Thread: Helmet ?

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbir39
    I help instruct firefighter I & II classess here in my county, usually as the fire tender in live burns. I have seen numerous bullard helmets bubble, and melt in the same heat as cairns helmets. The cairns lids are always fine. Go with Cairns and You will not be sorry. Also, as said before, Ebay has some really great deals. Or go here www.thefirestore.com they usually have the best prices and sometimes have sales.

    Just my 2 round Lincoln's

    P.S. Whatever you do get the PBI earlaps instead of the Nomex, it holds up better and offers you more protection, and is harder to burn through!

    Stay Safe
    You're comparing thermoplastic helmets to fibreglass helmets, which is unfair. Both helmets were equally damaged by the fire...it's just that the plastic shows the damage while the fibreglass is concealed. A Bullard fibreglass will not bubble and will appear as intact as the Cairns fibreglass.

    As I have said numerous times, the physical appearance of the shell does not determine its integrity. And if you are damaging "numerous" helmets, you might want to reconsider your live burn policies.
    My comments are sometimes educated, sometimes informed and sometimes just blowing smoke...but they are always mine and mine alone and do not reflect upon anyone else (especially my employer).

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemanjb
    You're comparing thermoplastic helmets to fibreglass helmets, which is unfair. Both helmets were equally damaged by the fire...it's just that the plastic shows the damage while the fibreglass is concealed. A Bullard fibreglass will not bubble and will appear as intact as the Cairns fibreglass.

    As I have said numerous times, the physical appearance of the shell does not determine its integrity. And if you are damaging "numerous" helmets, you might want to reconsider your live burn policies.
    Jonathan,
    In defense of Numbir39. I have attended the same live burns. In most cases it is a matter of the short duration that the trainees are in the heat. Often the case is that the student has a "problem" and stands up to quickly exit the structure. All live burn training is conducted in non-combustible training facilities and using class A materials. I believe that numerous is a relative term. I do remember some helmets both fiberglass and thermoplastic getting some damage. I also know some instructors that were in the same burn with no damage due to their proximity to the floor.
    Your points on the material of helmet construction are noted and accepted though.
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Firefighter
    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

  3. #28
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    if your going to wear a contemporary helmet why bother wearing one at all their gawdawful ugly and to me offers alot less protection from hotwater and what not on the back brim. at least with a traditional helmet it protects your neck

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemanjb
    If you're worried about the eagle getting caught, then you should be wearing a contemporary helmet.
    I am not worried about it because the chances are less likely for that situation to occur because of the helmet I wear. I was just pointing out what I have heard, seen, and what could happen.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ehs7554
    The problem I have with the Ben 2 and other non-cairns traditioanl style helmets is the brass finial or eagle. Should the leather front piece become dislodged or shrink in high heat (this has ben discussed before) you could have an isolated problem with hangeing wires or debris getting caught easier with these helmets(granted the probabilitly is low for this to occur), between the the leather and brass piece in question. Here are some pics of a Cairns leather, a 1010, and a Ben 2. Granted you could get caught up with the cairns but the ben 2 and similar helmts pose a greater risk.
    The pictures you have provided show absolutely nothing. I do however know what your are talking about and you could have the same problem with any brand helmet when the front shrinks and there is space in between the top of the front and the finial.

    The easiest fix for this problem is to remove the front, drill new holes, and reinstall the front firmly in the finial like it is supposed to be, or get a new shield.

    Additionally, our department just got all new Ben II's. The have come equippped with a piece of metal behind the front that will fill any gap as the front shrinks and will prevent any wire from becoming entangled as you describe. I don't know if this is standard, or something our department asked for, but its a pretty good idea.


    Last edited by MemphisE34a; 09-13-2006 at 06:00 PM.
    RK
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    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by numbir39
    I help instruct firefighter I & II classess here in my county, usually as the fire tender in live burns. I have seen numerous bullard helmets bubble, and melt in the same heat as cairns helmets. The cairns lids are always fine. Go with Cairns and You will not be sorry. Also, as said before, Ebay has some really great deals. Or go here www.thefirestore.com they usually have the best prices and sometimes have sales.

    Just my 2 round Lincoln's

    P.S. Whatever you do get the PBI earlaps instead of the Nomex, it holds up better and offers you more protection, and is harder to burn through!

    Stay Safe
    Be carefull with the firestore though. A a guy I knew got a helmet there because it was the lowest price, and it showed up without an eagle or faceshield. Make sure you know exactly what you are getting before you buy

  7. #32
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    Benny II all the way!

    Wears like a baseball cap it is so comfortable.
    Jason Knecht
    Assistant Chief
    Altoona Fire Dept.
    Altoona, WI

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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a
    The pictures you have provided show absolutely nothing. I do however know what your are talking about and you could have the same problem with any brand helmet when the front shrinks and there is space in between the top of the front and the finial.

    The easiest fix for this problem is to remove the front, drill new holes, and reinstall the front firmly in the finial like it is supposed to be, or get a new shield.

    Additionally, our department just got all new Ben II's. The have come equippped with a piece of metal behind the front that will fill any gap as the front shrinks and will prevent any wire from becoming entangled as you describe. I don't know if this is standard, or something our department asked for, but its a pretty good idea.


    Thanks for the closer picture. It looks like you guys figured out a relatively easy fix for the problem.

  9. #34
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    i personally own a new bullard ustm6 and i love it. not everyone is the same and not all helmets fit the same. so my advise is go try on a few and see which works for you.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1835Wayne
    Leather forever young man!!!! Cairns N6A or N5A depending on your states regulations.........

    It will last you the rest of your career barring getting run over........

    Same here

    Its a personal preference and for me only a leather Cairns will do it.

    Skin on your head......you bet!
    TecRsq
    North Georgia

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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a
    The pictures you have provided show absolutely nothing. I do however know what your are talking about and you could have the same problem with any brand helmet when the front shrinks and there is space in between the top of the front and the finial.

    The easiest fix for this problem is to remove the front, drill new holes, and reinstall the front firmly in the finial like it is supposed to be, or get a new shield.

    Additionally, our department just got all new Ben II's. The have come equippped with a piece of metal behind the front that will fill any gap as the front shrinks and will prevent any wire from becoming entangled as you describe. I don't know if this is standard, or something our department asked for, but its a pretty good idea.


    I gotta be honest Lou. This was and has been one of our largest complaints about these low big garbage plastic lids the city is using. Originally we switched to the Ben I which didn't have this defect...however once they discontinued this model the city dutifully switched to the Ben II along with it's inherant design flaw.

    This year at our Union convention the salesmen were very quick with this new "stop gap" measure as they knew we are getting fed up with the low quality and **** poor craftsman ship of the Ben II. If our cops had caps that broke apart and fell apart as these do they would all recieve command disipline for poor appearance. One problem with this hole set up is that it is an attempt at correcting a poor design. I'm not normally concerned with looks but todays lids not only don't hold the chocks and lights as the old lids did but they also look like poor replicas of "lifetime channel 8pm movie extras". In short our men's gear not only performs like sh*t but looks like sh*t too.

    The clip you show relies on the eagle being secure in place and the bolts that secure this finial in place are notorious for comming undone and loosening to the point that there is usually only one securing the finial to the helmet. Many guys I know remove the eagle or grind it down...not the best option but certainly better than the alternative.

    For a century my department looked sharp and had a solid helmet to rely on (even after the Feds got their fingers into it)...saddly some idiots with dollar signs sold the men short with this move.

    When compared with what this helmet replaced...the whole package of finial, craftsmanship, a suspension that doesn't break every year and a front that doesn't shrink as bad and has a ribbed backing plate (as opposed to the useless flat strip on the MP ones) this is a poor attempt at a firemans helmet.

    I wore a Ben II for over 4 years....never again.

    JMHO.

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 09-13-2006 at 08:59 PM.

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    Fred,

    I can't say that I disagree with you. I in fact, wear a leather myself. My intent was only to show that an attempt was made by Morning Pride to address the issues of the gap that can be created between the front and the finial if the front shrinks due to heat while using their product.

    As far as tactical tupperware goes, the Ben II is one of the most popular. I have never, ever heard anything good about Bullard.

    In the long run, I am with you - leather forever.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  13. #38
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    All this talk about helmets and I'm not even sure who's brand I'm wearing....
    I'll have to go look when I get back. Seems to be a nice lid though; conventional look, fiber-glass construction, decent suspension, and comfortable as far as I'm concerned. Not as lite as the tubberwear crap, but not as heavy as a well made leather. Have had worse and have had better.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    Does anyone have a picture of a Ben I? I was just curious to see the differences.

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    ehs,

    If I remember correctly, the original Ben I looked much the same, but was heavier and had some kind of neoprene covering on it to make it appear more like a leather. It actually just looked like a helmet with a neoprene cover and I guess was quickly disbanded because of the extra weight that it added for no benefit.
    Last edited by MemphisE34a; 09-15-2006 at 12:16 PM.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a
    ehs,

    If I remember correctly, the original Ben I looked much the same, but was havier and hard some kind of neoprene covering on it to make it appear more like a leather. It actually looked like it had a neoprene cover and I guess was quickly disbanded because of the extra weight that it added for no benefit.
    You are correct Loo, It was a solid helmet and I wore one for about 6 months after a broke my first Ben II! (thats right the d#mn thing cracked on me) Little heavy but ok nonetheless. The other major difference was it had an actual finial similar to the old Cairns New Yorkers. Not that cast eagle with the large gap. For whatever reason they stoped making that...probably to save $0.03 on production costs!

    FTM-PTB

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