops. how many times have we seen them beat down a door to go in. this salessman hasn't met an individual as determined as a firefighter. if we need to we will find a way into fort knox. if needed.

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    I think we will be just fine using conventional forcible entry or the bunny (rabbit) tool.

    This guy is probably trying to say, "come to the front desk and get this tool before you start breaking my doors" and just didn't know how to say it. However, the way he did say it states to most firefighters, "I want to be the first one to break this door". Silly him!

    There are several reasons to force the door but the most important one is in a fire condition. You don't want to attack a fire through a window since it will make the hallways (and maybe the stairs) untenable and further trap the occupants. Place the line between the occupants and the fire to protect them and the stairs.
    Good Luck, Stay Low & Stay Safe

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    Default Force

    Alot of ideas, but what about controling the door. Going thru the sheetrock is an option, but what do you do you do if you have fire in that room? How will you control that? You cant take pieces of drywall and put it back in the hole you just made. What about the elderly person who has fallen in the room and it is an EMS run. Great P.R. smashing doors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by capt4704
    Alot of ideas, but what about controling the door. Going thru the sheetrock is an option, but what do you do you do if you have fire in that room? How will you control that? You cant take pieces of drywall and put it back in the hole you just made. What about the elderly person who has fallen in the room and it is an EMS run. Great P.R. smashing doors.

    What about the PR about us taking 8 minutes to get in the door because someone was worried about ::::heaven forbid:::: a easily replaceable door!

    If you cant force a door conventionally, with the irons or the hydra ram, and control it if there is fire behind it, its time to drill.
    As for the EMS run, use your judgement. If you are on the 10th floor of a hotel, and there are numerous people who are sure Old Miss Betsy is in there, then by all means take the door.!
    Proud East Coast Traditionalist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by capt4704
    Alot of ideas, but what about controling the door. Going thru the sheetrock is an option, but what do you do you do if you have fire in that room? How will you control that? You cant take pieces of drywall and put it back in the hole you just made.
    If this was an issue: (normally it's not since a line would be there)

    I would enter the room that I forced as a point of refuge BEFORE forcing the room that is on fire. Then I would tear the bathroom door off of the hinges, drag it into the hallway and place it over the hole in the wall. It's not going to be an airtight seal, but it will do the trick to buy you time.

    I would have to say if the fire was going to vent out of this hole in the wall that the door would be showing some signs of fire and we probably wouldn't breach the wall. Fire around the frame, at the top or a cherry red or burning wooden door would be some of these signs.

    For an EMS run, I would probably wait for the keys (as the front desk would probably already know about the run) for a reasonable amount of time. If they didn't get there in a timely manner, then the door should be taken.

    Just my 2 cents.
    Good Luck, Stay Low & Stay Safe

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    Quote Originally Posted by capt4704
    Alot of ideas, but what about controling the door. Going thru the sheetrock is an option, but what do you do you do if you have fire in that room? How will you control that? You cant take pieces of drywall and put it back in the hole you just made. What about the elderly person who has fallen in the room and it is an EMS run. Great P.R. smashing doors.
    Have an open hole? Need to control it...simple, look down the hall and remove the next apartments door or one from a closet or interior bedroom, anywhere...and slam that over the uncontroled opening.

    Great PR? If someone needs EMS attention...a door seems a bit of a trivial thing to be concerned about doesn't it? A lockset can be replaced...Grandma can't.

    FTM-PTB

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