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  1. #1
    Forum Member MMA10mm's Avatar
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    Default Controversial FUN (not a brand war)

    Taking into consideration the standard list of required equipment (by both ISO & NFPA) for Engine and Truck companies, what, in your opinion, equipment that they "require" is unnecessary and why?

    (Feel free to chime in if you think every piece of that equipment is absolutely vital as well, but also justify that argument.)

    Let's save for another thread the debate over what equipment SHOULD be required but isn't... I'll start one of those in a few days when this one's died out, if one of youse don't beat me to it.


  2. #2
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    Default Out with ISO

    It is my personal belief that ISO is an outdated, ineffective way to measure the capabilities of a department and its abilities. Some of the equipment they require is ridiculous. When was the last time you used a Cooper hose jacket? How about a distributor nozzle? Hose clamp? But where are the points for a thermal imager which actually can make a difference? Also, there is no differentiation between a pre-plumbed foam system and an eductor that collects dust in the back compartment.

    Then there is the "needed fire flow" for your community. I would guess that if you have to move 6,000 gallons of water that you are not saving much property (the only thing that ISO is concerned with).

    I believe that an agency such as the Commission on Fire Accreditation International is much better at measuring the effectiveness of a department. And no, I am not affiliated with this organization in any way.

    My home is insured by State Farm who hasn't used ISO in a number of years. They have a calculation to figure what the monetary fire losses are for the zip code you are located in. In my particular area I notice that regardless of who's jurisdiction the fire is in, the outcomes are generally similiar when averaged out.

  3. #3
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GFD940
    My home is insured by State Farm who hasn't used ISO in a number of years. They have a calculation to figure what the monetary fire losses are for the zip code you are located in. In my particular area I notice that regardless of who's jurisdiction the fire is in, the outcomes are generally similiar when averaged out.
    But, if your fire department makes some drastic improvements, it takes many, many years for a State Farm premium to reflect that. What this affects primarily is getting a tax measure passed. You can sell it to the taxpayers if you can point them to a premium that will actually decrease by more than the tax increased. Not so with State Farm.

    Birken

  4. #4
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    Default

    My main concern is if I have a fire at my house can the responding department put it out.

    Just because a dept. has a new $400,000 pumper that meets ISO requirements doesn't mean anything to me. Does ISO take level of training into consideration? No. Does CAFI take level of training into consideration?
    Yes.

    The Commission for Accreditation of Fire Int. sets benchmarks for a department to be the best it possibly can be. ISO does not. With proper training a person can put out a fire with a truck that does not meet all of the ISO criteria than a department with the latest and greatest but don't know what they are doing.

    I would be willing to pay an extra $50 a year to not have to live in a hotel for 3 months while my house is being restored.

    Generally, the capabilities of fire protection is a regional thing. With ISO you could be a class 6 while your next door neighbor who happens to be in a different jurisdiction is a class 2. Who responds? Probably both. What's the outcome if either house catches fire? Probably the same.

    Just my thoughts about ISO

  5. #5
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    Default just a thought; err I mean opinion

    I think that there are things within NFPA, ISO and the CAFI that are valid and good to protect the fire services and the public. The problem is that I feel too many departments place a major emphasis on going out of their way to receive the highest rankings possible and be certified when they drop the ball on new hire qualifications, training, common sense, logic and meeting the need without feeling like you have to have every piece of equipment even if you will never use it. Politics, PC and all show;no go get in the way of getting the job done without the frills and extras we can do without. Just an observation from where I sit and live.

  6. #6
    Forum Member MMA10mm's Avatar
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    Default

    C'mon guys, this was supposed to be a fun, semi-light-hearted thread, not a political hashing over who's insurance measurement makes more sense...

    I'm thinking of things that seem silly or ridiculous on the list of "standard" or "required" equipment. I'd like to hear what others leave off their trucks, because they don't see any sense in it whatsoever.

    For example, I know some folks on another thread commented that a burst hose jacket is old school to them, while another poster said he's used his a few times in the last 15 years...

    Personally, I see little use for a flat-head axe, when you have a perfectly good pick-head axe, halligan, and sledge available.

    So, to reiterate: what do you find silly/unnecessary on the NFPA/ISO equipment lists?

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